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Thread: Pivacy issue in v12.10

  1. #11
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post
    93% is alot, but maybe it's because of the legitimacy of the requests?

    Traditional businesses are also required to comply with police investigations, why would you expect the internet to be free of this sort of thing?
    Maybe the requests are legitimate. Maybe they're not. Do you know where I can look that up? A few weeks ago my favorite operating system didn't have a built-in key-logger.

  2. #12
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    The only way to be safe is not to use the Internet.
    UsingTheTerminal and PopularPages

    Smile today, cry tomorrow!
    ( Read this everyday )

  3. #13
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    This thread is so full of misinformation, that it isn't even funny. The only thing that is sent to Canoical are searches in the dash. All you have to do if you don't like this happening is turn off the Amazon search in System Settings -> Privacy.

    Search in the dash, uses zeitgiest (which doesn't send keystrokes anywhere) to make searching for items that you've accessed since installing, much easier.

    What I'd like to see, is some wireshark logs showing the keystrokes being sent to anywhere, instead of just unsubstantiated claims that the blogger can't back up. It looks to me like this is another case of making wild claims without backing them up, just to get page reads.

  4. #14
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Quote Originally Posted by thatguruguy View Post
    This. Plus:

    • Searches in the Files lens aren't sent to anyone. If you have a super-secret file on your computer that you don't want anyone to know about, search for it in your Files lens.
    • Chances are, the searches being done daily by most people on the internet can already raise more security questions than typing 3 letters in the Dash.
    • Searches in the Applications lens have gone to the Ubuntu Software Center since 11.04. Searches in the Videos lens have gone to Amazon since (at least) 12.04. You could search Amazon's music collection in Banshee in 11.04. I'm not sure how this is a bigger privacy violation than those were.
    Yeah. People are being spied upon all the time and it's getting worse every day. And when Canonical decides to record keystrokes from every lens or even word processing applications, and potentially provide them to third parties, how will you feel? Will you at least raise an eyebrow or will you just go on knowing that there are a million people reading what you type so they can shove ads in your face or sick the cops on you or throttle your bandwidth? I really hate being the slippery-slope guy. But seriously, has anyone else noticed the amazingly slippery slope we've been sliding down? Maybe I'm getting off topic here. Basically, I think it would be much more appropriate to have users opt-in for this service, rather than require them to opt-out if they don't want it. It's at least considerate.
    Last edited by teslasmoustache; October 23rd, 2012 at 04:01 AM.

  5. #15
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    blegh. That looks really hard to read. sorry.

  6. #16
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Cariboo907:

    file:///usr/share/unity/6/searchingthedashlegalnotice.html

    IP addresses and search terms.

    "It says "Canonical will only use your search terms and IP address in accordance with this legal notice and our privacy policy."

    Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

    "The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."

    Unless there's something else I'm missing. Let me know.

  7. #17
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Quote Originally Posted by teslasmoustache View Post
    Cariboo907:

    Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

    "The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."
    I'd have to agree that this is a worrisome piece of legalese. Especially since I don't recall being presented with an "agreement" at any point. If there is a license or allowance being granted by me to Canonical to store, distribute and/or utilize my data, should I not be presented with it when I install the relevant package?

    That is to say, if I install shopping-lens, even as part of a metapackage like ubuntu-desktop, should I not have a pop-up (if in Synaptic or Software Center) or a text message with yes/no option (if in aptitude or apt-get) stating the policy and asking if I agree to it?

    If I answer no, the shopping-lens package doesn't get installed.

    If I answer yes, I've gone into the arrangement with both eyes open and have nothing to complain about.

    I didn't have much of an issue with search terms being sent to Canonical and from there sent to Amazon, since I was under the impression that doing so would essentially make the request anonymous from Amazon's end (all searches appearing to originate from Canonical). That type of system would allay my concern over Amazon or another vendor deciding that my searches were in some way outside the bounds.

    Reading the Privacy Policy, there seems to be a giving of permission to Canonical to data-mine, keep indefinitely, or otherwise manipulate my data that goes beyond the assumption that the data is being used to service the purpose of the package, that is, searching for items from the Dash.

    Maybe Canonical doesn't have any intention to do anything of the sort. If so, the wording is unfortunate and prone to misinterpretation, and needs to be corrected.

    That seems to me to be a problem with Canonical recently: attempting to communicate or implement a basically good or useful idea in a way that leads to a backlash. That could have been easily avoided by clear and transparent communication, especially before implementing the changes.

  8. #18
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Or to phrase it another way, re:

    By searching in the dash you consent to:

    1. the collection and use of your search terms and IP address in this way; and
    2. the storage of your search terms and IP address by Canonical and such selected third parties (if applicable).
    No, I do not.

    By consenting knowingly to an agreement I've been made aware of beforehand, I consent to said agreement. Tucking a legal notice in the far corner of the Dash that tells me I consented to Canonical doing the above by the act of searching, apparently even before this notice was published, does not equal my giving informed consent to anything.

    Here, in a nutshell, is the problem: presenting this idea to the community ahead of time would probably have gone over fairly well.

    Canonical could have said to the Ubuntu community, "Hey, we're working hard to bring you a fairly awesome GNU/Linux distro. We'd love it if you'd help us out a bit by occasionally searching for stuff on Amazon through the Dash, because we've designed a way to do that where we get some affiliate money if you buy something you found through the Dash."

    At that point, I'm fairly certain people would have said, "Sure, I can help out if I'm shopping there anyway, that's cool."

    Presenting it as a fait accompli makes it look as if Canonical is hiding something, even if they're not.

    What's worse is that this legal notice of data storage is apparently a legal requirement in the U.K. and was implemented after this was pointed out by a member of the community. In other words, it comes across as an forced afterthought rather than an initial free choice to be completely open with the user base.

    The initial force behind Ubuntu's rise to popularity was twofold: ease of installation and use, and the feeling of community fostered by the ideals summed up in the word "ubuntu" itself: community, honesty, integrity, sharing.

    On the first point, many distros are at least as easy to install as Ubuntu, and a good number are arguably easier to use, given Unity's uphill struggle. So it really isn't a compelling hook to bring in new users or keep present ones.

    So the uniqueness of Ubuntu boils down to the sense that it espouses the beliefs it is named after. Fumbling that impression away with bad presentation, bad implementation and/or a failure to communicate is a horribly bad idea.

  9. #19
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    Quote Originally Posted by teslasmoustache View Post
    Cariboo907:

    file:///usr/share/unity/6/searchingthedashlegalnotice.html

    IP addresses and search terms.

    "It says "Canonical will only use your search terms and IP address in accordance with this legal notice and our privacy policy."

    Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

    "The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."

    Unless there's something else I'm missing. Let me know.
    You are implying that all keystrokes are recorded and stored by Canonical, I see nothing about this anywhere.

    As I said, if you don't like the shopping lens, either turn it off, or uninstall it. It's your computer, to do what you want with it. You aren't stuck with the defaults at any time.

  10. #20
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    Re: Pivacy issue in v12.10

    From someone who is an average, casual computer consumer who doesn't read every release note on updates, and is absolutely new to Ubuntu and Linux, I had no idea this was in place.

    I ran across a bunch of articles lately about Windows 8 vs Ubuntu 12.10, so I gave in and figured why not.

    I can't stand Amazon. I have my own personal reasons. It's not privacy issues or anything. I despise the company, I had a very huge ordeal with them and my seller account a year or so back and they made an absolute mess out of the situation. Since then, I want nothing to do with the company.

    Then I find out my information is being collected and sent to them. Regardless of what information it is, or how limited, I want nothing to do with it. And this feature should -absolutely- not be an automatically opted-in, or "Opt-Out Only" feature. Incredible.

    I was loving my time with Ubuntu, and was really trying to learn the system. I had started a blog about my process of switching and had even donated my would-be $100~ Windows 8 money to a few FOSS companies I felt would make my transition to Ubuntu easier.

    And I literally just done uninstalling Ubuntu.

    For the average consumer, and one who cares about privacy, why bother with this? I know most people here won't share the view, but that's why there's such growing pains and lack of expansion, among other things.

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