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Thread: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

  1. #51
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    And beginning with Quantal the "footprint" for 'gnome-tweak-tool' is quite small:

    Code:
    lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
    [sudo] password for lance: 
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree       
    Reading state information... Done
    The following extra packages will be installed:
      gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gnomedesktop-3.0 gnome-shell-common
    The following NEW packages will be installed:
      gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gnomedesktop-3.0 gnome-shell-common
      gnome-tweak-tool
    0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
    Need to get 988 kB of archives.
    After this operation, 7,625 kB of additional disk space will be used.
    Whereas in Precise the footprint was quite large:

    Code:
    lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
    [sudo] password for lance: 
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree       
    Reading state information... Done
    The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
      libjpeg-turbo-progs libgle3 libjpeg-progs
    Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
    The following extra packages will be installed:
      gir1.2-accountsservice-1.0 gir1.2-caribou-1.0 gir1.2-clutter-1.0
      gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-folks-0.6
      gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gee-1.0 gir1.2-gjsdbus-1.0 gir1.2-gkbd-3.0
      gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-mutter-3.0 gir1.2-networkmanager-1.0
      gir1.2-telepathyglib-0.12 gir1.2-telepathylogger-0.2 gir1.2-upowerglib-1.0
      gir1.2-xkl-1.0 gjs gnome-contacts gnome-icon-theme-full gnome-shell
      gnome-shell-common gnome-themes-standard libcaribou-common libcaribou0
      libclutter-1.0-0 libclutter-1.0-common libcogl-common libcogl-pango0
      libcogl9 libgjs0c libmozjs185-1.0 libmutter0 mutter-common
    The following NEW packages will be installed:
      gir1.2-accountsservice-1.0 gir1.2-caribou-1.0 gir1.2-clutter-1.0
      gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-folks-0.6
      gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gee-1.0 gir1.2-gjsdbus-1.0 gir1.2-gkbd-3.0
      gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-mutter-3.0 gir1.2-networkmanager-1.0
      gir1.2-telepathyglib-0.12 gir1.2-telepathylogger-0.2 gir1.2-upowerglib-1.0
      gir1.2-xkl-1.0 gjs gnome-contacts gnome-icon-theme-full gnome-shell
      gnome-shell-common gnome-themes-standard gnome-tweak-tool libcaribou-common
      libcaribou0 libclutter-1.0-0 libclutter-1.0-common libcogl-common
      libcogl-pango0 libcogl9 libgjs0c libmozjs185-1.0 libmutter0 mutter-common
    0 upgraded, 35 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
    Need to get 16.8 MB of archives.
    After this operation, 38.1 MB of additional disk space will be used.
    That makes installing and using 'gnome-tweak-tool' a quite viable option
    Last edited by kansasnoob; November 19th, 2013 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #52
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    I anticipate someone asking why the fallback-session was renamed flashback so I want to be able to point to the changelog for 'gnome-panel':

    gnome-panel (3.6.2-1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low

    * New upstream release
    * Moved gnome-session-fallback from gnome-session and rename to
    gnome-sesion-flashback:
    - debian/control.in
    - debian/gnome-session-flashback.*
    - debian/gnome-wm.desktop
    - debian/patches/01_gnome-wm.patch
    - debian/patches/02_flashback_desktop.patch
    - debian/scripts/
    * 00-Add-the-GNOME-Flashback-session.patch:
    - Backport patch to add session files for GNOME Flashback
    * debian/control.in:
    - Have gnome-session-flashback depend on nautilus >= 3.8
    and gnome-screensaver per .session file
    - Update build dependencies
    * debian/patches/git-build-with-gnome-desktop38*.patch
    - Fix build with gnome-desktop3 3.8
    * debian/patches/drop-gweather-xml-include.patch:
    - Fix build with libgweather 3.8
    * Backport several other fixes:
    - 90-remove_artifact_on_icon_animation.patch
    - 91-fix_panels_in_separate_screens.patch
    - 92-fix_sunrise-times.patch
    * Dropped patches applied in new version
    - 15_avoid_applet_loading_failures.patch
    - 16_remove_online_accounts_from_user_menu.patch
    - 17_avoid_double_forking.patch
    - 19_dconf_api_changes.patch

    -- Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@ubuntu.com> Sat, 08 Jun 2013 21:11:02 -0400
    The simple fact is that the decision was made upstream in Debian

  3. #53
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Someone posted a perfectly a valid response to a discussion in Ubuntu +1, please DO NOT move it, but my explanation could easily take that thread way off-topic so I'm posting a convoluted response here in order to keep that thread on topic

    I actually liked the wording there:

    "who's who in the gnome zoo"
    It really does relate to the general confusion surrounding the current "gnome-sessions".

    First of all NEVER install the meta-package 'gnome' because it pulls in way too many unwanted packages:

    Code:
    lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome
    [sudo] password for lance: 
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree       
    Reading state information... Done
    The following extra packages will be installed:
      binfmt-support browser-plugin-gnash caribou caribou-antler cli-common
      dconf-tools desktop-base finger five-or-more four-in-a-row gdebi gdebi-core
      gedit-plugins gimp gimp-data gir1.2-gucharmap-2.90 gir1.2-zeitgeist-2.0 gksu
      gnash gnash-common gnome-chess gnome-core gnome-dictionary gnome-games
      gnome-klotski gnome-nettool gnome-nibbles gnome-packagekit
      gnome-packagekit-data gnome-packagekit-session gnome-robots gnome-tetravex
      gnuchess gnuchess-book gtk2-engines hamster-applet hamster-indicator iagno
      imagemagick imagemagick-common inkscape libamd2.2.0 libappindicator0.1-cil
      libappindicator1 libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbabl-0.1-0 libblas3 libbonobo2-0
      libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common
      libboost-iostreams1.53.0 libboost-program-options1.53.0
      libboost-thread1.53.0 libcaribou-gtk-module libcaribou-gtk3-module
      libdbus-glib1.0-cil libdbus1.0-cil libdiscid0 libgconf2.0-cil libgdict-1.0-6
      libgdict-common libgdiplus libgegl-0.2-0 libgfortran3 libgimp2.0 libgksu2-0
      libglade2-0 libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.6-cil libgnome2-0 libgnome2-bin
      libgnome2-common libgnomecanvas2-0 libgnomecanvas2-common libgnomeui-0
      libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libgnomevfs2-extra
      libgsl0ldbl libgtk-vnc-2.0-0 libgtk2.0-cil libgtkspell0 libgupnp-av-1.0-2
      libgupnp-dlna-2.0-3 libgvnc-1.0-0 libidl-common libidl0 libilmbase6
      libindicator7 libjavascriptcoregtk-1.0-0 liblapack3 liblinear-tools
      liblinear1 liblqr-1-0 libmagick++5 libmagickcore5 libmagickcore5-extra
      libmagickwand5 libmng1 libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libmono-addins0.2-cil
      libmono-cairo4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.0-cil libmono-i18n-west4.0-cil
      libmono-i18n4.0-cil libmono-posix4.0-cil libmono-security4.0-cil
      libmono-sharpzip4.84-cil libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil
      libmono-system-core4.0-cil libmono-system-drawing4.0-cil
      libmono-system-security4.0-cil libmono-system-xml4.0-cil
      libmono-system4.0-cil libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 liborbit2 librygel-core-2.0-1
      librygel-renderer-2.0-1 librygel-renderer-gst-2.0-1 librygel-server-2.0-1
      libsdl1.2debian libsofia-sip-ua-glib3 libsofia-sip-ua0 libumfpack5.4.0
      libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-common libwmf-bin libwnck-common
      libwnck22 lightsoff mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime netpbm nmap
      perlmagick python-appindicator python-gconf python-gnome2 python-numpy
      python-pyatspi python-pyorbit python-uniconvertor python-wnck quadrapassel
      rdesktop rygel rygel-playbin rygel-preferences sound-juicer swell-foop tali
      telepathy-rakia tomboy tracker-gui vinagre whois
    Suggested packages:
      browser-plugin-lightspark gimp-help-en gimp-help gimp-data-extras dia-gnome
      gnome-boxes gnucash libreoffice-evolution planner gnome-hearts
      gnome-system-tools gnome-packagekit-tools xboard eboard scid
      python-evolution imagemagick-doc autotrace curl enscript ffmpeg gnuplot
      grads hp2xx html2ps mplayer povray radiance texlive-base-bin transfig
      ufraw-batch ruby libsvg-perl libxml-xql-perl pstoedit libbonobo2-bin
      libdiscid0-dbg monodoc-gtk2.0-manual libgnomevfs2-bin gamin fam
      gnome-mime-data gsl-ref-psdoc gsl-doc-pdf gsl-doc-info gsl-ref-html
      libsvm-tools liblinear-dev libmono-i18n4.0-all libgamin0 sofia-sip-doc
      gstreamer1.0-ffmpeg python-gnome2-doc python-numpy-doc python-numpy-dbg
      python-nose python-dev gfortran python-pyorbit-dbg python-uniconvertor-dbg
      pcscd rygel-tracker rygel-mediathek tumbler gstreamer1.0-lame
      gstreamer1.0-plugins-really-bad tasque
    The following NEW packages will be installed:
      binfmt-support browser-plugin-gnash caribou caribou-antler cli-common
      dconf-tools desktop-base finger five-or-more four-in-a-row gdebi gdebi-core
      gedit-plugins gimp gimp-data gir1.2-gucharmap-2.90 gir1.2-zeitgeist-2.0 gksu
      gnash gnash-common gnome gnome-chess gnome-core gnome-dictionary gnome-games
      gnome-klotski gnome-nettool gnome-nibbles gnome-packagekit
      gnome-packagekit-data gnome-packagekit-session gnome-robots gnome-tetravex
      gnuchess gnuchess-book gtk2-engines hamster-applet hamster-indicator iagno
      imagemagick imagemagick-common inkscape libamd2.2.0 libappindicator0.1-cil
      libappindicator1 libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbabl-0.1-0 libblas3 libbonobo2-0
      libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common
      libboost-iostreams1.53.0 libboost-program-options1.53.0
      libboost-thread1.53.0 libcaribou-gtk-module libcaribou-gtk3-module
      libdbus-glib1.0-cil libdbus1.0-cil libdiscid0 libgconf2.0-cil libgdict-1.0-6
      libgdict-common libgdiplus libgegl-0.2-0 libgfortran3 libgimp2.0 libgksu2-0
      libglade2-0 libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.6-cil libgnome2-0 libgnome2-bin
      libgnome2-common libgnomecanvas2-0 libgnomecanvas2-common libgnomeui-0
      libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libgnomevfs2-extra
      libgsl0ldbl libgtk-vnc-2.0-0 libgtk2.0-cil libgtkspell0 libgupnp-av-1.0-2
      libgupnp-dlna-2.0-3 libgvnc-1.0-0 libidl-common libidl0 libilmbase6
      libindicator7 libjavascriptcoregtk-1.0-0 liblapack3 liblinear-tools
      liblinear1 liblqr-1-0 libmagick++5 libmagickcore5 libmagickcore5-extra
      libmagickwand5 libmng1 libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libmono-addins0.2-cil
      libmono-cairo4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.0-cil libmono-i18n-west4.0-cil
      libmono-i18n4.0-cil libmono-posix4.0-cil libmono-security4.0-cil
      libmono-sharpzip4.84-cil libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil
      libmono-system-core4.0-cil libmono-system-drawing4.0-cil
      libmono-system-security4.0-cil libmono-system-xml4.0-cil
      libmono-system4.0-cil libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 liborbit2 librygel-core-2.0-1
      librygel-renderer-2.0-1 librygel-renderer-gst-2.0-1 librygel-server-2.0-1
      libsdl1.2debian libsofia-sip-ua-glib3 libsofia-sip-ua0 libumfpack5.4.0
      libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-common libwmf-bin libwnck-common
      libwnck22 lightsoff mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime netpbm nmap
      perlmagick python-appindicator python-gconf python-gnome2 python-numpy
      python-pyatspi python-pyorbit python-uniconvertor python-wnck quadrapassel
      rdesktop rygel rygel-playbin rygel-preferences sound-juicer swell-foop tali
      telepathy-rakia tomboy tracker-gui vinagre whois
    0 upgraded, 161 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
    Need to get 106 MB of archives.
    After this operation, 398 MB of additional disk space will be used.
    Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
    Abort.
    The only time I would use that meta-package is if I'm installing from a mini.iso wanting a somewhat more pure Debian experience.

    Second, if you're starting with Ubuntu itself the only login option is Ubuntu, but explaining the "session" names is much easier for me beginning with Ubuntu GNOME (in this case I'm using Ubuntu GNOME Saucy). In these poor pictures you'll see four login options:

    IMG_4623.JPG IMG_4624.JPG

    They are:

    GNOME
    GNOME Classic
    GNOME Flashback
    GNOME Flashback (no effects)

    The standard GNOME session is gnome-shell. There are some fairly decent screenshots here:

    http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.com/2...alamander.html

    In Saucy a new GNOME Classic session was introduced, but it is totally based on 'gnome-shell':

    http://www.webupd8.org/2013/02/a-qui...e-classic.html

    In either Ubuntu or Ubuntu GNOME if you install the package 'gnome-panel' it brings in the packages needed to provide the "flashback" options, but there has been some confusion surrounding the session renaming:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2185161

    GNOME Flashback uses the Compiz window manager which I find incredibly problematic in Ubuntu because Unity is so reliant on Compiz, and Compiz must be installed in Ubuntu GNOME to use that session or you'll just boot to a blank screen.

    GNOME Flashback (no effects) uses the Metacity window manager which I happen to prefer:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

    Is this info helpful at all?
    Last edited by kansasnoob; November 27th, 2013 at 12:45 PM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by kansasnoob View Post
    Is this info helpful at all?
    Yes

    I tried Ubuntu Gnome recently, but only the default session. I'd better try GNOME Flashback (no effects) too. Chances are that I'll prefer it too at least for older computers.

  5. #55
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by sudodus View Post
    Yes

    I tried Ubuntu Gnome recently, but only the default session. I'd better try GNOME Flashback (no effects) too. Chances are that I'll prefer it too at least for older computers.
    While I find this almost painful to say, I find the Metacity session preferable to Lubuntu or Xubuntu, unless they break the heck out of it in Trusty

  6. #56
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by kansasnoob
    Is this info helpful at all?
    Most definitely. It also helps if I read what you're saying and not assume what you're saying.

    From my perspective what I would need now is a road map as to what 'tweak' tools should be used for each gnome type. I'd also pose the question, does gnome and its variants require GDM or will they work with LightDM?

  7. #57
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by PJs Ronin View Post
    Most definitely. It also helps if I read what you're saying and not assume what you're saying.

    From my perspective what I would need now is a road map as to what 'tweak' tools should be used for each gnome type. I'd also pose the question, does gnome and its variants require GDM or will they work with LightDM?
    Tough but good questions

    I'll address your last question first:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2183871

    As you can see there I had to use 'lightdm' with the 'lightdm-gtk-greeter' to get things working with the flashback sessions in Ubuntu GNOME Saucy (and so far in Trusty).

    Regarding the rest of it I think you need to just figure out what you want most out of your computer?

    If Unity is working well for you then stick with it.

    If not tell me what you do and don't like about it.

    ATM I personally prefer Ubuntu GNOME out-of-box with the standard GNOME Shell DE, but I maintain nearly 50 individual PC's spread out over a 50 mile radius and preferences differ

    It's pretty easy to find you-tube videos of how different DE's perform, or you could muck around with some different live iso's, or you could even try different distros in a VM.

    What are you comfortable doing?

  8. #58
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by kansasnoob
    What are you comfortable doing?
    I'm pretty comfortable doing anything (legal) and have 7 partitions with different flavours of Ubuntu with the occasional Mint thrown in as well. Just as well you didn't ask "What are you capable of doing?" because that's an entirely different matter. But let's have a go shall we.

    Here is an image of the top of my browser. See those horrible window controls? I'm having a hell of a job changing them.


    This partition is an insitu upgrade of Saucy to Trusty with Unity as standard and Gnome added. I've logged in with the "Gnome" option (gnome-shell right?) and am now trying to set some window features (themes). I've tried CCSM, gnome-tweak-tool, Ubuntu-tweak, Unity-tweak-tool and Unsettings. I know that some of these tools have no impact on gnome-shell at all, but desperate times call for desperate measures. The best I can get from any of these tools is some minor changes to the GTK+ Theme and the Current Theme... but nothing that makes my eyes light up.

    My needs are simple, to have a DE that looks attractive and is easy to modify. So far, I can't see that happening with Gnome.

    Btw, my gnoming is all from the standard repos.

  9. #59
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    Quote Originally Posted by PJs Ronin View Post
    I'm pretty comfortable doing anything (legal) and have 7 partitions with different flavours of Ubuntu with the occasional Mint thrown in as well. Just as well you didn't ask "What are you capable of doing?" because that's an entirely different matter. But let's have a go shall we.

    Here is an image of the top of my browser. See those horrible window controls? I'm having a hell of a job changing them.


    This partition is an insitu upgrade of Saucy to Trusty with Unity as standard and Gnome added. I've logged in with the "Gnome" option (gnome-shell right?) and am now trying to set some window features (themes). I've tried CCSM, gnome-tweak-tool, Ubuntu-tweak, Unity-tweak-tool and Unsettings. I know that some of these tools have no impact on gnome-shell at all, but desperate times call for desperate measures. The best I can get from any of these tools is some minor changes to the GTK+ Theme and the Current Theme... but nothing that makes my eyes light up.

    My needs are simple, to have a DE that looks attractive and is easy to modify. So far, I can't see that happening with Gnome.

    Btw, my gnoming is all from the standard repos.
    Very tough questions again, but deserving of a response. I'm glad to know that you know how to multi-boot, I do the same thing. But it's hard to know where to start.

    Did you read my post #53? I clearly said there that installing the meta-package 'gnome' is the wrong way to approach this.

    Now I'm going to point out a few things in no particular order;

    (1) Ubuntu Trusty is pre-alpha at this point:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule

    (2) Trying to learn a new DE while also dealing with an unstable (or unpredictable) version of an OS is NOT a good idea. It's a bit like taking the second bite of an apple before chewing the first ;^) So I'd recommend using a stable release like Saucy for testing DE's and then compare the changes in the next dev release a bit later in the dev cycle.

    (3) I'm not the best person to ask about 'gnome-shell' or 'unity'. I loved Unity in Precise, particularly since there was a Unity-2D version to fall back on, but since then most of my hardware will NOT support Unity so I gave up. And I'd never really tried 'gnome-shell' until Raring when Ubuntu GNOME became an official flavor, so I'm the wrong person to ask about adding a "GNOME Shell" session to Ubuntu. Well, I do know it's best to just install 'gnome-session' or 'gnome-shell' rather than the 'gnome' meta-package, but that's about it.

    (4) Ubuntu GNOME became an official flavor in Raring and I've been an iso-tester since 2008 so when I choose which iso's to test I look for those that are most in need. I did the same when Lubuntu became official some time back. It's called "helping the new kid on the block" :^) But while performing Ubuntu GNOME Saucy testing I truly fell in love with it, these screenshots are actually from Ubuntu GNOME Trusty which is quite buggy but it'll give you an idea how little I "tweak" just using 'gnome-tweak-tool':

    sys_set_background.jpg

    tweak_desktop.jpg

    tweak_extensions.jpg

    tweak_shell.jpg

    tweak_theme.jpg

    (5) I've found converting from one DE to another is more and more complicated so I'm trying to focus on getting somewhat better integration but it's a huge challenge!!!!

    So, I'd suggest using a stable release like Saucy to find your desired DE, then you can post questions here:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=329

    But if you insist on using Trusty, which is at least unpredictable, you can post specific questions here:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=427

    I hope this is helpful.

  10. #60
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    Re: Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

    very much... ty

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