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Thread: Wayland Live CD

  1. #191
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by cecilpierce View Post
    @ nerdopolis

    Hows it going with the kdelibs? having any luck?
    Not seen any one on here all week

    Good luck, keep up the fine work.
    KDELIBS might have to wait, I'm getting all sorts of unresolved symbol errors, even in the programs that build with it. It's still in early development though, so it might have to wait.

    Maybe I can instead figure out why some GNOME apps fail with GTKwayland to GTKx11 cast errors...
    The glass is at 50% of its capacity.


  2. #192
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    @nerdopolis

    Hows it going with LD_LIBRARY thing, any luck ?

  3. #193
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by cecilpierce View Post
    @nerdopolis

    Hows it going with LD_LIBRARY thing, any luck ?
    Kdelibs frameworks seems to be too new to work against these versions of QT... ...I'll probably have to wait, and in the meantime try to find some smaller apps to recompile for Wayland toolkits.
    The glass is at 50% of its capacity.


  4. #194
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    I'd like to try to clear up some confusion I'm seeing in this thread.

    The program you seem to be calling wayland is not wayland. It's a program called weston. The one with the terminal with the yellow border, and the panel at the top with a few icons. While for X, there is actually a single program called "X", there is no program called wayland. Wayland is a protocol, not a program. A protocol for allowing applications, including a window manager, to talk directly to your video hardware. So all existing window managers are expected to add support for the wayland protocol, by using the wayland libraries, so they can become wayland compositors. So the complaints about the interface that weston provides are pointless, you'll get the full window managers you've known and loved in time.

    Weston is just an example compositor to play with until full fledged compositors are ported / developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by 23dornot23d View Post
    already this is the only Distro that picks up my TV and uses it properly ....
    This has NOTHING to do with wayland or any work nerdopolis has done. Probably 99.99% of this CD is just the next release of kubuntu, which is ubuntu + the KDE desktop. Anything you do with this CD outside of weston you could do just as easily, if not easier, if you just downloaded the latest kubuntu Precise 12.04 image from ubuntu.

    I saw a couple questions of why more people aren't coming to this thread to talk about the possible amazing future of wayland. Why would they do that, when it has already been done on the wayland mailing list?

    Yes, you can do fully 3D, Minority Report style desktops with wayland. Just like you could have done with compiz and other compositing window managers. With wayland you just don't have X in the way anymore. 3D desktops have been around for a long time. The problem is coming up with something practical enough that anybody will use it.

    With wayland, your application allocates a buffer (image) directly in your video card's memory, draws to it using OpenGL (can easily be hardware accelerated 3D), then tells the compositor (window manager) it's done drawing a frame, and the compositor merges that application's output with the others to create the full desktop image (compositing), writes that composite back to video memory, and tells the video card to output it to your display.

    "You could just as easily make crazy things like, wrap each window around a 3d ball, and have all your windows bouncing around your screen. When you click on a ball, it opens up flat on your screen for you to work with. Any of the slick Minority Report-like UI’s in the movies would be relatively easy to make. The kicker is all of these environments would be equally easy to code." - http://kdubois.net/?p=1217


    I'm very impressed with what nerdopolis has achieved with this live cd, and it's great to see people discovering what does and doesn't work.

  5. #195
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdopolis View Post
    Maybe I can instead figure out why some GNOME apps fail with GTKwayland to GTKx11 cast errors...
    I get the impression a lot of gtk apps actually use a combination of gtk plus some X library stuff. That won't work. Porting to wayland requires removing the X library calls - pure gtk. I'm not familiar with the errors you're seeing, but my guess is this is what you're hitting.

  6. #196
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdopolis View Post
    Kdelibs frameworks seems to be too new to work against these versions of QT... ...I'll probably have to wait, and in the meantime try to find some smaller apps to recompile for Wayland toolkits.
    Hey! How are you comming along?

    I've been watching svn progress, looks like your pretty busy, hope its going well.

    I tried to compile wayland stuff in one of my precise installs and wow what a nightmare
    But it did work a little but complains about alot of things that I know nothing about

    Later, Cecil

  7. #197
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by cecilpierce View Post
    Hey! How are you comming along?

    I've been watching svn progress, looks like your pretty busy, hope its going well.

    I tried to compile wayland stuff in one of my precise installs and wow what a nightmare
    But it did work a little but complains about alot of things that I know nothing about

    Later, Cecil
    I'm restructuring the build, where it no longer has to redownload, and reinstall the packages, and where it doesn't have to clone the source for each build. Instead all it does is recompile the source. It does leave a 16GB file on my drive now, but this should make the builds faster...
    The glass is at 50% of its capacity.


  8. #198
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdopolis View Post
    I'm restructuring the build, where it no longer has to redownload, and reinstall the packages, and where it doesn't have to clone the source for each build. Instead all it does is recompile the source. It does leave a 16GB file on my drive now, but this should make the builds faster...
    OK, I'll keep watching and waiting for the big BOMB !


  9. #199
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    @Darxus
    With wayland, your application allocates a buffer (image) directly in your video card's memory, draws to it using OpenGL (can easily be hardware accelerated 3D), then tells the compositor (window manager) it's done drawing a frame, and the compositor merges that application's output with the others to create the full desktop image (compositing), writes that composite back to video memory, and tells the video card to output it to your display.
    How can I write frames directly to this buffer on a Nvidia Graphics Card .... to see it in action .....

    Will now try to understand what Wayland does ..... Protocol

    Quote from it ......

    The new API was to be called GEM (Graphics Execution Manager) -
    Dave Airlie had developed a memory management module they called translation table maps (TTM).
    TTM was designed to move the memory buffers destined for graphics devices back and forth between graphic device memory and system memory.


    Both TTM and GEM try to solve the 3D acceleration problem in the Linux graphics stack by integrating directly with X to get to the device to perform GPU operations. Both attempt to bring order to the crowd of libraries like OpenGL (which depends on X), Qt (depends on X) and GTK+ (also X). The problem was that X stands between all of these libraries and the kernel, and the kernel is the way to the device driver, and the ultimately to the GPU.
    the article tends to explain X .... but will look for more information on it .....

    Passing data to a stack and then passing it to the graphics frame buffer .... how it does this is maybe something I should be looking at to fully understand what is going on here.

    Also downloading the daily build of kubuntu 12.04 - will let you know if it works as well as version 2 of RB-W2 *(Rebecca Black - Wayland V2) as this one I know for a fact is
    a very good install for me ...... also the 12.04 kubuntu daily build is very good ...... and does pick up my
    graphics just fine now.

    Think this is what we are waiting for - but how will people develop it - needs plenty of information so people can
    do the following and make a full working system ..... look forward to the ones with the skills coming up with the
    ideas and making them work .......
    Weston is just an example compositor to play with until full fledged compositors are ported / developed.
    Also looking forward to a new release ..... and any new improvements ....
    * ( would like a link to some laymans diagrams showing in detail the workings of this - a flowchart maybe of where it is now )
    All good documentation to show how Weston and Wayland work ..... as I am a 3D designer .... my main interest is the
    output ...... but all background information is good ..... its knowing where to look to get the best info .... mailing lists
    take some trawling through ..... this thread is good as it can serve as a open record .....
    Last edited by 23dornot23d; March 23rd, 2012 at 03:10 AM.

  10. #200
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    Re: Wayland Live CD

    @23dornot23d

    "Will now try to understand what Wayland does ..... Protocol"

    Nice link Keith, let me know if you find some more good info, Cec

    http://arstechnica.com/open-source/g...to-wayland.ars

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