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Thread: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

  1. #21
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    why port anything to gtk3? i have both installed right now and it's causing no problems. use gtk3 for new stuff but gtk2 for stuff that requires gtk2
    Whoever came up with the phrase "There is no such thing as a stupid question" obviously never had the internet.

  2. #22
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mamamia88 View Post
    why port anything to gtk3? i have both installed right now and it's causing no problems. use gtk3 for new stuff but gtk2 for stuff that requires gtk2
    1. Because eventually GTK2 will be dropped. Having both installed will not stay a long term solution.

    2. Because all the GTK applications will eventually be GTK3 and a desktop without applications is useless.

  3. #23
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    It's definitely better to load mate as the only desktop environment. It's designed for older desktops; it's less resource intensive; and it gets out of your way when you want to work.

    Loading mate over Unity or gnome-shell to try it out doesn't make sense and you could risk breakage.

    Try a clean install of mate to see its true power.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgalati4 View Post
    It's definitely better to load mate as the only desktop environment. It's designed for older desktops; it's less resource intensive; and it gets out of your way when you want to work.

    Loading mate over Unity or gnome-shell to try it out doesn't make sense and you could risk breakage.

    Try a clean install of mate to see its true power.
    AFAIK the closest you can get to a pure Mate DE with an Ubuntu base is Snowlinux 3, codename "White":

    http://www.snowlinux.de/587-download...inux-3-qwhiteq

    It's really quite well done but it does use it's own repo rather than the Mate repo, and most notably it uses "snowmenu" rather than the Mate main-menu but that's easily changed by editing the panel apps just as was done in Gnome 2.

    It also includes a gui app for editing "fstab" that I personally find troublesome but I dislike a gazillion gui apps that are provided to allow easy user editing of things that I think should require more thought .... I'm just anal like that

    But if someone wants to get a general feeling of what Mate is like on top of Ubuntu it's worth trying Snowlinux in a VM, or on a spare partition/drive if you're into multi-booting like I am

    Just remember there are both Mate and Cinnamon/Gnome3 versions which are NOT easily transformed.

    I'm working on an Ubuntu Quantal -> Quantal Mate conversion right now, but I know it's going to stink ...... NOT because of Mate, but because there are a lot of underlying problems in Quantal such as; opening Software Sources eating all available system resources, Totem is becoming more and more worthless due to it's dependence on OpenGL, grub menu entries are too long and yet sometimes leave out critical info, etc, etc.

    A lot of this is due to the BIG dev teams trying to keep up with hardware improvements, but at the same time they're throwing support for 3 to 7 year old hardware under the bus. OTOH the Metacity WM (renamed Marco in Mate) runs just as lightly as XFCE and almost as lightly as OpenBox

    So, given the facts at hand, I say MATE ON

  5. #25
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    What's with all this reinvention to portray Mate as a lightweight alternative? It is literally Gnome 2 in all but name, and Gnome 2 was never lauded as a lightweight. It was only considered light in comparison with KDE, and even that was much debated.

    Xfce and Openbox have not, to my knowledge, suddenly become bloated and slow in the 20 months or so since Gnome 3 came out. The comparison with Openbox, in particular, is laughable.

  6. #26
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinmchapman View Post
    What's with all this reinvention to portray Mate as a lightweight alternative? It is literally Gnome 2 in all but name, and Gnome 2 was never lauded as a lightweight. It was only considered light in comparison with KDE, and even that was much debated.

    Xfce and Openbox have not, to my knowledge, suddenly become bloated and slow in the 20 months or so since Gnome 3 came out. The comparison with Openbox, in particular, is laughable.
    Gnome 2 could be used either with Metacity or Compiz. With Metacity I always found it to run as light as XFCE and nearly as light as Openbox but there was really no reason to say anything

    Metacity was still available to run Unity-2D until Quantal when Ubuntu dropped Metacity in favor of using "compiz+llvmpipe":

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTIxMTg

    Now Gnome itself is going to drop Metacity in favor of Mutter+llvmpipe.

    Mint's Cinnamon flavor had already forked Mutter into Muffin to take up the slack but it just doesn't run as light as Metacity so they're now considering an Openbox version of Cinnamon!

    And we're not talking about prehistoric hardware. In my case I have an Intel Atom 230 @ 1.60GHz with i945 Graphics and 2GB of RAM that runs Ubuntu Quantal so maddeningly slow it's like rolling back to dial-up!

    OTOH both Lubuntu and Xubuntu are viable alternatives but if we choose to shut down discussion of metacity/marco then why not also argue that either XFCE or LXDE should give up the ghost

    Mate simply offers one more alternative and ATM they are the only ones offering a fork of Metacity

  7. #27
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    JohneG: To the mods, i know that there have been many discussions about various DE's recently
    haqking:a DE is subjective, there is no good or bad or right or wrong, only peoples opinion and everyone has got one

    So moved to recurring discussions.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by cariboo907 View Post
    Another problem with mate is that as more Ubuntu/Gnome packages get obsoleted/replaced, the mate devs are going to have to come up with replacements for them. Currently, there are 60+ dependant packages that get installed along with mate, as time goes on, and development stays with GTK2, there will need to be more and more old packages brought into the meta-package.
    I read that they're thinking about porting it to GTK3.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinmchapman View Post
    Mate is, and always has been, slowly dying. Mint hedged its bets and supported it while getting Cinnamon up and running. Cinnamon is clearly being actively developed and is based on current technologies. With time, it will acquire most of the Gnome 2 die-hards, and if Mint abandons ship, where else does it get support? If something major occurs in the underlying Linux infrastructure which Mate cannot easily cope with, it may die sooner.

    Additionally, as others have asked, and no-one has answered, what improvements have been introduced to Mate? It seems to me to be a static port of Gnome 2, living in the past.

    That is not to say it will suddenly vanish, but it will decrease in relevance as Cinnamon, Gnome 3, Unity and Xfce cover all the reasons for staying with Mate. Eventually it will be like the KDE3 fork, Trinity - just about alive but irrelevant, even in the small world of Linux.
    I agree with everything you said. They obviously care a lot more about Cinnamon. And why shouldn't they?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinmchapman View Post
    What's with all this reinvention to portray Mate as a lightweight alternative? It is literally Gnome 2 in all but name, and Gnome 2 was never lauded as a lightweight. It was only considered light in comparison with KDE, and even that was much debated.
    This is exactly right. The only reason for Mate at all is just to satisfy the hard heads that don't want to change. That's the only use for it. In my opinion, it's about as useful as people still trying to install Windows Longhorn.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinmchapman View Post
    What's with all this reinvention to portray Mate as a lightweight alternative? It is literally Gnome 2 in all but name, and Gnome 2 was never lauded as a lightweight. It was only considered light in comparison with KDE, and even that was much debated.
    I've been thinking the same thing for a while now, but haven't yet said it straight out. It's rather bizarre, for sure.

  10. #30
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    Re: Does mate desktop enviroment cut it? What's its future?

    Quote Originally Posted by VooDooSyxx View Post
    I've been thinking the same thing for a while now, but haven't yet said it straight out. It's rather bizarre, for sure.
    It's not bizarre at all, it's all about the window manager. Up through 12.04 you could use Ubuntu with either Compiz or Metacity, but beginning with 12.10 Ubuntu dropped Unity-2D and Metacity in favor of Compiz+llvmpipe.

    Beginning with version 3.8 Gnome is also dropping Metacity in favor of Mutter+llvmpipe so I'd expect Metacity to be dropped from the repos altogether in the 13.10 dev cycle, but that is just my best guess.

    Metacity runs much lighter than either Compiz or Mutter, in my experience almost as light as Xfce or Openbox, but Metacity will soon be history.

    Mate has forked a version of Metacity renamed Marco, and Mint is even considering an Openbox "fallback-mode" for Cinnamon to take up the slack.

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