On that note, I stumbled upon this at Linux WatchOriginally Posted by richbarna
The Software Wars map
On that note, I stumbled upon this at Linux WatchOriginally Posted by richbarna
The Software Wars map
The idea of copyright did not exist in ancient times, when authors frequently copied other authors at length in works of non-fiction. This practice was useful, and is the only way many authors' works have survived even in part. -- Richard Stallman
America will be the last to adopt Linux on the desktop, for sure. I have been keeping abreast of Microsoft's fallout with China, actually. I also know about South Korea's "Linux city" and the $100 laptop project.Originally Posted by richbarna
Things are happening. They are. I just don't see it happening overnight.
If China forces people to use Linux, though, the Linux desktop marketshare will shoot up, just by virtue of China being 1/5 of the world's population!
No, it amounts to, yes we know how popular Linux is becoming, we know that the trend is to start using Linux, but please give us a chance. You know this so stop arguing the point its obvious that they recognize linux as a competitor.Originally Posted by SHodges
Ah, but here is a direct quote of what you originally saidOriginally Posted by SHodges
I won't even aruge that point anymore it's a dead issue. All you will say is that I should have been smart enough to read through to what you meant and that you were comparing the two and I should have figured it out. But this is a forum you must say what you mean and mean what you say, and for the record when UT2007 comes out it too will most likely support Linux.Originally Posted by SHodges
Ah, except it was sincere, and I was attempting to take this discussion to a more mature level, you just proved that you're here to argue, were you more mature you would have simply taken the moral high ground yourself and it would have made you look slighly more credible, obviously you didn't do that, fine by me. I will not sink to your level again. I was not angrey I was annoyed, you don't know me, stop telling me what I thought. The truth is, had you been more mature and not so insulting I would have thought better of your argument and at least made a better attempt to see it from your point of view, that is not the case. Finally don't ever attempt to make me sound like I am a lieing scoundrel who attempts to fake apologies just to look good, I truly should not have sunk to your level and for that I apologize. You need to learn to understand something, some people are sincere, that does not make them fake or corny because you may perhaps lack that sincerity, does not mean that everyone else does. In any case the point of this (thread) is not my persoanlity or yours, it is the future of microsoft so let us stick to that and not things like how intelligent someone may or may not be.Originally Posted by SHodges
I agree with most of that, but could you point out what exactly it disproves? I got the impression that you did not like Linux at first because you continually pointed out the negatives in Linux and postives in Windows, now that you have clarified this it makes your argument much more understandable, as it turns out there is not much of an argument as to "what is" but more of a disgreement as to the extent that "it is". Fill "it" in with whatever the issue being being discussed is.Originally Posted by SHodges
I think other have already answered this part of your post and there is little I have to add except this. How many people actually use the .NET suite? I have not met too many, besides the .NET suite is very handicapped in terms of allowing the user to program for multiply platforms. That said for what it is ment to do, it is a very good piece of software. IMO more people use photoshop then the .NET suite but I doubt that the "average" users does. I don't think Linux will gain amazing market share in the US any time soon, where Linux will really take off is in foreign Countries, (I think someone else already pointed out Bill Gate's trip to Brazil. ) Microsoft really began to take off (from my understanding) with Windows 95. By 98 they had essentially dominated the PC OS market within the United States. That gives them about 3 years. IF Linux can do the same with the developing countries (which seems to be what is happining) then some time in the near future Linux will develop a formidable Marketshare outside the US (and probably Europe). Which given the trend towards globalization will lead hardware companies and software developers to include Linux support for their products in order to grab a bigger share of the world's economy. In areas where Windows is dominante i would hope that the progression would be slower because people will need to learn to forget the sloppy pracitises the Windows has fostered in them, where as in other countries the people will be taught good computing practise from the begining.Originally Posted by SHodges
Infact many people have been sucessful in finding work arounds to uncooperative hardware vendors. For example the Ndiswrapper devs. and the people who are working on the rtx00 drivers for the ratlink wireless cards. The gaming issue is another one entirely and one that should be resolved in time, I discussed that issue earlier.Originally Posted by SHodges
Obviously SOMEONE does otherwise people would not have attempted to make a tool that alows ext2/3 to be viewable from inside Windows, you may have meant by that statment that the average user does not care about it, and in that respect your probably right. (Though we could be wrong) On the issue of your webpages not displaying correctly, I have seen ONE website that did that with me, so i agree it exsists, however 10%-15%??????!!!! I think that is a little high, could you please point us to at least, I dunno ten? Ten really useful websites that are not viewable via a Linux native browser. Many have already answered the music format issue, I'll just add that perhaps we can include a link in Ubuntu that directs people to the proper locations. Have you used Yast? It's a tool in SUSE that IMHO is more useful then the Control Panel in Windows. The point n click soultions that you talk about are becoming available, however I do belive that they should be implmented with caution. Linux is an entirely diffrent Operating System, I belive people will need to learn to use Linux WITH the command line,(hence I favor slower growth in the US and Europe) as we all already know the problems with executables. Just a point that I would like to make here, not neccessarly in context of this issue, many of the suggestions that are made for "beating" Windows tend to want Linux to do things like Windows, this is a bad idea, Linux is NOT Windows you will have to LEARN a little at the beggining. This will become less of a problem as the number of people who are born with a computer in their house increases.(again this is not necessarly directed at you Shodges).Originally Posted by SHodges
Edit: One more thing about mp3, Linspire has many proprietary format, has that really helpped their market share? No. Also to the issue of whether or not Windows is paying attention to Linux,the have a "Linux Lab", and they sued Linspre when it was Lindows. So yea they are keeping an eye on Linux. Does this imply that they are scared, no not by itself, but their are other indications they are at least wary of the OS that is slowly moving in on their territory.
Hmm, well in this case it may not have served you well to lose patients as I otherwise would have been more symapthetic to what you have said, (even though I would have still disagreed) In the end it seems that is where we are heading as Dapper now has gDebi (is that what it is called) and that is now what you do essentially.Originally Posted by SHodges
And I am not arguing about that. I agree. However I don't see why it should matter to you when someone does apoint a phiosphy behind something and pushs it further, after all the "father of GNU" Richard Stallman is "an activist".Originally Posted by SHodges
Ah, well thanx for clariflying that I was confused my self.Originally Posted by SHodges
Last edited by ihavenoname; June 8th, 2006 at 05:23 AM.
There are scripts for installers such as the ones anaconda, and autoyast. The fact is that there are (to the best of my knowledge) not computers that come from the manufacturer (Dell,HP,Gateway..etc) that already have Linux on them, so why in the world would linux have a restore disk? If your talking about a Linux installer that does install everything by itself, then theres is the blag install, u just need to type blagblagblag and it install the most common installation. When Linux comes pre-loaded on computers then a restore disk would be very simple to make, the tools are in place all that would be needed is for the installer to by directed to use the autoscript. (autoyast w/e) and those scripts to be properly formated.Originally Posted by azazel-
trueOriginally Posted by aysiu
I just have to say how true that is. Windows xp and 2000 do have some built in drivers, but not all. What happens when you need a driver? You donwload it. Kind of hard to do when Windows doesn't intall the driver for your Nic So you run the driver install CD that came with your Motherboard, and it complains about needing Direct X 9 because it's one of those all in one installers, and offers to download it for you!!! Duh, no net Good luck finding the driver on the disc because the directories all labled 0,1,2,3... What about your built in video card? Is it a sis, trident, Via, intel? The device manager in windows gives 0 details about that. Your sound card also, let's say you have a built in VIA sound card, head over to the manufactures website to get the driver, there are 3-5 different ones listed, with no way to dectect which one you have installed without figuring out the model # of your motherboard and getting the pdf for it. You have no clue how many FCC reference checks I've done to figure what kind of modem was install, and MAC lookups for NIC cards.Originally Posted by aysiu
And then the updates, OMG!!!!! windowsupdate.com, wait... checking system.....wait some more..... you must install these 3 components to use windows update. Restart.... update.... restart.... update.. (get the picture ). Then all of the software you need or want. Search all over the net for it, winamp.com, divx.com, download.com, don't forget your antivirus and spyblocker too.
It's a royal pain in the *** to install Windows. Takes me on average 3.5-4 hours to do a Windows install from scratch. It takes 1-1.5 hours to Ubuntu to the way I want it, and only 2 restarts not 12.
Last edited by disturbed1; June 8th, 2006 at 05:18 AM.
Linux user #196692 AMD x4 620 Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H 7gig DDR2 nVidia GT220
Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
i bravely foretell the future, microsoft will continue to flourish.
1. People will continue to use pirated Windows and never be introduced to Linux.
2. There are a lot of quality FREE software for Windows than Linux.
3. Major hardware manufacturers continue to see the world through Windows.
4. Every running pirated Windows is a potential Microsoft customer.
5. Computer educaiton (at least in our side of the world) uses Windows and teaches Visual Basic.
6. Quality Linux-based apps are being ported to Windows (i know, it's supposed to familiarize them with software available in Linux but that's not how the average user thinks).
7. Linux is understood only by geeks, techies, and profesionals.
The only problem of mr. gates is how to stop piracy and i have one good suggestion how to do it... HE SHOULD PROMOTE LINUX!
eventually they will give it away if it means that more people get into their drm or patented formats
After reading all the threads, I came to one conclosion MS is not going anywere soon( there here to stay for the longterm.), The way I see it, ubuntu and other linux distro's are getting easer and easer to use and more apeling.The way I also see the world economy going, more and more people have less and less money. So if 1+1=2 more people will start using linux and that includes the so called therd world countries. And when that starts to happen, linux will get stronger and stonger as an OS, it will be like a snow ball affect.
But MS will strike back with stronger DRM, and incompetible wmv & wma, and also muscle hardware companies to work mustly with MS products etc,etc.
I think we can wait to see what comes out of countries like china.But also here in europe I see alot of companies moving to open souce because there not willing to give so mutch money out for there OS's,It read in one of the posts that MS has a lot of money, that may be true but alot of companies are moving slowly to open souce and I take the example of a city here in holland were the meyar switch form MS to open souce and that redouced the costs of the city. So yes it's all about the money and ubuntu is free and getting stronger every day.
And that was my 2cents worth. =D> Ubuntu to the people.
Registered Linux user :#422353, Registered Computer :#329832
I think that ms's future will be a drunken and down-on-his-luck Steve Balmer on a beach somewhere in South America or the far east, trying to convince bored american tourists that he used to be important.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.