lulzsec

[Dangertux]

well, i don't think they are idiots,

and if they are, then

Fox, X factor, WoW, Unveillance, Public broadcasting system, Sony, Nintendo, Black & Berg Cybersecurity Consulting, Bethesda, Infragard, NHS, senate.gov, Arizona and navy.mil all where unable to keep idiots from accesing the public's and goverments data.

Possessing a skill does not negate you from being an idiot.

You can be amazing at something, and still be an idiot when it comes to other aspects of life. For instance, you can be a very skilled hacker, and instead of using those skills to make a six figure salary , you use them to prove a point and wear an ankle bracelet for a few years. That makes you an idiot.

[Smilax]

it's not all about the dollar,s and cent's

[Eiji Takanaka]

I would beg to differ Danger, i would say it makes you a human-being.

Great though is the temptation to lift yourself above others,

In the words of radiohead..

Take the money run, take the money run.........

I would suggest its those earning the 6 figure sums that are wearing the golden bangles and prancing around in their own unmitigated idiocy.

When it really comes down to it, do you think corporations being to blame as a scapegoat for the peoples anger will last much longer?

Do you not think people will not think...hang on a minute what about the people behind these corporations, they are driving their nice new cars around, while i can hardly afford to feed myself?

Just a thought anyways.

[Eiji Takanaka]

Perhaps Intelligence when used to further only one's self, is merely a barometer for ones potential to do evil.

And if greed knows no bounds, then perhaps it will end up devouring itself, or people becoming so fat that they can no longer stand up!

- Eiji -

[Dangertux]

Ok -- Let's take the money out of it for a second.

You can be an amazing hacker, and do something legitimate and positive without making money. IE: Contribute to the open source community, consult for free for non-profits and charities, or you can do something negative and anti-social. Thus landing yourself in trouble with the powers that be.

In either case, they chose to take a road which will ultimately lead to their own condemnation. That shows they lack both morals and common sense ; in my belief the base standards for being an idiot.

Now, as far as corporations go, I believe that corporations have a duty to their customers to protect the information that said customer provides them with. I also believe that they do not do nearly a good enough job at it. However, I am not going to break the law to prove it. Just like I'm not going to go bomb a subway because law enforcement doesn't do enough about the security of the people that rely on it.

The bottom line is the positive aspects weren't "High Profile Enough". Let's not confuse things here, these groups efforts may have started with a mission statement, but in the end it was a bunch of egotistic individuals acting like teenagers, tagging buildings to boost their ego. I think you give them too much credit.

Also I don't buy into the whole "we're persecuted by the man". If that really was the motivation behind the attacks, I have a feeling the individuals involved will soon find out exactly what it means to be persecuted by the man. I'm personally not a huge fan of making martyrs out of morons.

In short - all the ability in the world is completely useless without a measure of discipline to temper it.

[Eiji Takanaka]

O.k now that moneys out of the situation yes in part i agree with you dude.

You can use your skills to do something productive, or something destructive.

The formation of such groups is i think an inevitability in a society that is increasingly trying to remove freedoms and liberties from its citizens.

When the laws implemented in a society are put in place merely to protect the vested interests of an individual person or entity, and are not for the greater good of our society.

Then perhaps it is understandable that these laws are not laws for the good of the people, and are merely implemented because of the corruption of those who are in a supposed "responsible" position in society. *See lobbying of lawmakers by corporations".

So for the sake of those corrupt individuals wishing to further themselves, the people as a whole suffer. Our entire law system has been contaminated by these loop-holes and laws for the interests of nothing but corporations and those who own them.

Look at corporation tax for example. It is fairly common knowledge that corporations pay little to no tax in the countries they operate in. Instead they have their dealings in various tax-havens around the world.

Now if the corporations aren't paying their taxes and contributing back into society, they are in essence a leech on society are they not?

And now it has got to the point where they are pretty much running our respective countries.

Were they democratically elected? No they were elected because of money and various corrupt individuals, that allowed such things to happen.

If for example british petroleum were to all of a sudden decide it was no longer going to operate as british petroleum it was now world petroleum, and decided to move their entire work force to a different cheaper country, could anything really stop them?

What with the mass inclusion (and i must say extremely stealthy implementation of) job recruitment agencies, workers no longer have rights, they can be hired and fired in an instant and are usually on minimum wage for their troubles. This was the king pin in the entire operation, job recruitment agencies give companies the ability, to relocate their company at any point, anywhere on the world.

Now you think these going on's are a healthy place for humanity to be?

For people to use corporations as a machine to rinse every last person of their livelihoods, liberties e.t.c? To implement serfdom back once again onto the human species?

Perhaps then it is good to have balance in things, rather than the possible outcome of one massive supranational conglomerate that owns planet earth.

But if you hit one corporation then another will prosper. What we need is someone with balls in charge of the respective countries who will crack down on corporations, or even a unilateral agreement by various nations to do so.

1984 scenario by state rule?

I suspect if we continue the way we are headed it will be the 1984 situation, but it will be a corporate rule not a state rule!

[Dangertux]

O.k now that moneys out of the situation yes in part i agree with you dude.

You can use your skills to do something productive, or something destructive.

The formation of such groups is i think an inevitability in a society that is increasingly trying to remove freedoms and liberties from its citizens.

When the laws implemented in a society are put in place merely to protect the vested interests of an individual person or entity, and are not for the greater good of our society.

Then perhaps it is understandable that these laws are not laws for the good of the people, and are merely implemented because of the corruption of those who are in a supposed "responsible" position in society. *See lobbying of lawmakers by corporations".

So for the sake of those corrupt individuals wishing to further themselves, the people as a whole suffer. Our entire law system has been contaminated by these loop-holes and laws for the interests of nothing but corporations and those who own them.

Look at corporation tax for example. It is fairly common knowledge that corporations pay little to no tax in the countries they operate in. Instead they have their dealings in various tax-havens around the world.

Now if the corporations aren't paying their taxes and contributing back into society, they are in essence a leech on society are they not?

And now it has got to the point where they are pretty much running our respective countries.

Were they democratically elected? No they were elected because of money and various corrupt individuals, that allowed such things to happen.

If for example british petroleum were to all of a sudden decide it was no longer going to operate as british petroleum it was now world petroleum, and decided to move their entire work force to a different cheaper country, could anything really stop them?

What with the mass inclusion (and i must say extremely stealthy implementation of) job recruitment agencies, workers no longer have rights, they can be hired and fired in an instant and are usually on minimum wage for their troubles. This was the king pin in the entire operation, job recruitment agencies give companies the ability, to relocate their company at any point, anywhere on the world.

Now you think these going on's are a healthy place for humanity to be?

For people to use corporations as a machine to rinse every last person of their livelihoods, liberties e.t.c? To implement serfdom back once again onto the human species?

Perhaps then it is good to have balance in things, rather than the possible outcome of one massive supranational conglomerate that owns planet earth.

But if you hit one corporation then another will prosper. What we need is someone with balls in charge of the respective countries who will crack down on corporations, or even a unilateral agreement by various nations to do so.

1984 scenario by state rule?

I suspect if we continue the way we are headed it will be the 1984 situation, but it will be a corporate rule not a state rule!

Well , that is not something I particularly have an opinion on. To be honest, I believe it also to be slightly irrelevant to the original topic.

I can definitely understand the concern there, by many individuals, and believe me it's not something I am oblivious to. However, in my opinion if we want this to change, we're not going to achieve it by having outbursts akin to something my 2 year old would do when I don't give him a toy he wants.

Those are serious issues, that need serious thinkers and serious movers, not slightly intelligent pranksters. If anything in regards to this, I believe that the actions of the individuals in concern will have hindered movement in the proper direction, since they will be looked at as foolish and scapegoated, drawing attention from the real situation.

Something that they likely didn't consider, since their "mission" is more than likely just a means to establish publicity.

[Eiji Takanaka]

I agree to an extent once again my friend.

Perhaps they are not approaching it in the best way possible...

It is like the punk generation in a way, only i guess 'cyber-punk' would perhaps be a more appropriate terminological tag.

[Eiji Takanaka]

And yeah perhaps ability (power) without control would result in chaos.

[Smilax]

oh, i agree, direct acton never works,

much more would have been accomplished by these pranksters if they'll just have started an internet poll.

problem solved, it would be all over the news that people shouldn't reuse the same login details at different sites etc' and of course corporate security would be increased.

we all know a million like's on facebook can achieve anything, like that dude who can now call his kid megatron

what where they thinking