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Thread: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Sometimes it just feels like simple things in Ubuntu are just really difficult to do, particularly for the average joe.
    This is true and it is what hurts Linux as a whole in the grand scheme.

    Even with Wine you can't just pop in a Rosetta Stone CD, install, and use. You have to go in and tweak this and tweak that. And, getting some games to work is even worse. But, that's not really the fault of Linux as much as it is the company's who produce the product. Then again you can't really blame a for-profit company for not producing a Linux versus of their product considering the OS only holds what.... 2% of the market?

    If the user is the type who only uses the computer for basic operations like the occasional text editor, surfing the web, checking email - so on - then a fresh install of Ubuntu, Mint, et al if perfectly fine without having to do any tweaking... But, as people become more and more reliant of their computers - 'surfing the web' becomes only a small part of the picture.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post
    This is true and it is what hurts Linux as a whole in the grand scheme.

    Even with Wine you can't just pop in a Rosetta Stone CD, install, and use. You have to go in and tweak this and tweak that. And, getting some games to work is even worse. But, that's not really the fault of Linux as much as it is the company's who produce the product. Then again you can't really blame a for-profit company for not producing a Linux versus of their product considering the OS only holds what.... 2% of the market?

    If the user is the type who only uses the computer for basic operations like the occasional text editor, surfing the web, checking email - so on - then a fresh install of Ubuntu, Mint, et al if perfectly fine without having to do any tweaking... But, as people become more and more reliant of their computers - 'surfing the web' becomes only a small part of the picture.
    The Wine part of your post has nothing to do with this topic, and the ease of use of Linux as a whole. As much as I love Wine, Wine isn't - and never will be - viable in the long term. Installing Windows apps on Linux is NOT what Linux users are supposed to do, so that's why it's so difficult. As for other tasks, please name a task that does not involve diving really deep into the system that can't be done by a GUI in Ubuntu.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    I view this entire argument as rather suspicious and, quite possibly, irrational.

    Anyone familiar with Eric S. Raymond's seminal "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" will likely recognize the inherent fallacy of debating "direction" in connection with the F/OSS community and it's greatest single product, Linux. Given that Ubuntu is simply a part of Linux, one can only judge the rightness or wrongness of it's own "direction" in reference to those who are generating it, and that would be Canonical.

    Otherwise, it's like trying to ask "Is development of the aerodynamic shape of a wing going in the right direction or not?" without considering anything specific, like who is doing the development.

    If you're talking about the 50,000 foot view of the entire vehicle industry, you really can't say if it's right or wrong. If you're talking about Boeing, then it's right. If you're talking about Honda, then it probably isn't.

    So, what specifically is meant by direction? Is "direction" now a code word for something specific?

  4. #44
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    If Ubuntu is going in the direction you like then it is going in the right direction. If it is not then use a Distribution that is, simple really.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Personally, I'm a big fan of the direction that ubuntu is going. I think that the only complaint I could make is about the ability to customize things like a theme. By this, what is it the 3rd iteration of unity as a release, it would seem that ubuntu should have theme changing/installation built in.

    To me, it's not a deal breaker as there are utilities I can install to do so, but my gut says it should have been in place by the LTS release. With that being said, I love the Unity interface and don't find it to be awkward at all, but as with most things, it's my preference.

  6. #46
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterGaribaldi View Post
    I view this entire argument as rather suspicious and, quite possibly, irrational.

    Anyone familiar with Eric S. Raymond's seminal "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" will likely recognize the inherent fallacy of debating "direction" in connection with the F/OSS community and it's greatest single product, Linux. Given that Ubuntu is simply a part of Linux, one can only judge the rightness or wrongness of it's own "direction" in reference to those who are generating it, and that would be Canonical.

    Otherwise, it's like trying to ask "Is development of the aerodynamic shape of a wing going in the right direction or not?" without considering anything specific, like who is doing the development.

    If you're talking about the 50,000 foot view of the entire vehicle industry, you really can't say if it's right or wrong. If you're talking about Boeing, then it's right. If you're talking about Honda, then it probably isn't.

    So, what specifically is meant by direction? Is "direction" now a code word for something specific?
    Ubuntu develops fast. That's great.
    But it just seems that Ubuntu is sometimes developing too fast or so. My experience is that there are getting bugs and other annoyances into Ubuntu (as explained earlier in this thread). This way Ubuntu is moving towards M$/windows (from my point of view).

    Logically the question follows: is that a good direction?
    (Or, if you don't agree with my experience; is this the way Ubuntu intends to go?)

    I wasn't asking for "the true answer", merely for opinion.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Ubuntu is going to be fine and here's why:

    We all know that one issue of concern is that the distributions are being release a little too quickly, but that's neither here nor there - the point of this is to express why I think Ubuntu is going to be just fine. So, with that said - here are the reasons.

    Ubuntu Users

    Let's remember that Ubuntu is Ubuntu. It's not Slackware or Linux from Scratch it has been designed for the average computer user - not the hard core Linux user who welcomes the challenge of compiling their own kernels. The fact is the average Ubuntu is, generally speaking, a bit more tech savvy than the average Windows user. Please note that I said generally speaking - not to imply that statement across the board.

    But, even with that said - let's be honest. While the average Ubuntu user may a bit more tech savvy or tech curious than the average Windows user the chances are good that the don't know what kernel version is running under the hood of their Ubuntu install. There is probably a good chance a lot of them don't know the difference between CUPS and Samba. That's not an insult, it's just a simple observation. Again, as I stated before Ubuntu is not Slackware. It isn't meant for the hard-core-let-me-configure-my-own-kernel-from-scratch user.

    Ubuntu has made Linux easier for the average user. It has taken a lot of the work out of getting a system up and running without many issues. The average user isn't interested in the challenge of setting up their network adapter through the terminal, or spend hours or even days trying to get their video card to perform as it was designed. With Ubuntu they don't have to - it works well out of the box - in most cases.

    When it comes to delivering a stable and installable OS that works out-of-the-box Ubuntu delivers quite nicely.

    When it comes to delivering an OS designed to cater to the average user - who doesn't have the technical skills of a professional programmer or network administrator - Ubuntu delivers quite nicely.

    Death of the Desktop

    Times are changing and the future of the clunky desktop is doomed. I travel and interact with a lot of business, of all different flavors, and the trend I see is that all of them have either already switched to laptops, are in the process of switching to laptops, or planning to switch. The home users are also gravitating to laptops now in increasing numbers. I truly believe the desktop is going the way of the home phone. It's only a matter of time before you won't be able to find them at Best Buy.

    Laptops are growing in power and capacity. At present there are certain benefits that a desktop still offers, but the gap is decreasing and quickly. With laptops and now tablets - the pressure, I believe, is too great for the desktop to keep up.

    Out of curiosity I went to Newegg and priced a new box (components needed to build) and compared the cost to that of a laptop. I looked for power and size. I found that a system (desktop) that was capable of running any game out there was only about $150 dollars cheaper than high end gaming laptop (also capable of running any game out there). Both with comparable memory and storage. The difference? I can take the laptop anywhere and use it anywhere. With the desktop I am chained to a desk.

    Ubuntu is well suited for laptops. I busted out a couple of older laptops I had in storage and put Ubuntu on them. Installed without a hitch - no problems at all. Ubuntu delivers when it comes to realizing the future of home and office computing. It seems highly compatible with laptops and netbooks.

    Unity

    Everyone hates Unity and complains that it "sucks." Actually, the Unity type environment is the wave of the future. ESPECIALLY with Gen Y'ers who are accustoms to touch screen smart phones and tablets. Why not design a desktop environment that fits the trends of now and the future?

    Unity isn't bad - and despite the complaints it is actually easier to navigate than the older tradition menu button. I hit one key, type a couple of letters (you don't have to type out the full name of the program) and there it is. And, yes Unity is customizable. There are plenty of how-to's on the web.

    Despite that - you don't have to use it.

    sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable
    sudo apt-get update
    sudo apt-get install cinnamon
    That's just an example of one alternative "cinnamon." It took me 15 seconds with Google to find it.

    Canonical aren't the only one's who see where the future of the desktop environment is going. Consider Gnome 3. There's something to it.

    My way or the Highway

    A lot of people complain that Canonical doesn't listen to the community - and maybe in some regards they don't. But, when you have 500,000 users all screaming for 500,000 different things - someone has to be the final say. I think thus far they are making good choices other than releasing a new distro every six months. It's still free. It's still customizable. It's still stable. It's still better than Windows.... It's still Linux.

    I think the creators of Ubuntu are taking the right steps by appropriately addressing their target users, by looking ahead to what the desktop environment is eventually going to be, by producing an OS with the laptop computer in mind...

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by ExSuSEusr; May 27th, 2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Thanks ExSuSEusr, great post!
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  9. #49
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post
    Death of the Desktop

    Times are changing and the future of the clunky desktop is doomed. I travel and interact with a lot of business, of all different flavors, and the trend I see is that all of them have either already switched to laptops, are in the process of switching to laptops, or planning to switch. The home users are also gravitating to laptops now in increasing numbers. I truly believe the desktop is going the way of the home phone. It's only a matter of time before you won't be able to find them at Best Buy.

    Laptops are growing in power and capacity. At present there are certain benefits that a desktop still offers, but the gap is decreasing and quickly. With laptops and now tablets - the pressure, I believe, is too great for the desktop to keep up.

    Out of curiosity I went to Newegg and priced a new box (components needed to build) and compared the cost to that of a laptop. I looked for power and size. I found that a system (desktop) that was capable of running any game out there was only about $150 dollars cheaper than high end gaming laptop (also capable of running any game out there). Both with comparable memory and storage. The difference? I can take the laptop anywhere and use it anywhere. With the desktop I am chained to a desk.

    Ubuntu is well suited for laptops. I busted out a couple of older laptops I had in storage and put Ubuntu on them. Installed without a hitch - no problems at all. Ubuntu delivers when it comes to realizing the future of home and office computing. It seems highly compatible with laptops and netbooks.


    I don't believe the Death of the Desktop Machine will occur anytime soon. There will be a significant reduction in sales volume especially in the consumer "High Street" stores.

    However, there still remains many task that can really only be best done on the Desktop platform. There has been many big advances in mobile computing they they still on the whole provide a mobile computing extension.

    That said there are many users for which the style of their computer needs are such the Notebook and even the Tablet is all they need, and some just a Smartphone will suffice.

    As for Unity and Unity like DE's, things evolve, if one does not adapt one stagnates, I can still remember the whole GUI debate, the Unity debate gives me a keen sense of Deja Vu.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Is Ubuntu moving in the right direction?

    Well sure at present there are still some tasks that desktops still perform better than a laptop - I can't dispute that. But, I think in the future the only way you're going to be able to "have" a desktop system is to build it.

    The only people I know who have them now are a couple of friends who use a box as a media center for their home - and another friend who's a serious gamer. Everyone else has laptops.

    Go into any electronics store and look at the rows and rows of laptops - then off to the side you'll a small section for the desktop systems.

    Not saying that desktop systems are useless or that they are going to be gone tomorrow - My point was that Ubuntu ala Canonical is going in the right direction by making this OS - in what seems to ME - a lot more laptop friendly than desktop. Maybe my opinion is too clouded by own personal experiences - but it just seems to me that they are doing a good job of making this OS install and run smoothly on laptops. On desktops? I've had nothing but trouble trying to get it work as smoothly as it does on a laptop.

    I see desktop systems in the same place as DVD's are now. Remember when you'd go into Best Buy and you'd have rows and rows of DVD's? Now? It's rows and rows of Blu Rays and a small section of traditional DVDs. To me - the desktop system is in the same place. Sure, some people still use 'em. But, like the technology with movie media delivery - it's evolved and it's only a matter of time before they're gone. Maybe not tomorrow, or next year, or even in the next few years - but in our lifetime? Absolutely.

    I agree with everything else you said - today's computer users do the following:

    - Play games.
    - Watch videos.
    - Post their status updates.
    - Check email.
    - Work (career related material).
    - Pay bills / Manage their budget.
    - Edit photographs.
    - Maybe a little MS Office / Open Office work here and there.
    - More video watching.
    - Other misc. programs like Rosetta Stone, et al.

    A lot of people have commented that most people just use their computer to check email, facebook, and Youtube. I don't believe that. The "computer" has become an integral part of our lives. There is no escape.

    In the list above I didn't even mention loading media on their MP3 players, or setting up home entertainment systems. The list could go on.

    Ubuntu - and to be fair - so does Mint - so does Fedora - so do a lot of other distros (depending on your level of ability) allow to do everything I listed above without costing you a single penny. Why is Ubuntu going in the right direction? As I said before - they allow the average user to do all those things without having to master the terminal.

    I agree with you on Unity as well. I like Unity. I hated it at first, probably for the same reasons a lot of other people hated it. It was new. But, after learning it? It IS faster than the old worn out, traditional start button. Just for fun I conducted a little experiment. I logged into my Mint install (into Cinnamon) and timed how long it took to navigate to Banshee through the menu button. 6 Seconds. Then I logged into my Ubuntu install and did the same. 3 Seconds. Half the time. Half the time to hit the super key, type a B, and hit enter.

    Yet, people complain... I won't lie... I was one of them too at first. As I stated in my write up - a lot of Gen X'ers and most of the Gen Y'ers are used to touch screen smart phones. It only makes sense to develop an interface that reflects what they're accustomed to.

    Canonical isn't the only player looking ahead. You think it's a coincidence that Gnome 3 is similar. I don't who borrowed from who, or whatever. They see it and they're responding.

    And, no I don't work for Canonical. I just realized how good we as Ubuntu users have it - and most don't realize it. Sure, it's not perfect - but what ever is?

    A lot of folks complain about this or that - me too - I complained as well - but in the end - we have been GIVEN a stable and pretty damn cool OS - for free. We have access to software that commercially would cost us hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars - for free. No, it's not perfect, no in many cases it's not as good as the commercial product (ala Photoshop), but it is what it is. The folks who are developing these programs aren't getting a dime for their efforts - yet people want to sit there and complain because it doesn't do this or that. If it's so bad - why aren't THEY learning python and contributing something?

    I am sure in the end Canonical has a monetary motive... why wouldn't they? Money is what makes the world go round and round. And, programmers gotta eat too.

    The beauty of Ubuntu, of Linux - is that you always have a choice. Don't like Ubuntu anymore, don't like Unity anymore? Fine, you can go back to Microsoft and spend your hard earned money on a product full of security holes that devours your systems resources, and end up paying for everything you install. Or, you can educate yourself in python and other languages and download Linux from Scratch and have at it.

    If it wasn't for Ubuntu I honestly do not believe Linux as a whole would be growing in popularity, nor would be used on laptops straight from the factory. Sure, it might be sold for servers - but for the home? You can thank Ubuntu for that.

    I say cut Canon some slack and lay off Unity - at the very least give it a fair chance - customize it a bit and if you just can't get past it - install Cinnamon, etc....
    Last edited by ExSuSEusr; May 28th, 2012 at 06:01 AM.
    "Only because the richest software company on the planet is utterly incompetent, and incapable of building a secure operating system. -- Carla Schroder

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