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Thread: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
    I don't think there is any stability issues with Gnome, but because Ubuntu chooses to have it's own versions of the 'System Settings' , onlinie accounts (UOA vs. GOA), compositing window manager (Compiz) and it's own Shell (Unity) etc.
    There will be a process of patching and tweaking the involved Gnome components to meet Ubuntu's needs.
    This process, I think, is what you all refer to as 'stabilizing' and 'polishing'.
    It's an adaption process where Ubuntu has to adapt to the Gnome components because Ubuntu has not produced a complete DE yet and still relies heavily on Gnome to have a complete DE.

    It has nothing to do with the quality of the current Gnome version, and I really can't see that UGR would gain any stability at all from such a decision, but it'll gain less users as it looses it's appeal to Gnome fans because of an old Gnome version.
    It sounds like you are saying that GNOME stable releases are stable when they are released and that there are no benefits to waiting a bit for bugs to be fixed.

    For instance, GNOME 3.6 depends on a still-not-released version of ibus (a risky move for those who need alternate input methods). It also depended on gstreamer-1.0 which was only released 2 days before GNOME 3.6 and was not API-compatible with gstreamer-0.10 which had been used for years.

    Ubuntu's integration work does shield users from certain controversial GNOME decisions. Examples include continuing to offer an easy way to change what happens when you close your laptop lid, allowing you to right-click on the desktop to change the wallpaper (this is part of having nautilus continue to draw desktop icons), and being able to change the theme. Those kinds of patches take time to keep working.

    A bit off topic, but it is interesting that Fedora 18 won't be released until 2013. That's about 3 months after Ubuntu 12.10 was released. (I think a lot of that is because of their complex installer rewrite but still.)

  2. #42
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    @jbicha
    Yeah I guess it could sound that way, I'm not saying that Gnome releases are free of bugs.
    I said earlier, Gnome is going through a lot of changes, Gnome3 and Gnome-Shell are still evolving (you mentioned ibus and gstreamer) but still very useful and comparable with a 'stabilized' Ubuntu

    I know that "Ubuntu's integration work does shield users from certain controversial GNOME decisions" and that's good in the sense of 'stability' but it also shields users, like me, from having the latest version of Gnome even if it is a bit 'unstable', it's IMO a small price to pay for having one of, if not, the most innovative DE(s) running.

    Regarding Fedora, well they are always behind schedule and Gnome might just be one reason among many others but I think Fedora is more about innovation than it is about stability.

    Ps. I appreciate all your work with Gnome and UGR, it's amazing to see how much has been achieved in just one release cycle, if you and the other dev's can bring Gnome 3.8 in the next I'll be even more amazed. I wish the best of luck for you and all other developers involved in UGR
    Last edited by Stinger; November 9th, 2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Being polite ;-)

  3. #43
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    Does this news change anyone's views?

    http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/fallb...o-be.html#more

    Ubuntu users don't have to worry about this just yet, since the next Ubuntu version - 13.04 Raring Ringtail -, will continue to use GNOME 3.6 for the most part and not the latest GNOME 3.8 which will ship without the fallback mode.
    The GNOME developers didn't forget about the users who prefer a GNOME 2-like layout, and it looks like they will compile and maybe help maintain a list of GNOME Shell extensions that provide such a layout.
    That is where the responsibility lies. Yet people always blame the Ubuntu developers for not staying with the past.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by grahammechanical View Post
    Does this news change anyone's views?

    http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/fallb...o-be.html#more





    That is where the responsibility lies. Yet people always blame the Ubuntu developers for not staying with the past.
    To me that means I need to shift 100% of my efforts towards Lubuntu, particularly since they mention dropping Metacity altogether

    In the meanwhile I'll be using Ubuntu 12.04 in classic (no effects) mode ........... I'm glad it's supported until April 2017
    Last edited by kansasnoob; November 9th, 2012 at 04:37 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    @grahammechanical
    I saw the announcement at worldofgnome and Muktware:
    Gnome 3.8 is dropping Fallback Mode********** Gnome 3.8 To Drop Fallback Mode: Oops! I Did It Again
    The guy's at Muktware have humor

    Well it shouldn't really matter nowadays, Ubuntu already dropped Unity 2D and basically Gnome is doing the same.
    I think it's the right decision and you can read more about it in the links provided above.

    I really don't know why you are talking about responsibility and 'blaming Ubuntu developers' ?

    It's a Gnome decision and of course they are responsible for making this decision and if you want to 'blame' anybody for this necessary decision, you can blame Gnome.
    But then again you can blame Ubuntu for still relying on Gnome fallback mode

    I can see that Ubuntu now has to use the old Gnome version (because of Unity and 'stability') but at the same time Ubuntu could benefit from having Gnome 3.8 in UGR for further testing it for the next release.

    What about that proposal ?

    And as a side effect UGR would be much more appealing to Gnome fans

    BTW, did you see that Linus Torvalds is actually back on Gnome 3! That guy never stops to amaze me
    Last edited by Stinger; November 9th, 2012 at 05:22 PM. Reason: One more link for info

  6. #46
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    @Stinger

    The other month I proposed that Ubuntu have a special testing branch where registered testers could test experimental packages, from wherever, before they were merged into the development release.

    The situation as it is now, is that Raring may get Gnome 3.8 when it is too late to do anything about any bugs testers may report. Or, Gnome 3.8 goes into the SS development branch after next April and then we get to test it.

    If Gnome Remix is going to keep up the developers will need lots of help. They will need testers.

    I do not accept the Linux tradition of letting the user be the tester and then responding, or not, to bug reports. If Ubuntu has to be a little bit out of date in order to release versions with few bugs, then I accept that as a necessity. I do think that more use could be made of community volunteer testers to try out the experimental stuff.

    Regards.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  7. #47
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
    Here we go again, the never ending debate

    http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/ubunt...omponents.html

    What do you want from Ubuntu between the long term releases ?

    Stability would mean to follow Gnome releases one step behind.

    Progression would mean to keep up the pace with the Gnome releases and use the current development version (which eventually will become 3.8 )

    I personally would like progression because I use the UGR and would be sad to see UGR following Gnome one step behind Fedora.

    I can understand, from the Ubuntu perspective, it would be better to follow one step behind and concentrate the development on Unity, but I dislike the fact that Unity will be locking the Gnome version in Ubuntu.

    Maybe it's time to jump ship to follow Gnome ?
    I used to love Ubuntu when Gnome was the default desktop, but that all changed with Unity.

    What do you want from Ubuntu ? Gnome 3.6 or the current development version that will become 3.8 ?
    No, because the devs can't make a distro that ships with an interface which decides to break every theme, applet and extension with every new release. Imagine the headaches that will cause (yes, I know Fedora uses it, but... It's Fedora, y'a know?).

    You can certainly guess why I switched. Maybe they should go the Mint way and put Cinnamon as the main environment with MATE as a light-weight alternative. XFCE ain't bad either, if you can find a decent menu with a proper search function. Oh and a sound applet. Don't know why those devs decided to omit that.
    Read my technology blog at: http://penguincampaigner.wordpress.com

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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    @grahammechanical
    I am willing to test any Gnome 3.8 packages for Ubuntu / UGR, if that's what it takes to get Gnome 3.8 in UGR, just show me where to sign up, where to get the packages that needs to be tested and where to report the results.
    And I think a lot of other Gnome fans are willing to do so too, testing 'experimental stuff' from the Gnome development branch.

    Just think of it, UGR will then be the leading Gnome release, even Fedora won't be able keep up the pace (just kidding)
    Last edited by Stinger; November 10th, 2012 at 12:12 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    I can squeeze it onto my test box too , count me in .
    if it ain't broke you haven't tweaked it enough

  10. #50
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    Re: Should Ubuntu use Gnome 3.6 or 3.8 for Raring 13.04 ?

    The decision made is the best, as gnome 3.8 will be out about only 1 month before RR release (if not delayed), and we can expect some good for 13.04.1
    So where is the problem ?

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