Suprises planned for RR.

[Bucky Ball]

I completely disagree with the whole concept. Last I looked it was 'open-source', not 'let's go whisper in a corridor'. Thought they were the sort of organisations I was getting away from by using open-source. Not for me ...

This is an opportunity for all the moaners to get involved.

This is NOT an opportunity for all the moaners to get involved. It is elitist as you need to be a forum member or close (on what criteria and by whom this is judged who knows). From the very first paragraph on the page:

While we won’t talk about them until we think they are ready to celebrate, we’re happy to engage with contributing community members that have established credibility (membership, or close to it) in Ubuntu, who want to be part of the action.

Not everyone wants to be a member, nor should they be required to be to contribute to any project they feel they have something to give; they should always have a choice.

There are other reasons I believe this to be a bad idea but I shan't ramble. Most of them are mentioned on the original link.

[cariboo]

I completely disagree with the whole concept. Last I looked it was 'open-source', not 'let's go whisper in a corridor'. Thought that's the sort of organisations I was getting away from by using open-source. Not for me ... thinking of testing out some other OSs over xmas ...

I think something was missed in the translation, if anything development is more open than it was before, see Mark's blog post here. I would encourage you to try different distro's though just to see if you are missing something.

[MG&TL]

I'm up for it. Question is where I sign up.

[cariboo]

There won't be much happening until after UDS-R.

[Bucky Ball]

see Mark's blog post here.

Yes, interesting twist. Bottom line, though, is still: Get input from the wider community generally, take this and work in private with a select group on projects the general community, the ones originally inputting into this, now have no access to until the completed 'surprise' is unveiled in a blaze of glory. But not all surprises are good ones.

I can only see this situation as problematic, regardless of whatever spin MShuttleworth or anyone else puts on the idea. The link you provided was obviously Mark's re-spin response to users approaching him with the same concerns I have (and no doubt others). As he says in the link you provided, the idea was spontaneous. Consequently, I don't think it was very well thought out.

Proof of this is perhaps all in the link? The fact he even wrote the second linked blog is proof there must be more than a bit of concern from other users. We are not all out here patting each other on the backs and genuflecting ...

IMHO

PS: No one get me wrong; I love Ubuntu as many of you are aware. I just don't agree with this particular development.

[mcellius]

This development doesn't bother me in the least. It appears to me that most distros and projects, at least at the beginning, are developed in private. I haven't seen many announcements of the sort, "Hey, I'm going to spin a new distro based on Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora/Gentoo/Arch/whatever that will incorporate features from the game Doom." Usually the first we hear about it is in the initial release, or maybe a beta release. I don't have a problem with that.

This seems like the same, and I think openness requires that everyone be free to develop whatever software they like and then release it whenever they want. They should be free to ask for help, or not, as they prefer, and either solicit input or not, too. When released these programs will be open source, meaning the source code will be available to everyone and anyone to modify and use as desired, and I think that's completely fair and open.

I think this is a great idea! It will create small specialized teams that will focus on particular problems or programs, which could be a highly efficient and productive way to advance all sorts of free and open source software. I look forward to seeing what these teams can produce, and what sorts of creativity might come from it.

[Bucky Ball]

Message received and understood. I'll possibly end up in one of those teams one day or involved in one way or another. Over and out.

[robert shearer]

So let us imagine if the everyone adopted Shuttleworths approach.....

"I'm only going to show one other person the o/s I use and keep it secret from the rest until it really performs well...!"

"I will only offer advice on the forums by PM until I know a really special clever way to solve the users problem....."

"I won't contribute code until it is so good no improvements can be made..."

etc etc...

Secret cliques are as infantile as thinking any of the above scenarios would lead to better marketing, support and development.

If someone is unhappy because the Amazon lens was such a dog and the community said so, before release date, think how much more unhappy they could be in future when poor decisions are revealed only after public release.

[mcellius]

So let us imagine if the everyone adopted Shuttleworths approach.....

Yeah, I think that'd be fine, or at the least not the slightest conflict with free and open source principles. That's part of the freedom, I think.

Secret cliques are as infantile as thinking any of the above scenarios would lead to better marketing, support and development.

No, it isn't a matter of thinking that those scenarios "would" lead to better anything, rather that they could. Either way they do it, it doesn't violate any important principles. Sure, it could all end up a bust, but everyone has the right to try and fail (which must happen all the time, even if we never hear about it) just as much as they have the right to try and succeed.

If someone is unhappy because the Amazon lens was such a dog and the community said so, before release date, think how much more unhappy they could be in future when poor decisions are revealed only after public release.

Yep. And that would be stupid, perhaps, but it's their right. I hope the results are good and not stupid, but how they reach either point is within their rights. I wish them luck and success, but otherwise it's up to them and not a reason for me to complain. And in the end, I'll have the right to accept their work or not, install it or not, and use it or not. Freedom.

[jbicha]

Robert, there's an alternate way of looking at this.

"I'm only going to show one other person the o/s I use and keep it secret from the rest until it really performs well...!"

I didn't really make public my Ubuntu GNOME build script or an ISO until I actually got it working. That meant that people had to wait until August instead of seeing what was started in May.

"I won't contribute code until it is so good no improvements can be made..."

Yup, I generally don't submit patches until they are as good as I can get them. No use wasting people's time by submitting broken code.

If someone is unhappy because the Amazon lens was such a dog and the community said so, before release date, think how much more unhappy they could be in future when poor decisions are revealed only after public release.

There is still a Feature Freeze and a UI Freeze which need to be followed.