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Thread: Release schedule discussion

  1. #21
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    The process of Alpha, Beta, RC, etc should at least be a little more reserved IMO. Standard users don't go into launchpad and developers pages, etc. The only reason they get this unstable releases is because it's easy and they're heavily promoted. I can get how that is apparently beneficial for Canonical in short-term - a lot of people talking about it, creating blogs with impressions, questionable fixes, etc. Keeps Ubuntu hot on Analytics. But the end-results are a lot of newbies messing up their PCs, posting bad PR, threatening us to move to mint (lol) and creating environments that won't be cleanly updated to finished version when its released, etc.

    And, in the end, what can average users report or test? The bug reports are generally invalid or incomplete anyway.
    Last edited by effenberg0x0; October 17th, 2011 at 01:05 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by effenberg0x0 View Post
    The process of Alpha, Beta, RC, etc should at least be a little more reserved IMO. Standard users don't go into launchpad and developers pages, etc. The only reason they get this unstable releases is because it's easy and they're heavily promoted. I can get how that is apparently beneficial for Canonical in short-term - a lot of people talking about it, creating blogs with impressions, questionable fixes, etc. Keeps Ubuntu hot on Analytics. But the end-results are a lot of newbies messing up their PCs, posting bad PR, threatening us to move to mint (lol) and creating environments that won't be cleanly updated to finished version when its released, etc.

    And, in the end, what can average users report or test? The bug reports are generally invalid or incomplete anyway.
    The reason bug reports are marked invalid, or incomplete, is as usual, they don't read the documentation:

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs

    If they use apport to gather data, and show how to reproduce the bug, it will get some action.

    In a perfect world, everybody should be a competent computer user, instead of being a competent operating system user, that is the biggest problem. The majority of people spend a lot of time memorizing how to do a task on their computer, instead of learning how to use the system, and this leads to many of the problems they are running into doing the upgrade, and changing from one operating system to another.

    I always tell people to look for the similarities in different programs, instead of looking at the differences, there are usually many functions that are the same, no matter what operating system or program they are using.

  3. #23
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Something crashes, apport pops up, you send in a valid bug report with high importance. Quite useful and no rocket science.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    In a perfect world, everybody should be a competent computer user, instead of being a competent operating system user, that is the biggest problem.
    The only reason people join the forums is because the recipe they tried to follow went wrong. I help a couple guys that clearly mentioned that they uninstalled lightdm and installed following from some Linus "guru" that rights in some popular PC magazine... The recipe failed. You look at the guys profiles, they have like 1 to 3 posts in the forum.

    1) What seems to be the problem? "-My PC won't boot and sound doesn't work." Well, one would imagine that a PC that can't boot probably can't play media files. Later, I found out he was inside Gnome. For him, since that didn't look like unity, he hadn't properly booted.

    2) "-I'm stuck at the login screen, but I can't login with my password." I tried everything to be sure this guy had lightdm installed, owned his $home, file perms ok, had compiz, etc. He kept doing the tests and telling me it was OK. Then I learned he was trying to type a password at a frozen Plymouth screen. Insane hun?

    And there's a lot more. And they'll never report anything. Apport or non-apport... They'll show here by the next release, when some recipe they hear on school, read from the magazine Linux guru, etc fails.

    I really would like if this kind of user would use a LTS for a long time, a years or maybe more, unaware of the existence of alpha/beta versions, while advanced users would do their job of testing / reporting.

    Maybe Ubuntu could keep strong in media by releasing insignificant updates, like backgrounds, sounds, new breeds of neko cat to run after the mouse pointer, etc. Focus on small applications, like happens today in the mobile world. WHile the really important work is happening isolated from all that.

  5. #25
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cariboo907 View Post
    The reason bug reports are marked invalid, or incomplete, is as usual, they don't read the documentation:
    Computer Science 101
    Read the Documentation!

    My prof hounded us on this one. We can lead a horse to water but we can't make him drink it.

    However.. with new users it's kind of eccentric to just openly tell them to read the "man" pages. They are already frustrated and to just throw those off-centered buzzwords and terms at them will definitely send them back to windows or mac.

    I dunno .. it's hard to encourage people to read documentation and it's hard enough skipping through links as it is. Perhaps there is a program that is in the repos that help centralize the Ubuntu documentation.

    At university we had to do the footwork.

    Rather than go on with it here ..I wrote a small paragraph here:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...0#post11356140
    Last edited by ventrical; October 17th, 2011 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Computers are so ubiquitous these days that the average person thinks of them as an appliance like a toaster or a vacuum cleaner ,many people had problems trying to figure out how to program their VCR's and we expect them to know how to diagnose and describe a computer problem ? .

    The problem of getting people to read the documentation is not just with computers . As a mechanic by profession I can tell you without hessitation that the problem exists there also . " You mean I have to put oil in it ? " and "I didn't read the owners manual" are things I hear far too often .
    if it ain't broke you haven't tweaked it enough

  7. #27
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by madjr View Post
    yes, releases every 1 or 2 years would be the best (like mandriva already shifted to 1 year release cycles).
    And here I thought LTS *was* every 2 years.

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  8. #28
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ronacc View Post
    Computers are so ubiquitous these days that the average person thinks of them as an appliance like a toaster or a vacuum cleaner ,many people had problems trying to figure out how to program their VCR's and we expect them to know how to diagnose and describe a computer problem ? .

    The problem of getting people to read the documentation is not just with computers . As a mechanic by profession I can tell you without hessitation that the problem exists there also . " You mean I have to put oil in it ? " and "I didn't read the owners manual" are things I hear far too often .
    We're instead making computers more like appliances. We don't even write out "Application" in full on certain platforms and manual file management is being phased out.

    The problem with computers in general is the expectation for people to learn. They have a profession and they're good at it. Computer Science, Information Technology, etc, are professions as well. You're expected to be able to drive your car and press the brakes, not know how your brakes work, that's someone else's job and you pay them for it.

  9. #29
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    But it got to a point in which the standard user got totally alienated from reality, to the point of not knowing the name of things.

    I can go to the mechanics and say:

    "I was inside my car then I put foot on thing, thing didn't react, heard sound of part scratching against stuff, pressed other thing, tried button, used the hand on the black part, but it didn't work. I'M GOING AWAY TO MINT!!"

    which is equal to

    "I'm stuck in black screen"

    There's something deeper in there. Why do people know a brake is a brake, but even if they use their PCs everyday and look at the screen everyday, they can't remember that grub is named grub, desktop, console/terminal, etc.

  10. #30
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    Re: Release schedule discussion

    People have to take a test to legally be able to drive a car. Simple as that. Car analogies always seem to carry over, but that one isn't there.

    You have to know what all the signs mean before you're allowed to _start_ learning how to drive. On a computer, you're only expected to know (poorly) things you've experienced. I still remember while the gimp was being removed from the cd, someone was explaining how easy it was to crop an image and didn't use the crop tool. That made me give up trying to keep it on the cd. (Using the select tool can be more versatile, but still...)

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