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Thread: Very real bugs in Raring

  1. #31
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by exploder View Post
    Kind of silly to me to be in a development forum complaining about bugs. At this stage of development I just expect them. People have to understand that different things are developed at different rates, so you can not expect all the bugs to be fixed overnight.
    Where did you get the word "complaining?"

    I wrote something, and replied to others, that's all.

    In this development forum, we talk about what's happening with Raring. 3D windows and animation-addons are not that special to me, but I mentioned them, as they can be fully implemented in Precise, but not on the transit Quantal, and in Raring daily. That's all. The real bug is the Apport matter, which is annoying, and if we disable it, we won't get an info on a real crash.

    When, the discussion went on, I said that, if the compiz variant used in Raring is unstable by own words of the Compiz developers, then the Unity would be unstable. I looked into the unity file in the /usr/bin in Precise, Quantal and Raring. It is the same in size. There are unity 2D files in both Quantal and Raring, but are not the same as in Precise.

    The Unity launcher and Dash in Unity 2D and in Unity are the same. If the Unity 2D files are in Raring, as in Precise, they could be used to get at the Unity launcher and Dash, and could be used with any WM and any panel. The unstable Compiz 0.9.x is not needed, if you don't want desktop effects.

    The so-called Unity 3D needs Compiz, and the one used is the unstable one. This is what the Compiz devs say;

    Compiz is a compositing window manager that utilizes modern graphics drivers for X on the Linux desktop. As such, it could potentially trigger problems in X or related drivers. You should take caution when using Compiz. You probably wouldn't want to install is on important production machines, such as servers, business workstations or other systems where uptime is crucial. It is however, suitable for normal desktop use. In the event that Compiz causes system failure or data loss, you will need to know how to recover your system. The 0.8.x version of compiz is stable and mostly feature complete in the sense that it is less likely to fail and currently recieving only maintenance updates. The 0.9.x version of compiz is in an unstable state, which means it is more likely to exhibit bugs and crashes.
    So, if you are using Unity 3D, and it needs Compiz, then you are using a unstable distribution, whether it is Precise, Quantal or Raring. That's all I had to say. And, when people replied, I replied too. That's all there is to it.

    I am not complaining. I never do. Period!

    I always find a way out. If I need, I know how to get at Dash to work for me without Unity 3D. I just wanted to know, what others think of these matters, but I found only those, who are ready for a fight, just for the sake. Even, your comment is such.

    Now, that most of you caught the keyword "Compiz", and went on writing about it, I wrote a bit more about that. I can live without the Compiz variant issued by Ubuntu and still have a stable installation. All my installations, Precise, Quantal and Raring are stable. No crashes whatsoever!

    I write about something, I don't write complains, so drop the famous American word complain.

    I am open to other people's thinking, but not to whining. Can you refute anything I wrote, really refute?

    Good day!

    Ch

    PS: What would happen, in your thinking, if you install the Gnome-panel, and then completely un-install Unity, Compiz from your Precise, Quantal or Raring installation, would it stop working?
    Last edited by Chdslv; December 16th, 2012 at 05:43 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    My 10 cent's

    If Compiz is that good, why does everyone else not use it ?

    I'm sure if compiz was the best compositing window manager (read fastest and lowest on resources) every other distro would be building their 'shell' as a compiz-plugin like Unity.

    That seems not to be the case, and you may ask yourselves why ??

  3. #33
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
    My 10 cent's

    If Compiz is that good, why does everyone else not use it ?

    I'm sure if compiz was the best compositing window manager (read fastest and lowest on resources) every other distro would be building their 'shell' as a compiz-plugin like Unity.

    That seems not to be the case, and you may ask yourselves why ??
    Good question!

    Isn't that why Unity is going on the wrong track?

  4. #34
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Greetings,
    Original by Chdslv
    One can disable Apport problem by disabling it, but then one would never know, if there is a real problem later.
    Great thread to all! I don't think that the Apport (and results) is instructive to most end users. It should not have persisted into the Precise LTS. I can see it's usefulness to developers in the unstable versions, so far as problem solving is concerned.
    It has been minimal in 13.04 for me thus far. The rest of this thread deals with paradigm shifts and one's tolerance for change. Certainly we don't have square tires but we do have alternative means of moving mass where round tires perform poorly. How about the guy that fears winged flight much less rocket powered motivation. Unity and Compiz are a paradigm and I have witnessed the struggle of many to move on from their comfort zone into a new idea. Many adapted and are pleased with the results. Others still wish it would go away.
    For my part I like what I have in RR 13.04 so much that I just want to go along for the ride. Its like not being a gamer but putting Half Life in "treat me tender" mode and just going for the experience with graphics and the few bad guys left over.
    I was pleased pink with Maverick and Gnome2, thought it was a rocket of a system, that doesn't even compare to RR. RR is a whole new paradigm for me and I love it!

    rrnbtter
    Life is good! Live it to the Ubuntu-ist!

    PS: I do think this thread is instructional regarding the horrors of mounds of code, the complex involvement of architecture and the arena of ideas.
    Last edited by rrnbtter; December 16th, 2012 at 07:31 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Excuse me, but I do not see how this

    Isn't that why Unity is going on the wrong track?
    follows that

    I'm sure if compiz was the best compositing window manager (read fastest and lowest on resources) every other distro would be building their 'shell' as a compiz-plugin like Unity.
    Is Compiz limiting the design of Unity? How would Unity be improved if Compiz was the fastest and lowest on resources compositing window manager?

    Not that I know the track that Unity is on. Except as the Unified User Interface for all kinds of devices. The test of Unity being on the right track will come during the next year and a bit.

    Will we see Ubuntu on all kinds of devices? Will the non-computer type users find the interface usable on these devices? Or will the market be too crowded or be going in another direction?

    Regards.

    P.S. Hands up all those who know what a 'paradigm' is and can pronounce it.
    Last edited by grahammechanical; December 16th, 2012 at 07:34 PM.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  6. #36
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    Isn't that why Unity is going on the wrong track?
    Unity as a UI or 'shell' is a very good and intuitive UI, but it lack's on customization and IMHO it has a lot of disturbing 'lenses'.

    A UI should not 'get in the way' and steal the users attention, I think Unity does that a bit.

    Building unity as a compiz-plugin is IMHO plain wrong and that's why Ubuntu has lost it's appeal and why other distros like Mint, OpenSUSE and Mageia are gaining a lot of users.
    You just can't 'make up' for that by applying another (useless) lense or a fancy icon theme.

    IMHO You have to rethink the whole concept !

  7. #37
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Greetings,

    Original by Stinger
    IMHO You have to rethink the whole concept !
    Meaning changing "paradigm", pronounced (pair uh dime), definition (new understanding and experience with reality).

    rrnbtter
    Life is good! Live it to the Ubuntu-ist!

  8. #38
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by rrnbtter View Post
    Greetings,

    Original by Stinger
    Meaning changing "paradigm", pronounced (pair uh dime), definition (new understanding and experience with reality).

    rrnbtter
    Life is good! Live it to the Ubuntu-ist!
    Ah! A thank you from this old cockney who failed his English exams almost 50 years ago. And has been struggling to understand his own language ever since.

    Can we all agree that anyone upgrading from 10.04 to 12.04 or later will indeed experience a new reality? Would there be those alternative Unity realities if it were not for Unity?

    Regards.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  9. #39
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by grahammechanical View Post
    Can we all agree that anyone upgrading from 10.04 to 12.04 or later will indeed experience a new reality?
    Agreed, no one can ague with that
    Quote Originally Posted by grahammechanical View Post
    Would there be those alternative Unity realities if it were not for Unity?
    Yes of course there would, Unity has nothing to do with that, they all have their roots in touch-based smartphones.
    Unity does not have a patent on that 'paradigm' (gotcha rrnbtter )

  10. #40
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Greetings,
    Original by Stinger
    Unity does not have a patent on that 'paradigm' (gotcha rrnbtter )
    Original by rrnbtter
    RR is a whole new paradigm for me and I love it!
    The point made it this whole thread it that it's a matter of perspective. Paradigm is a personal reality perception. For some, smartphone is part of that perspective for others it is not and that is the problem. That leaves the question will Unity be the desktop that changes that desktop paradigm for the masses. I have to agree that it is a "wait and see". Remember Windows had a 30 year venture in paradigm shifts and there was a lot of hair pulling along the way. I know because I was there for it all. Linux has just as much right to that journey as anyone. There has to be free enterprise or we all are the losers. Unity is just one man's enterprise. Isn't it?

    rrnbtter
    Life is good! Live it to the Ubuntu-ist

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