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Thread: Continuing changes to Tutorials and Tips - please read

  1. #51
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    I think the Wiki format is very friendly and wonderful for beginners.

    A lot of hard work clearly went into both the presentation and editing.

    I do have a couple of concerns, and they mainly involve non-beginners finding information quickly in the Wiki format.

    If I'm looking for something relatively specific (some question involving streaming, transcoding or similar), I may be able to find something relevant in the wiki documentation, but there doesn't appear to be a substantive place to have the active discussions which bring that documentation to life and also serve to highlight those places the documentation can be expanded.

    The level of clicks required to get to information related to a specific area of interest also seems to have increased from the forum format. I think this may be slightly inevitable in a wiki-style format, but maybe it's something to keep in mind.

    For example, if I'm looking for a wiki section containing articles related to transcoding, how many clicks does it take to get there from the front page?

    If I'm someone who doesn't know what transcoding is, yet I'm searching for that kind of functionality, minimizing the clicks it takes to access that level of granularity in the documentation is going to ensure more people get the documentation they need.

    Anyway, those are just a couple of small points. I'm quite impressed with how polished the wiki is at this point.

    Thanks again to all those who've maintained/expanded/evolved the documentation over the years!

  2. #52
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    I noticed today that I no longer have the option to Edit posts on my Howtos i.e. the Edit button is missing. I've looked on other threads outside of Tutorials & Tips and the Edit button is still there on all my posts, so it seems an intentional change to T&T.

    If this is the case, then I suggest the Howto thread be totally closed and a line added at the top to indicate it is stale - so users know to use the wiki site only. But as it stands, it appears that you can make new posts in the howtos (indicating they are still active/current).

    Thanks

  3. #53
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    Yes, we put a 24 hour limit on editing posts. We may relax that a bit, but most users do not need to edit posts after 24 hours.

    This sort of affects stickies and tutorials the most. We can grant editing privileges if needed (pm an admin to arrange a time) and we can see how it all settles out.

    My 2c is to use wiki, as outlined multiple times in this thread.

    Comments - add them to the FC agenda

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/

    If you add an item to the agenda, please show up at the meeting.
    There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth...not going all the way, and not starting.
    --Prince Gautama Siddharta

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  4. #54
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    I should add, we have a whole team of forums members available to help migrate to and support the wiki effort. We even wrote a script to transcribe forms posts to wiki format.

    Help is available, all you have to do is ask.

    Otherwise, the wiki team is transcribing the information and working in conjunction with documentation team.
    There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth...not going all the way, and not starting.
    --Prince Gautama Siddharta

    #ubuntuforums web interface

  5. #55
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi.zazen View Post
    Yes, we put a 24 hour limit on editing posts. We may relax that a bit, but most users do not need to edit posts after 24 hours.

    This sort of affects stickies and tutorials the most. We can grant editing privileges if needed (pm an admin to arrange a time) and we can see how it all settles out.

    My 2c is to use wiki, as outlined multiple times in this thread.

    Comments - add them to the FC agenda

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/

    If you add an item to the agenda, please show up at the meeting.
    I am totally supportive of the move to the wiki's. Since the Howto's in question have already been moved, I've flagged them to be Closed so that there's no ambiguity whether they are current or not.

    Thanks

  6. #56
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    The pages I have seen seem to 'dead-end' at the page. Most other wiki sites that I have seen and used typically have a list of categories at the bottom that the page is associated with...which allow people to click on to see related articles.

    Even though I see a list of All Categories, there seems to be a disconnect when you end up on a wiki page.

    For example, when you look at this wiki page, you can see a list of related pages that the author has added to make it easier to find page which are directly related but even if the author did not include those links, they could all be found (along with other pages created even after that article) by clicking the "Modeling" or "Blender" category links at the very bottom.

    It would be nice if each-and-every article contains one or more ubuntu-specific categories such as the desktop, server, xubuntu, kubuntu, etc. as well as what version(s) that apply as a basis for all articles. Being able to list all articles related to the following categories could be extremely useful to somebody interested in what was written for them: Ubuntu, Server, Version 12. If this wiki can eventually do this, it would be an amazing tool for finding "information" rather than just a collection of data.

    How would the following articles be related and found on the wiki?

    How to Install and Configure Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
    How to Install and Configure a Nagios monitoring server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
    How to Install and Configure a MySQL server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
    How to Install and Configure a MediaWiki server (prerequisite is the server install and MySQL pages above)

    The titles of wiki pages are usually the single most important aspect to creating a page along with correctly associating the content to the proper categories. How would one go about picking the best title for a wiki article? The above examples can be worded in many different ways.

    Since the above tutorials are a bit niche, how can that be reflected and differentiated from other similar articles? Examples: Nagios is compiled from source rather than from the Ubuntu distro in order to have the latest version and absolute control where everything is located. MediaWiki is compiled from source rather than the Ubuntu distro mainly to make use of a separate dedicated MySQL server...unlike many other tutorials (and even the Ubuntu distro) that expect everything to be on the same server.

    I might be missing the boat since I am not entirely familiar with the wiki but the articles seem to disappear into a hole (reach a dead end)

    I saw the earlier post about the vb wiki and it presents a LOT of information in an organized way. However, I think that wiki app is a highly customized front-end which happens to use a wiki back-end. Would probably be difficult to reproduce with a pure wiki site. But then again, the Ubuntu wiki site also seems to be a customized front-end using a wiki back-end.

    Other wiki sites I have used that make good use of categories and organizing pages so they can be found easily are The Nexus Wiki and The Elder Scrolls CS Wiki. I mention those sites not only because I am familiar with them but they also represent the kind of structure for most wiki sites I have used which seem to be good repositories of information...not just collections of data.

    As for discussions of the wiki pages, I thought the "discussions" or "talk" page associated with a wiki page was the perfect place to discuss issues/questions about the article...but I do not see that feature on the Ubuntu wiki. Here is an example of a "talk" page for a wiki article.

    Other members brought up concerns with community wiki pages regarding the loss of control over the article. Obviously, when a tutorial can be edited by anyone, there can be problems in the direction or intent of an article being changed from edits but that can be controlled to an extent by being clear as to "why" things are the way they are in the article as well as "subscribing" to the article to be informed whenever a change is made...which you can then review to see if you agree with it or not and thus make additional changes or revert the change and mention the issue on a talk page (if there is one).

    When looking at any history page on the wiki, I can hover my mouse over a member's name and it will show the IP of that member in the tooltip. Please tell me this is an unintended bug and not something that the Ubuntu wiki team considers as information that should be shared with the general public. It seems to be in direct contrast to the general policies related to PC security.

    LHammonds

  7. #57
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by LHammonds View Post
    The pages I have seen seem to 'dead-end' at the page. Most other wiki sites that I have seen and used typically have a list of categories at the bottom that the page is associated with...which allow people to click on to see related articles.

    Even though I see a list of All Categories, there seems to be a disconnect when you end up on a wiki page.

    For example, when you look at this wiki page, you can see a list of related pages that the author has added to make it easier to find page which are directly related but even if the author did not include those links, they could all be found (along with other pages created even after that article) by clicking the "Modeling" or "Blender" category links at the very bottom.

    It would be nice if each-and-every article contains one or more ubuntu-specific categories such as the desktop, server, xubuntu, kubuntu, etc. as well as what version(s) that apply as a basis for all articles. Being able to list all articles related to the following categories could be extremely useful to somebody interested in what was written for them: Ubuntu, Server, Version 12. If this wiki can eventually do this, it would be an amazing tool for finding "information" rather than just a collection of data.

    How would the following articles be related and found on the wiki?

    How to Install and Configure Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
    How to Install and Configure a Nagios monitoring server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
    How to Install and Configure a MySQL server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
    How to Install and Configure a MediaWiki server (prerequisite is the server install and MySQL pages above)

    The titles of wiki pages are usually the single most important aspect to creating a page along with correctly associating the content to the proper categories. How would one go about picking the best title for a wiki article? The above examples can be worded in many different ways.

    Since the above tutorials are a bit niche, how can that be reflected and differentiated from other similar articles? Examples: Nagios is compiled from source rather than from the Ubuntu distro in order to have the latest version and absolute control where everything is located. MediaWiki is compiled from source rather than the Ubuntu distro mainly to make use of a separate dedicated MySQL server...unlike many other tutorials (and even the Ubuntu distro) that expect everything to be on the same server.

    I might be missing the boat since I am not entirely familiar with the wiki but the articles seem to disappear into a hole (reach a dead end)

    I saw the earlier post about the vb wiki and it presents a LOT of information in an organized way. However, I think that wiki app is a highly customized front-end which happens to use a wiki back-end. Would probably be difficult to reproduce with a pure wiki site. But then again, the Ubuntu wiki site also seems to be a customized front-end using a wiki back-end.

    Other wiki sites I have used that make good use of categories and organizing pages so they can be found easily are The Nexus Wiki and The Elder Scrolls CS Wiki. I mention those sites not only because I am familiar with them but they also represent the kind of structure for most wiki sites I have used which seem to be good repositories of information...not just collections of data.

    As for discussions of the wiki pages, I thought the "discussions" or "talk" page associated with a wiki page was the perfect place to discuss issues/questions about the article...but I do not see that feature on the Ubuntu wiki. Here is an example of a "talk" page for a wiki article.
    Wiki is community maintained and you should feel free to improve the wiki pages, that is the whole point.

    We have an entire team of people working on wiki pages, free free to join the mailing lists and start contributing.

    Otherwise , complaining here is going to fall on deaf ears. I doubt the wiki team is going to search these forums for feedback. I would also remind you that complaints from non-contributing members tend not to get much traction.

    Other members brought up concerns with community wiki pages regarding the loss of control over the article. Obviously, when a tutorial can be edited by anyone, there can be problems in the direction or intent of an article being changed from edits but that can be controlled to an extent by being clear as to "why" things are the way they are in the article as well as "subscribing" to the article to be informed whenever a change is made...which you can then review to see if you agree with it or not and thus make additional changes or revert the change and mention the issue on a talk page (if there is one).

    When looking at any history page on the wiki, I can hover my mouse over a member's name and it will show the IP of that member in the tooltip. Please tell me this is an unintended bug and not something that the Ubuntu wiki team considers as information that should be shared with the general public. It seems to be in direct contrast to the general policies related to PC security.

    LHammonds
    I do not understand this at all. I think it is a matter of your misunderstanding of licensing issues.

    These forums, and the entire community, is not about control, it is about collaboration, see the Code of Conduct.

    If you wish to own or control content, this is not the place or community, use your own personal web pages, and use appropriate copyrights.

    Many people have dual content, I do. I contribute to the wiki and I have personal web pages.

    Furthermore, times are changing. There was a time when the forums were an independent community, and to a large extent Tips and Tutorials is a remnant of that era.

    With integration into the larger community, this section is becoming depreciated and I anticipate continued progress.

    If you do not want to contribute, that is fine, no one is forcing you to do so. But wiki really is better and I would highly encourage you to contribute to the cause.

    But again, if you are looking for "control", this is the wrong place.
    There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth...not going all the way, and not starting.
    --Prince Gautama Siddharta

    #ubuntuforums web interface

  8. #58
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    Hello, all.

    Regarding the changes to this area, I was wondering: since my thread is now closed, and I've migrated all valuable information to its new wiki page, where can I post annoucements regarding the information on the wiki? Where is the appropriate place?

    The wiki page contains instructions on adding my PPA (which contains custom builds on Unity). When I push new builds, like I recently did, I'd like to update users and inform them of the changes (i.e. post the changelog).

    Thanks!
    Laptop: [AMD Vision A4-3300M | 8GB RAM | ATI Radeon 6480G | Ubuntu 12.04 64-bit]

    Studio Box: [AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ | 4GB RAM | Nvidia 210 | M-Audio FastTrackPro | KXStudio 11.04 64-bit | 2.6.31-rt14-custom | KDE 4.6.5]

  9. #59
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012412

    Is the thread for discussing the wiki - it's linked to from your old thread

  10. #60
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    Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfy View Post
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012412

    Is the thread for discussing the wiki - it's linked to from your old thread
    Thanks, Elfy! I figured that's where it should go, but I wanted to make sure.
    Laptop: [AMD Vision A4-3300M | 8GB RAM | ATI Radeon 6480G | Ubuntu 12.04 64-bit]

    Studio Box: [AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ | 4GB RAM | Nvidia 210 | M-Audio FastTrackPro | KXStudio 11.04 64-bit | 2.6.31-rt14-custom | KDE 4.6.5]

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