View Poll Results: Ideology and you ?

Voters
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  • I only use open source software!

    8 4.97%
  • I feel strongly about OSS, but willing to compromise

    72 44.72%
  • I support OSS but use a variety of tools

    62 38.51%
  • I don't really care about OSS, just what tool is best

    14 8.70%
  • I hate OSS but am hanging out on an Ubuntu forum anyway

    0 0%
  • Some other view that can't be summed up in a poll

    5 3.11%
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Thread: How ideological are you about Linux?

  1. #41
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gone fishing View Post
    I voted for feeling strongly although I am not opposed to proprietary software in a Stallman like manner, I feel that free software has the potential to produce better software, because openness and the free flow of ideas are important. I don’t believe for example that the development of science would have been so successful if it followed a model like proprietary software.

    Trends in computing at the moment are concerning – walled gardens, the abuse of patents to develop anti competitive monopolies or cartels, restricted boot, SOPRA etc. Ubuntu with the open source movement is an opposing force defending the right of all of us to use our computers and IT technology as we wish, to use this technology for our benefit, not the benefit of a few large corporations.



    I am pleased that the majority of voters on the forums have some agreement with me, that ideas are important. However I suspect the KiwiNZ’s views are the dominant view by the authorities on Ubuntu forums, which is a shame.
    True freedom is being free to use what's fits best in ones own circumstance, be it open be it proprietary without guilt or judgement for what ever selects.

    The views of the staff are as varied as our backgrounds and where abouts, we are not held by any one doctrine or paradigm.

    I am utterly agnostic when it comes to software, there is good and bad open source as there is good and bad proprietary software, I use what is best for me and present both to clients so they can select what is best for them.

    In the end it is just software, a product, an earnings stream. It is not some grand crusade.
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  2. #42
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gone fishing View Post
    I am pleased that the majority of voters on the forums have some agreement with me, that ideas are important. However I suspect the KiwiNZ’s views are the dominant view by the authorities on Ubuntu forums, which is a shame.
    I am not sure how you have come to this conclusion.


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  3. #43
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwinz View Post
    true freedom is being free to use what's fits best in ones own circumstance, be it open be it proprietary without guilt or judgement for what ever selects.

    The views of the staff are as varied as our backgrounds and where abouts, we are not held by any one doctrine or paradigm.

    I am utterly agnostic when it comes to software, there is good and bad open source as there is good and bad proprietary software, i use what is best for me and present both to clients so they can select what is best for them.

    In the end it is just software, a product, an earnings stream. It is not some grand crusade.
    +1

  4. #44
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    True freedom is being free to use what's fits best in ones own circumstance, be it open be it proprietary without guilt or judgement for what ever selects.
    I'm not sure what true freedom is, and in most ways I think that FSF use of the term freedom is unhelpful as the term is too ideologically loaded, furthermore the FSF use of freedom I believe is mistaken http://www.osnews.com/permalink?511368. I would agree with the quote above as I think would most fair thinking people.

    However, if I look at the Ubuntu Phlosphy - which is the driving idea behind the Ubuntu project http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-...our-philosophy

    Our philosophy

    Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all.


    We believe that every computer user:

    Should have the freedom to download, run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.

    Should be able to use their software in the language of their choice.
    Should be able to use all software regardless of disability.
    Our philosophy is reflected in the software we produce, the way we distribute it and our licensing terms, too - Ubuntu Licence Policy.

    Install Ubuntu and you can rest assured that all our software meets these ideals. Plus, we are continually working to ensure that every piece of software you could possibly need is available under a licence that gives you those freedoms.
    Free software

    Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world.

    Quoting the Free Software Foundation's, 'What is Free Software,' the freedoms at the core of free software are defined as:

    The freedom to run the program, for any purpose.

    The freedom to study how the program works and adapt it to your needs.
    The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others.
    The freedom to improve the program and release your improvements to the public, so that everyone benefits.
    I would agree with just about every word and you would agree with almost non of it (and seem to believe that the philosophy is just ideological nonsense and rhetoric) I think this is a shame. However, possibly most members of the forum do agree with Ubuntu’s philosophy.
    Last edited by Gone fishing; November 17th, 2012 at 03:52 AM.

  5. #45
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Gone Fishing, there's a difference between declaring oneself an open source project - which Ubuntu most certainly does - and with opposing all proprietary ones, which Stallman's cohort do. If Ubuntu had the philosophy KiwiNZ is opposing, they would never have released a Windows U1 client or considered Chrome as a default browser for Ubuntu. Hell, they certainly wouldn't have made their serverside code for U1 closed source.

    Ubuntu as a project is about as realist as the statement you quoted from KiwiNZ is.

  6. #46
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    The Ubuntu philosophy was made to benefit users. Users don't have to conform to the Ubuntu philosophy (even users who use Ubuntu like most of us).

    And honestly, the Ubuntu philosophy is weakened by its reliance on an uncertain definition of individuality that only really undermines the foundation of rational thought (that a person has individuality distinct enough to provide a justification for such thought).

  7. #47
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    fervor OSS over propitiatory
    if i cant get it done with OS i use what i have to to get it done
    eg;nvidia drivers
    on the topic of gpu drivers Intel uses open-source linux drivers which i have never been disappointed in
    i wish intel would make low end (20-30 USD range) discrete GPUs so you can use them on AMD systems
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  8. #48
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gone fishing View Post
    I'm not sure what true freedom is, and in most ways I think that FSF use of the term freedom is unhelpful as the term is too ideologically loaded, furthermore the FSF use of freedom I believe is mistaken http://www.osnews.com/permalink?511368. I would agree with the quote above as I think would most fair thinking people.

    However, if I look at the Ubuntu Phlosphy - which is the driving idea behind the Ubuntu project http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-...our-philosophy



    I would agree with just about every word and you would agree with almost non of it (and seem to believe that the philosophy is just ideological nonsense and rhetoric) I think this is a shame. However, possibly most members of the forum do agree with Ubuntu’s philosophy.
    I neither agree or disagree software is a tool, do I feel my cordless drill is a crusade? Do I feel my Audi is a crusade? No to both they are tools.

    Am I passionate about Civil Defence?, do I think Red cross is a worthy crusade? Yes, they are both something I am passionate about and give energy to, they have real life outcomes for people in real need.
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  9. #49
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    Gone Fishing, there's a difference between declaring oneself an open source project - which Ubuntu most certainly does - and with opposing all proprietary ones, which Stallman's cohort do. If Ubuntu had the philosophy KiwiNZ is opposing, they would never have released a Windows U1 client or considered Chrome as a default browser for Ubuntu. Hell, they certainly wouldn't have made their serverside code for U1 closed source.

    Ubuntu as a project is about as realist as the statement you quoted from KiwiNZ is.
    If you read the link http://www.osnews.com/permalink?511368 you will see that I oppose the view of FSF. I myself am pretty OK at some MS applications Access and Excel, and see nothing immoral about using them. I would rather use open-source software but that is not always possible. I believe Richard is wrong on Freedom. I think it is a shame when people are trapped into proprietary software, they are not doing anything wrong or immoral I would rather that they were more free.

    I support Ubuntu and its more pragmatic approach both practical and philosophical reasons. Now that enough about me I wouldn't want to be accused of solipsism. However kiwiNZ's position is
    Linux is an Operating System, that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
    This view he has expressed on several occasions This is not a pragmatic position it is an ideological political position that opposes open-source and the Ubuntu Philosophy.

    Ubuntu's philosophy is the driving vision of the project and I support it I think it is a shame when others don't. They are however, fully entitled to their position I think they are wrong.

  10. #50
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    Re: How ideological are you about Linux?

    There was a period when I only used open-source software except for BIOS and whatever was on my phone and mp3 player (and possibly other embedded devices that I didn't know about). Now I grudgingly use a bit more proprietary software, like flash, and I have some hardware that is inoperable without proprietary drivers.

    I execute code that hasn't been released for public audit as little as possible, which is why I have all flash blocked in my browser (and scripts too) until I choose to turn it on. My wireless driver, while proprietary, is source available, so I'm not running it blind.

    I also check the licenses on my browser plugins.

    On the other hand, do have a nook, which is part android, and part closed secret sauce. I also have some android devices, which, while more open than the nook, does have some proprietary code in the google apps (not sure if it is source available or not... should check). I check the licenses on android apps as well.

    I'm a one of the few refugees to Linux from Mac, which I admit was, in some ways, a superior user experience, and the main thing that drove the transition was FOSS ideology.

    So I guess you could say it's important to me.

    On the other hand, I have no objection to other people using proprietary software heavily, or lots of proprietary software being ported to linux. I actually think it is wonderful for the platform. I just don't want to use it personally, if it can be helped.

    Software is a tool. It's just that if you can't see the code, you're never sure if it's your tool or somebody else's.
    Last edited by Aaron Christianson; November 17th, 2012 at 06:36 AM.

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