Downloading youtube videos

[psusi]

I noticed this person complaining about his thread asking how to download youtube videos being closed:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1820410

Regardless of anything they may say in their TOS, the US Supreme Court has upheld ( in the Sony vs Betamax case ) the right of the consumer to record videos for the purpose of time/format shifting, so you do have every right to download youtube videos, as long as you do not redistribute them.

Given that, closing this thread seems overzealous to me, and feels just like closing a thread asking how to use bit torrent, because "most bit torrents are illegal downloads".

Given that it is not illegal, how does this violate the forums TOS?

[bodhi.zazen]

Take up your disagreement with YouTube, we do not administrate that site here.

We do not support any type of pirating software or circumventing any type of license, EULA, or Terms of Service here.

[psusi]

I don't have a disagreement with youtube, I have one with you.

Youtube's TOS is invalid by law. Your attempts to defend it are no different than closing threads asking how to use sound juicer to rip music CDs to ogg, which the music companies tell you you can't do, but the courts say otherwise.

RIAA says you can't copy that music. Courts say you can. Discussion of how to do so is allowed here.

Youtube says you can't copy that video. Courts say you can. Discussion of how to do so is not allowed here.

See the double standard?

[bodhi.zazen]

I don't have a disagreement with youtube, I have one with you.

Youtube's TOS is invalid by law. Your attempts to defend it are no different than closing threads asking how to use sound juicer to rip music CDs to ogg, which the music companies tell you you can't do, but the courts say otherwise.

RIAA says you can't copy that music. Courts say you can. Discussion of how to do so is allowed here.

Youtube says you can't copy that video. Courts say you can. Discussion of how to do so is not allowed here.

See the double standard?

So hire a lawyer and sue YoruTube to change their policies and we will abide by such a court decision. Until then we abide by the (Youtube) posted terms of agreement.

It otherwise sounds as if you have a fundamental disagreement with not only YouTube, but now with the Ubuntu Forums as well.

If you disagree with the policies on these forums the appropriate thing to do is to close your account. I would be happy to take care of that detail for you.

[psusi]

So hire a lawyer and sue YoruTube to change their policies and we will abide by such a court decision. Until then we abide by the (Youtube) posted terms of agreement.

They are under no such obligation. They can make whatever claims they want in their TOS and I can't stop them. They however, can not enforce them against me in court.

If you disagree with the policies on these forums the appropriate thing to do is to close your account. I would be happy to take care of that detail for you.

It is your enforcement of policy that is the problem, and the appropriate thing to do when one disagrees with policy is to take it up with the council, not take your ball and go home.

Your enforcement is the problem because you are not applying the same policy equally. The RIAA still makes claims that you are not allowed to rip the music cds they sell you to ogg and store them on your computer, so where is the outrage at violating their rules when people discuss doing so on these forums? You don't do that because people have the right to do so, regardless of any claims the RIAA makes.

This youtube situation is exactly the same, yet it is being treated differently.

Hell, we can even discuss ripping DVD content on the forums, and that actually IS illegal in the US, thanks to the DMCA.

[bodhi.zazen]

It is your enforcement of policy that is the problem, and the appropriate thing to do when one disagrees with policy is to take it up with the council, not take your ball and go home.

This has been discussed by the council many many times and you have been informed of the decision.

We will have to agree to disagree.

The only question I have is if you are willing to abide by the FC decision. If not, I think it best to disable your account.

[psusi]

When was this discussed, and where is this policy written down?

I thought that the policy was whether the activity was illegal or not, and therefore does not apply to ripping audio cds, and also then should not apply youtube videos. If there is another policy that is being applied here, then what is it?

[bodhi.zazen]

When was this discussed, and where is this policy written down?

I thought that the policy was whether the activity was illegal or not, and therefore does not apply to ripping audio cds, and also then should not apply youtube videos. If there is another policy that is being applied here, then what is it?

This is covered by the code of conduct.

Adult Content, Violence, Illegal Activity: Messages containing violent, sexually oriented, or illegal content or links to sites with this content will either be deleted or saved in the Jail as evidence. Messages with links to or suggesting illegal activity will also be deleted. Posting or linking to any of these could result in a ban.

While you may not agree with the definition, or you may not agree with it, you will be required to abide by it.

This is a dead horse, further debate will be taken as a sign you are unwilling to abide by our decision and I will close your account.

[psusi]

That is what I thought, and why you are wrong to apply it here, because it IS NOT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY for exactly the same reason that ripping music cds isn't.

And your openly hostile attitude and less and less veiled threats are unbecoming of your position, and constitute abuse of power. Discussing the (in)correct application of the CoC can in no way, be construed as violating the CoC.

[Iowan]

I'm currently visiting a facility that doesn't permit alcohol. There is a sign on the gate stating "No alcohol permitted". Is it illegal for me to possess or consume alcohol? No - but it's not permitted here (at the camp). The forums don't permit other OS bashing. Is it illegal? No - but it's still not permitted here.

Would you feel better if the CoC specifically prohibited YouTube downloads?
Would you feel better if discussion of CD/DVD ripping were also disallowed?

You should probably consider these rhetorical questions... I don't want to cause the debate that gets your account closed. Perhaps it's more a question of ethics than legality - but it should be apparent that the Forum Council intents to respect YouTube's ToS.