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Thread: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

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  1. #1
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    Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Before i start this off, this is NOT a hate thread for any desktop environment. To the mods, i know that there have been many discussions about various DE's recently but i'd hope this is different.

    With all the hate for various DE's, why are people still criticising the move away from Gnome 2 when there is Mate? Is there something wrong with it? Does it not live up to gnome 2? I'm just curious as to what people who complain about unity and gnome shell are using if they are giving out so much about them.

    I really enjoy all DE's. I actually find it hard to fault any, if you realise what they are aimed towards. I think they all have something great to offer.

    So my main question really is, if people are giving out about the new DE's, what are they using and if they aren't cutting it, why are they still criticising the newer ones?

  2. #2
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    I have no idea tbh,Unity is pretty nice IMO, and for the people that really hate it.... XFCE is a really nice alternative these days...

  3. #3
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    a DE is subjective, there is no good or bad or right or wrong, only peoples opinion and everyone has got one

    for me KDE all the way if hardware is good
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    I've been using MATE for about six months or so, and I'm starting to notice "cracks" (for the lack of a better word) in the shell. This may just actually be a problem with Linux Mint (and its Ubuntu base) itself, but when I updated to 14, most of my indicators were gone because the packages had been removed from the Ubuntu repositories. I would imagine that if MATE wants to maintain a GNOME 2-like appearance, they'd grab these packages and maintain them themselves.

    Also, I was kind of hoping there'd be some actual development with Caja. Back in the old GNOME 2 days, I used Nautilus-Elementary, because it had a much nicer interface and some additional features I liked. Caja doesn't really seem to offer much beyond the classic Nautilus experience.

  5. #5
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    I've installed Linux Mint14 on two older desktop machines. It runs pretty well. One thing to get used to is that the names of all of the common packages have changed to avoid packaging conflicts.

    For a file manager, you would fire up Nautilus, but in Mate it is called caja.

    There are sound technical reasons for changing the names and over time mate and gnome3 will drift apart, but that is OK. Mate runs well and it has an active development community. Think of it as a classic car with new parts and a bunch of gearheads tinkering with it.

    If you want that shiny, plastic, econobox, then go with Unity--now with ecoboost. If you prefer the classic lines and the power of the older cars, then go with Mate.
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Mate is being improved and is not simply a re-branding of Gnome 2 as far as I understood . This is wonderful for those who would like a Gnome 2 style environment. I have also read that Mate is based on pure Gnome 2 and so it is slightly different than the Ubuntu desktop version of Gnome 2.
    Last edited by Frogs Hair; December 15th, 2012 at 02:51 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by haqking View Post
    a DE is subjective, there is no good or bad or right or wrong, only peoples opinion and everyone has got one

    for me KDE all the way if hardware is good
    Sorry, I just don't think this is right. Listen - back in the early 90's, I was using DOS apps. Lotus, WP, that db app, I forget the name, the graphics presentation app - "Harvard graphics?" Win was around in pre 3.0 - and way ugly. Win 3 started to get traction.

    WHY? Because all the rest of those guys, as smart as they all were, just "didn't get it". We KNOW this is true, because the history of the marketplace is VERY clear on this! Sure, MS used nasty and unfair marketing, but, just like Lance Armstrong (I am NOT a fan - I have been an unfan of Lance for many years, but he did win, and he won by cheating, just like Microsoft), they didn't start with a donkey (he also had to be close to the top echelon of riders for the cheating to work)! If all those DOS mfrs had gotten together and said "Ok, we will ALL use these Fkey meanings, and these keyboard shortcuts" - so that they were standardized - Windows might never have happened. But they didn't. They wouldn't. I wrote letters to them, back then, about this. The whole reason Windows worked, and got bought by the end-user - was because it was A) standardized, and B) you could figure it out by cruising around with the mouse.

    In the meantime, and in between these times, we've had lots of people shouting "it should be this way!" and other people shouting "it should be that way!" And, now Ubuntu is betting that Unity is the "It should be that way!" for the future. Well, look at the usage stats. Where does unity stack up compared to where Ubuntu was before Unity? Where does gnome3 stack up compared to where it was as gnome2? Uhhh- oooh. Those stats are down, aren't they. Hmmm, maybe time to rethink?

    Ok, for you guys saying MATE is dead because of GTK3? You're missing the point. The end-user doesn't give a good poop about GTK3. Now, maybe cinammon, which is the gnome3 de with a gnome2 interface, may become the next big thing. Might happen. But right now, it isn't.

    Which tells me that gnome missed the boat. And so does Unity. Afaic, unity is looking at the same operational dynamics in the user environment that are part of what drove gnome 3. Afaic, they both fail. Fine for a smart phone - actually preferable there - but not ok to try and make that environment work on the de. And usage stats are bearing this out.

    You know, maybe changing the paradigm, a la gnome3 or unity, isn't the best idea. Maybe those big brains at the top need to go back to listening school, and then go to the market and listen. We need to respect what has been learned before - and Win XP and 7 DO represent learning about the marketplace, no matter how much we want to deny it. Menus work. They work because the users can figure them out. An anonymous search block with no guidance may NOT work. Sure, if you want Word or the equivalent, you'll get a hit. But what about when you want to compare the contents of two directories? What do you search on? Is it clear enough now?

  8. #8
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbuell View Post
    Sorry, I just don't think this is right. Listen - back in the early 90's, I was using DOS apps. Lotus, WP, that db app, I forget the name, the graphics presentation app - "Harvard graphics?" Win was around in pre 3.0 - and way ugly. Win 3 started to get traction.

    WHY? Because all the rest of those guys, as smart as they all were, just "didn't get it". We KNOW this is true, because the history of the marketplace is VERY clear on this! Sure, MS used nasty and unfair marketing, but, just like Lance Armstrong (I am NOT a fan - I have been an unfan of Lance for many years, but he did win, and he won by cheating, just like Microsoft), they didn't start with a donkey (he also had to be close to the top echelon of riders for the cheating to work)! If all those DOS mfrs had gotten together and said "Ok, we will ALL use these Fkey meanings, and these keyboard shortcuts" - so that they were standardized - Windows might never have happened. But they didn't. They wouldn't. I wrote letters to them, back then, about this. The whole reason Windows worked, and got bought by the end-user - was because it was A) standardized, and B) you could figure it out by cruising around with the mouse.

    In the meantime, and in between these times, we've had lots of people shouting "it should be this way!" and other people shouting "it should be that way!" And, now Ubuntu is betting that Unity is the "It should be that way!" for the future. Well, look at the usage stats. Where does unity stack up compared to where Ubuntu was before Unity? Where does gnome3 stack up compared to where it was as gnome2? Uhhh- oooh. Those stats are down, aren't they. Hmmm, maybe time to rethink?

    Ok, for you guys saying MATE is dead because of GTK3? You're missing the point. The end-user doesn't give a good poop about GTK3. Now, maybe cinammon, which is the gnome3 de with a gnome2 interface, may become the next big thing. Might happen. But right now, it isn't.

    Which tells me that gnome missed the boat. And so does Unity. Afaic, unity is looking at the same operational dynamics in the user environment that are part of what drove gnome 3. Afaic, they both fail. Fine for a smart phone - actually preferable there - but not ok to try and make that environment work on the de. And usage stats are bearing this out.

    You know, maybe changing the paradigm, a la gnome3 or unity, isn't the best idea. Maybe those big brains at the top need to go back to listening school, and then go to the market and listen. We need to respect what has been learned before - and Win XP and 7 DO represent learning about the marketplace, no matter how much we want to deny it. Menus work. They work because the users can figure them out. An anonymous search block with no guidance may NOT work. Sure, if you want Word or the equivalent, you'll get a hit. But what about when you want to compare the contents of two directories? What do you search on? Is it clear enough now?
    I would love to see the stats that you're talking about.

  9. #9
    monkeybrain2012 is offline Grande Half-n-Half Cinnamon Ubuntu
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbuell View Post
    ..
    Ok, for you guys saying MATE is dead because of GTK3? You're missing the point. The end-user doesn't give a good poop about GTK3. Now, maybe cinammon, which is the gnome3 de with a gnome2 interface, may become the next big thing. Might happen. But right now, it isn't.

    Which tells me that gnome missed the boat. And so does Unity. Afaic, unity is looking at the same operational dynamics in the user environment that are part of what drove gnome 3. Afaic, they both fail. Fine for a smart phone - actually preferable there - but not ok to try and make that environment work on the de. And usage stats are bearing this out.

    You know, maybe changing the paradigm, a la gnome3 or unity, isn't the best idea. Maybe those big brains at the top need to go back to listening school, and then go to the market and listen. We need to respect what has been learned before - and Win XP and 7 DO represent learning about the marketplace, no matter how much we want to deny it. Menus work. They work because the users can figure them out. An anonymous search block with no guidance may NOT work. Sure, if you want Word or the equivalent, you'll get a hit. But what about when you want to compare the contents of two directories? What do you search on? Is it clear enough now? ..
    Actually, the people who complain most about missing the menu are not new users who can't find themselves around the "new paradigm", but people who are intermediate to advanced users who are too wedded to the xp-ish interface. Switching from Windows to Mac (a rather radical departure from the Xp styled desktop)doesn't present a lot of challenges to people who don't know much about computing, and I have seen many people who know next to nothing about computers becoming very proficient in navigating around tablets in a very short time.

    Now I am used to Unity and gnome 3 I actually find the menu rather inconvenient and cumbersome. I for one wouldn't miss the "classic" gnome2 desktop.

  10. #10
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbuell View Post

    You know, maybe changing the paradigm, a la gnome3 or unity, isn't the best idea. Maybe those big brains at the top need to go back to listening school, and then go to the market and listen.
    Eeerm, I think I can prove that the big brains do listen

    Regarding Gnome itself they are introducing an actual "classic mode" in version 3.8:

    http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/gnome...ssic-mode.html

    Regarding Ubuntu I believe Unity has been in the planning stages for a very, very long time. I very much doubt that they'll move away from that but Ubuntu provides a platform for many, many "flavors":

    Lubuntu
    Xubuntu
    Kubuntu
    Edubuntu
    Mythbuntu
    Ubuntu Studio

    And since their packages are in the 12.10 repos I fully expect Ubuntu-GNOME-Remix to become an official flavor (hopefully Gubuntu) within the next couple of dev cycles:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2073181

    So IMHO it's all about options, and Ubuntu provides a lot of them

    And Gnome has certainly been listening or they wouldn't be investing the resources in creating a new classic mode

    OTOH there's always room for one more remix, whether it's official or not, so Mate is more than welcome to do as they wish

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