Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Thread: Very real bugs in Raring

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Beans
    228

    Very real bugs in Raring

    Some are actually programs supposed to help the user, but are real bugs.

    The apport problem: the never ending crash reports is a bug, which the Ubuntu devs had not looked at. It is annoying. One can disable Apport problem by disabling it, but then one would never know, if there is a real problem later.

    The Compiz matter: The plugins Precise had, neither Quantal or Raring has. There is no Annimation-addon and you can't use the 3D windows add on. In the development fervour, these had been disabled or made not to work, most probably the latter. When you develop and something goes missing, then it is a bug.

    The Nautilus matter: Dual panes had been taken off the new nautilus, but Ubuntu should've given us the better, but old nautilus with the F3 option. There is no special need to abide by the ideas of the Gnome 3 devs, if the main UI is Unity for Ubuntu, so not allowing the "old" Nautilus to be installed is a system-wide bug. One might try to install the SolusOS patched nautilus, but that's not the answer. Nautilus 3.4.2 should be in the repos as a variant. This is a Raring case.

    The Grub setup matter: It was pretty easy in Precise. You simply did sudo grub-seup /dev/sda, but in Raring (and in Quantal) this had been taken off. The only solution to set the Grub is by using a ppa, Yannubuntu's Boot-repair. Or else reinstall grub-pc.

    Well, what do you think? Do you see any other bugs? The real annoying ones?

    Seriously, Raring is better than Quantal or Precise. All these days, Ubuntu had warned us not to use the coming release on production machines, but that warning is now gone and you can download a daily, which is good as the devs are now very sure of their distro.

    In my case, I don't think that Unity is a necessary evil to live with. I don't ever use Unity and search for other UIs. I've found one, an old one, which is practically discarded, because of its universality, one that has no binding with a given WM or DE. (Devs appear to be unhappy with universal applications, so the go looking for others, such as Gnome-shell, Unity, Cinnamon...and taking away the right-click...)

    When an ability is taken away, the whole thing becomes a bug.
    Last edited by Chdslv; December 16th, 2012 at 03:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Left Coast of the USA
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Kubuntu

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    The "Compiz matter" is not a bug. What you mention is a feature that has been shelved because three guys can't keep it all up. That's not "development furvour". It's triage.

    If you want the "bug" fixed, get in touch with Sam and offer to maintain the code. He has asked for volunteers to do just that.

    A lot of similar things have disappeared from KWin for ATI users because ATI hasn't bothered to move past OpenGL 1.4 and Martin and crew just can't maintain two code bases. They had to cut ATI loose.

    It is not a "bug" when features you like disappear. That happens because of conscious decisions based on considerations you may not be aware of.

    Apport, yes. The other two are not bugs.
    Last edited by QIII; December 16th, 2012 at 04:13 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Beans
    228

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by QIII View Post
    The "Compiz matter" is not a bug. What you mention is a feature that has been shelved because three guys can't keep it all up. That's not "development furvour". It's triage.

    If you want the "bug" fixed, get in touch with Sam and offer to maintain the code.
    If it works in my Precise installation, and won't in the Raring one, then it is a bug.
    The base became "developed" without some abilities.

    When, you buy a new mobile, you simply change the sim, don't you?

    I've installed a Natty application from a deb package in Precise, Quantal and Raring, but cannot install the "old" Compiz and the "old" Nautilus, so it is a system-wide bug. The "development" had brought in minuses.
    Last edited by Chdslv; December 16th, 2012 at 04:01 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Left Coast of the USA
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Kubuntu

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    No. It is not a bug. It is a feature that has been deprecated. It is not a matter of development that broke something. It is a matter of development that was shelved due to lack of resources. It's not like a sim card.

    You should try to maintain complex software with too little time and too few resources sometime.

    See how you like it when you are told you aren't working hard enough.

    Give Martin or Sam a call. Let them know they don't know what they are doing and you want to take charge -- pro bono.
    Last edited by QIII; December 16th, 2012 at 04:23 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Beans
    228

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by QIII View Post
    No. It is not a bug. It is a feature that has been deprecated. It is not a matter of development that broke something. It is s matter of development that was shelved due to lack of resources. It not like a sim card.
    A good feature had been deprecated?! Well, that's bug, because in the "development" fervour, the devs couldn't find enough lines to put in the code.

    See how you like it when you are told you aren't working hard enough.
    That's not a problem. In life you have to work hard, and it is not always enough.

    Give Martin or Sam a call. Let them know they don't know what they are doing and you want to take charge -- pro bono.
    It works in Precise, so it is Ubuntu devs problem, not someone else's. The base is Ubuntu's not Compiz devs. In the never ending 'development" fervour, they had missed something. What, if the same "old" Compiz is included, and not the "new" one? I've a feeling that the "new" Compiz works just as well as the "old" one in Precise.

    Anyway, I am not going to argue with you on this matter, as Raring had not being released yet.

    By the way, can you "grub-setup" in the new raring? Can you change to the "old" Nautilus? Mind you, Precise is LTS and there you'd always have the "old" Nautilus till 2017, but you can't have it in Raring, which would end life before that.

    So, these are base bugs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Beans
    228

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Thought I might download nautilus 3.4.2 from my Precise installation and try to install it in Raring. This is what I got;

    dependency problems prevent configuration of nautilus:
    nautilus depends on libgnome-desktop-3-2 (>= 3.2.0); however:
    Package libgnome-desktop-3-2 is not installed.
    nautilus depends on liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-1 (>= 0.1.17); however:
    Package liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-1 is not installed.
    nautilus depends on nautilus-data (<< 1:3.5); however:
    Version of nautilus-data on system is 1:3.6.3-0ubuntu3
    So, the nautilus-data is blocking the installation of the "old' Nautilus. Of course, there is a way around that, change the nautilus-data, install the dependencies, use apt-get -f install.

    dpkg: error processing nautilus (--install):
    dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
    Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
    Processing triggers for bamfdaemon ...
    Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/bamf.index...
    Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
    Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0:amd64 ...
    No such key `computer-icon-visible' in schema `org.gnome.nautilus.desktop' as specified in override file `/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/10_nautilus.gschema.override'; ignoring override for this key.
    Processing triggers for man-db ...
    Errors were encountered while processing:
    nautilus
    Some other things missing/changed.

    This is not an upstream matter, but the Ubuntu devs decided to use the "new" Nautilus and by doing so, disallowed F3 dual panes.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Williams Lake
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    Some are actually programs supposed to help the user, but are real bugs.

    The apport problem: the never ending crash reports is a bug, which the Ubuntu devs had not looked at. It is annoying. One can disable Apport problem by disabling it, but then one would never know, if there is a real problem later.
    Apport is always turned on during the development cycle, if you find it to annoying, you can turn it off in /etc/default/apport, and setting it to zero:

    Code:
    enabled=0
    The Compiz matter: The plugins Precise had, neither Quantal or Raring has. There is no Annimation-addon and you can't use the 3D windows add on. In the development fervour, these had been disabled or made not to work, most probably the latter. When you develop and something goes missing, then it is a bug.
    The compiz plugins are orphaned, and no longer have a devloper, meaning that when a new version of compiz is released, the plugins aren't updated to work with the new version. You are welcome to take over maintaining them, as they are open source, and anyone can modify the code

    The Nautilus matter: Dual panes had been taken off the new nautilus, but Ubuntu should've given us the better, but old nautilus with the F3 option. There is no special need to abide by the ideas of the Gnome 3 devs, if the main UI is Unity for Ubuntu, so not allowing the "old" Nautilus to be installed is a system-wide bug. One might try to install the SolusOS patched nautilus, but that's not the answer. Nautilus 3.4.2 should be in the repos as a variant. This is a Raring case.
    If you feel this is a bug, you should report it upstream to the gnome developers at Gnome Bugzilla

    The Grub setup matter: It was pretty easy in Precise. You simply did sudo grub-seup /dev/sda, but in Raring (and in Quantal) this had been taken off. The only solution to set the Grub is by using a ppa, Yannubuntu's Boot-repair. Or else reinstall grub-pc.
    I don't think I've used grup-setup since grub legacy, we now use install-grub and update grub:

    Code:
    sudo grub install /dev/sdX && sudo update-grub
    where /dev/sdX is where you want to install grub

    Well, what do you think? Do you see any other bugs? The real annoying ones?

    Seriously, Raring is better than Quantal or Precise. All these days, Ubuntu had warned us not to use the coming release on production machines, but that warning is now gone and you can download a daily, which is good as the devs are now very sure of their distro.
    Raring is still in development, and will be until April, it can still can and will break, be sure you have a fallback installtion, just in case Raring becomes unusable. There are several major bugs still floating around, especially the one where many of us are still stuck on the 3.5 kernel because our AMD cpu powered systems won't boot anything newer, and just tonight, I managed to break my Raring install on my netbook, by doing updates.

    In my case, I don't think that Unity is a necessary evil to live with. I don't ever use Unity and search for other UIs. I've found one, an old one, which is practically discarded, because of its universality, one that has no binding with a given WM or DE. (Devs appear to be unhappy with universal applications, so the go looking for others, such as Gnome-shell, Unity, Cinnamon...and taking away the right-click...)

    When an ability is taken away, the whole thing becomes a bug
    Ubuntu has always and always will be gnome based, so where gnome goes, so does Ubuntu.

    Note this is my second attempt at this post, as some forum glitch screwed up the formatting on the previous version, so if you saw the other one, you weren't seeing things.
    Last edited by cariboo907; December 16th, 2012 at 05:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Beans
    13,447

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    Thought I might download nautilus 3.4.2 from my Precise installation and try to install it in Raring. This is what I got;
    Wrong release. if you want nautilus 3.4 in raring you'd use the quantal packages
    Whether they remain viable thru release, don't know, you could likely build if need be.

    (personally don't miss 3.4 at all

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Beans
    228

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by cariboo907 View Post
    Apport is always turned on during the development cycle, if you find it to annoying, you canturn it off in /etc/default/apport, and setting it to zero:

    Code:
    enabled=0
    This I know and been done as the first thing after installation.

    The compiz plugins are orphaned, and no longer have a devloper, meaning that when a new version of compiz is released, the plugins aren't updated to work with the new version. You are welcome to take over maintaining them, as they are open source, and anyone can modify the code
    I don't want to maintain them. If the Compiz plugins are orphaned, and the earlier ones are good, why not use them, rather than the orphaned ones?

    If you feel this is a bug, you should report it upstream to the gnome developers at Gnome Bugzilla
    They don't produce Ubuntu.

    I don't think I've used grup-setup since grub legacy, we now use install-grub and update grub:

    Code:
    sudo grub install /dev/sdX && sudo update-grub
    where /dev/sdX is where you want to install grub
    Grub-setup works with Precise, and Precise's grub-pc is different from Quantal's and Raring's, and the only help is Boot-repair. It was pretty simple in Precise, if you ever have a grub-rescue problem.

    Raring is still in development, and will be until April, it can still can and will break, be sure you have a fallback installation, just in case Raring becomes unusable.
    Raring had been good to me. I had installations upgraded from Precise, and it never broke, only that way, I could keep Nautilus 3.4.2. I always have a Precise installation, and my home is somewhere else.

    There are several major bugs still floating around, especially the one where many of us are still stuck on the 3.5 kernel because out AMD cpu powered systems won't boot anything newer, and just tonight, I managed to break my Raring install on my netbook, by doing updates.
    I have a small program, which downloads everything, before installing, and it asks whether yes or no. You can find it somewhere in Web Up8 or Noobslab. Its called apt-fast. It uses Apt, and you can do different downloads in different Terminals and use Synaptic too at the same time.

    Ubuntu has always and always will be gnome based, so where gnome goes, so does Ubuntu.
    That I agree, but Ubuntu has its own mind too.

    Note this is my second attempt at this post, as some forum glitch screwed up the formatting on the previous version, so if you saw the other one, you weren't seeing things.
    Yes, bugs around us...

    I am using a Natty application, and it is universal, not worried about the bases. The idea is, if it works, don't change it. In this every 6 month "development" fervour, the devs makes mistakes in trying to re-invent the wheel, and trying to make a square wheel.

    If Ikey could do wonders with the "old" Nautilus, why can't the Ubuntu devs? Ikey's patched Nautilus is in the Ubuntu repos and using Web Up8's ppa, you can install that "old" Nautilus.

    Take care!

    Ch

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Left Coast of the USA
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Kubuntu

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    They don't produce Ubuntu.
    Wrong way around. Canonical doesn't produce it. Your concerns need to be communicated upstream to those who do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    A good feature had been deprecated?! Well, that's bug, because in the "development" fervour, the devs couldn't find enough lines to put in the code.

    That's not a problem. In life you have to work hard, and it is not always enough.
    Deprecation of a feature is not a bug. "Bug" has a very specific meaning in my profession, and that is not it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    I don't want to maintain them. If the Compiz plugins are orphaned, and the earlier ones are good, why not use them, rather than the orphaned ones?
    Because something worked with a previous version of Ubuntu does not mean it will in a newer version. Ubuntu changes. The APIs change because basic parts of the OS have. Usually developers of things like Compiz have to constantly move to keep up. Happens to me all the time as the world changes. If you don't have the resources to maintain everything, you make choices.

    In any case, you are welcome to express your displeasure to the Compiz developers. Don't send your email to Canonical for the Ubuntu developers. It's NOT on them. Compiz does not belong to Canonical and it is the developers of Compiz who removed the features.

    Compiz developers != Ubuntu developers.

    http://www.compiz.org/

    Sam has a blog. You might be interested in this particular entry:

    http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2012/...orted-plugins/

    Let him know your concerns and how you would suggest addressing them.

    As I said, the KWin developers have made similar choices. It wouldn't do much good to contact the Fedora, Kubuntu or OpenSUSE developers to complain about Martin deprecating some functionality for users of KWin and ATI graphics cards. None of them owns KDE.

    Canonical owns Unity, but not Compiz.

    You are correct. There is no need to argue. I don't believe you understand how this all fits together, so you are barking up the wrong tree. Unlike Windows, where Microsoft controls the whole code stack, Linux does not work that way.

    Drive on. Happy holidays.
    Last edited by QIII; December 16th, 2012 at 07:31 AM.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •