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Thread: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

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    Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    I was checking up with Jared about the Australian team re-approval to become a official LoCo team again. We will raise the issue on the 12 of June 2011 at the team meeting. I was wondering would the rest of the team like it?

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    Smile Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Thanks for raising this.
    I would like to see ubuntu-au reapply for official status again.

    However not much has changed from when it lost its official status.
    Sure, the wiki has been updated and we have a new team contact (that is trying).

    I have stayed quiet since we lost the official status to see what happens and I must say that not much.

    Participation is almost non existent, you had 6 people at last nights meeting, out of how many members in the Loco?

    How many people attended the recent release parties?
    We saw some pictures of Brisbane, what about Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide? Not exactly a resounding success!

    There is NO enthusiasm or encouragement for people to participate.

    There is NO plan, to re-apply for official LOCO status, if there is one where is it?

    There are NO goals that people can work towards.

    There is NO vision for Ubuntu-au to go forward into the future.

    You may find this post to be very negative, it is, but until these things are addressed Ubuntu-au will go nowhere.

    One place to start would be to have a CENSUS to actually find out who is still interested in the LOCO. Lets have an 'official' membership list that is reviewed yearly.
    There are 'members' lists everywhere. One on launchpad, one on the wiki and one on Facebook. My suggestion would be to remove the wiki list and ask everybody that is still interested in the LOCO to add their name.

    Once we have a list of interested/current members, we can start to get a consensus about the future of the LOCO.

    Just some suggestions! No malice intended

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Hidy ho, gandella.

    I'm not in Ubuntu AU, but I am on the LoCo Council. I saw this, and figured I had at least a passing interest in keeping this on-point.

    All of this is from me, personally, and my views do not (necessary) speak for the LoCo Council.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    Thanks for raising this.
    I would like to see ubuntu-au reapply for official status again.
    Me too. It broke my heart to see it get un-approved, but it was to the point where the only way to take a step forward was to back out and try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    However not much has changed from when it lost its official status.
    Sure, the wiki has been updated and we have a new team contact (that is trying).
    Well, that's good. The issue with the team (if I recall) was that it was too monolithic, and refused to be open about new things.

    If the team is the same, but it's now none of those previous things, it would seem like the team is in a state in which we let it remain approved previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    I have stayed quiet since we lost the official status to see what happens and I must say that not much.

    Participation is almost non existent, you had 6 people at last nights meeting, out of how many members in the Loco?
    How many did you have a meetings before you lost approved status? What's the change since new leadership took over?

    I've found all teams have membership numbers higher then the number of really active folks. The thing to look for is the rate of change.

    Are the numbers growing?

    Are more activities happening?

    Are you advocating more or less then last year at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    How many people attended the recent release parties?
    We saw some pictures of Brisbane, what about Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide? Not exactly a resounding success!

    There is NO enthusiasm or encouragement for people to participate.
    If I recall, this was all centralized in one place before. That means that all the members in these locations would have joined the loco in this last short time.

    The fact they happen is impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    There is NO plan, to re-apply for official LOCO status, if there is one where is it?

    There are NO goals that people can work towards.

    There is NO vision for Ubuntu-au to go forward into the future.
    That is a blocker. Is this true? Is there no plan, goal or vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    You may find this post to be very negative, it is, but until these things are addressed Ubuntu-au will go nowhere.
    I do, actually. I don't like the tone, personally. I think that's mostly why I jumped in. Next time, you can bring up some productive topics, such as:

    What can we do to ensure we can continue growth?

    Are we at the point where we can sustain our growth in a meaningful way up to, and past Approval?

    What would being Approved mean to Australia?


    Personally, I love the take on "shippit" for Australia. It's nice to see that still around.

    I see tons of activity, and I love it. I'm pretty exited about Ubuntu AU.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    One place to start would be to have a CENSUS to actually find out who is still interested in the LOCO. Lets have an 'official' membership list that is reviewed yearly.
    There are 'members' lists everywhere. One on launchpad, one on the wiki and one on Facebook. My suggestion would be to remove the wiki list and ask everybody that is still interested in the LOCO to add their name.
    Census is good. Don't let this block progress to becoming approved, though.

    You can consider mailing everyone on the team, you should be able to snag email addresses via Launchpadlib, and send out a nice ping mailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    Once we have a list of interested/current members, we can start to get a consensus about the future of the LOCO.
    Whoh. Please don't block the team's progress with Approval with this. We call that "Shaving the Yak".

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    Just some suggestions! No malice intended
    Rock on witcha bad self, Oz!

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    One place to start would be to have a CENSUS to actually find out who is still interested in the LOCO. Lets have an 'official' membership list that is reviewed yearly.
    There are 'members' lists everywhere. One on launchpad, one on the wiki and one on Facebook. My suggestion would be to remove the wiki list and ask everybody that is still interested in the LOCO to add their name.
    I am a new member, and have kept quiet on this, but feel there's some important points to make here.

    LoCo members are not ordinary users. They are people who are deeply interested in Ubuntu, it's promotion, and it's future. This would be true regardless of what events they get involved in and what meetings they attend. If you start deleting names out of the membership list you would be potentially alienating people who may in the future wish to contribute in some way. That list is the potential of the group and is extremely valuable to it.

    As for participation in the meetings, it's just as important that there were many observers taking an interest. I see a great deal of potential in that also.

    So, active members of the group can face the challenge of getting others involved: something that is not unique to this group or any number of SIGs, clubs etc that I've been involved in over the years.


    Chris.
    Last edited by fabricator4; June 14th, 2011 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Tidy up/formatting

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    As recently discussed at the June Meeting and on the Mailing List Ubuntu-AU is going to seek approval again based upon our current efforts.

    You can see our application on the team wiki page here.

    Check it out and let the mailing list know if you think anything is missing!

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    Smile Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    LoCo members are not ordinary users. They are people who are deeply interested in Ubuntu, it's promotion, and it's future.
    If this was true, there would be more participation, in meetings both online and physical.

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    This would be true regardless of what events they get involved in and what meetings they attend. If you start deleting names out of the membership list you would be potentially alienating people who may in the future wish to contribute in some way.
    How would asking people to re-affirm their commitment alienate people?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    That list is the potential of the group and is extremely valuable to it.
    Which list? The wiki membership list. How many of these people are still active?
    Is the information accurate, I'm sure the LUG contact list is way out of date.

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    As for participation in the meetings, it's just as important that there were many observers taking an interest. I see a great deal of potential in that also.
    Australia has a population of 21million that is great potential too.

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    So, active members of the group can face the challenge of getting others involved: something that is not unique to this group or any number of SIGs, clubs etc that I've been involved in over the years.
    So who are these 'active' members, how have you Identified them? What are they doing? As it stands now, our Team contact is the only really active member because he is the 'TEAM CONTACT' and that is all that we have.

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Hi Paul

    I apologise for my bluntness and hope that nobody takes offence.
    All of this is my own opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by paultag View Post
    How many did you have a meetings before you lost approved status? What's the change since new leadership took over?

    I've found all teams have membership numbers higher then the number of really active folks. The thing to look for is the rate of change.
    Are the numbers growing?
    Are more activities happening?
    Are you advocating more or less then last year at this point?
    The only thing that has changed is the monthly online meetings, however the numbers of participants are dwindling. The true membership number is not reflected because I doubt people actually remove themselves when they loose interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by paultag View Post
    If I recall, this was all centralized in one place before. That means that all the members in these locations would have joined the loco in this last short time.
    You are mistaken, things happened elsewhere before losing our status.

    Quote Originally Posted by paultag View Post
    I do, actually. I don't like the tone, personally. I think that's mostly why I jumped in. Next time, you can bring up some productive topics, such as:

    What can we do to ensure we can continue growth?

    Are we at the point where we can sustain our growth in a meaningful way up to, and past Approval?

    What would being Approved mean to Australia?
    I apologise, but I say things as I see it, I'm not one for 'fluff'.
    These are good questions that still have not been answered, all I see is a continuation of the flawed model that was before we lost official status.

    I had advocated some changes before we lost our approval and they were squashed by a few favoured members. There was no compromise, no-mediation, no negotiation. Sure we had a few polls and out of the 320 odd members at most we had about 20 (I think) actually bother to vote.


    Quote Originally Posted by paultag View Post
    I see tons of activity, and I love it. I'm pretty exited about Ubuntu AU.
    Really!! Did all of those release parties really happen? Who knows, no pictures no reports. Sure the stand at LCA was a success. I wonder if it was held in another city where the 'Team Contact' didn't attend and the Canonical staff didn't lend a hand, would have been a success?

    Quote Originally Posted by paultag View Post
    Census is good. Don't let this block progress to becoming approved, though.

    You can consider mailing everyone on the team, you should be able to snag email addresses via Launchpadlib, and send out a nice ping mailer.
    If we actually know who still has an active interest in the LOCO we can engage active participation. Until that happens it is a case of the 'blind leading the blind'.

    I apologise for my bluntness and hope that nobody takes offence.

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    I wish you well, but what will it actually mean?

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Quote Originally Posted by gandella View Post
    If this was true, there would be more participation, in meetings both online and physical.
    You miss the point. Loco members are not ordinary users because they've already put their hands up and shown that they are interested in promoting the concept of Ubuntu. This has nothing to do with their actual participation. Just because they haven't found a way to participate does not mean that they will not do so in the future, or that they do not wish to right now. The challenge here is finding ways to give more people more ways to become involved in a productive manner, and to stay in touch with all members so that they are aware of these opportunities in the future.

    In some ways the fragmentary makeup of the group's communication methods is a symptom of this: There's so many websites, wikis, lists, social media etc etc that this is a potential problem for new members and the leadership. On the other hand, it gives people as many methods as possible for staying in touch and learning about activities and ways of getting involved. I think the right balance is being strived for and the amount of effort involved is not trivial.


    How would asking people to re-affirm their commitment alienate people?
    You're twisting the words. I didn't say asking people to re-affirm would alienate them, I said that if you started deleting the members off the list as you proposed you would alienate them.

    If you deleted my name off a list I'd just joined I would certainly feel alienated. Doing this would seem to indicate that you didn't want me on the list, and that you were not interested in my participation. I doubt that I would make the effort to rejoin the group at that point.

    That would be called throwing the baby out with the bath water. Paultag called it "shaving the yak", which was being too kind - Certainly it would be a useless procrastination but it would also be much more damaging to the membership. This is an idea best left in a corner somewhere and forgotten.

    Instead, find ways of reaching the rest of the list who are not currently active in some way. Find ways of getting them involved, and find ways of allowing them to contribute. That's yak farming.

    Australia has a population of 21million that is great potential too.
    Absolutely. Any ideas on how to get them all involved?

    It's a numbers game. Of that 21 million, only a small percentage even know about Linux and Ubuntu. Of those, only a very small number wish to volunteer their time in promoting, teaching, and developing. Obviously the best way to increase the latter group is to work really hard on the first group. Human nature being what it is, the rest will follow. These things tend to have a critical mass where it becomes self sustaining, and we (Australian LoCo team) are not at that point yet. A lot of hard work is required, and as a volunteer group there are limited resources available.

    So who are these 'active' members, how have you Identified them? What are they doing? As it stands now, our Team contact is the only really active member because he is the 'TEAM CONTACT' and that is all that we have.
    That's a very obstructionist attitude. It belittles the efforts being made and is intentionally obtuse. Fortunately paultag doesn't seem to use the same yardstick and hopefully the rest of the council will not either. Obviously there are many people involved, in many different ways.

    If I may say, your attitude seems to stem largely from an element of burn-out. This is not a good thing, for you or for the Australian LoCo team. You say "I wish you well" but the words following it and preceding it seem to indicate otherwise. I can see your disenchantment with whole process, and I understand, it's just that your angst would be much better expressed privately to those involved rather than making a public spat about it.

    I note that your nickname does not appear in the members list anywhere. Does this mean that you have withdrawn your membership from the team and no longer wish to be involved?

    Regards,

    Chris

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    Re: Australian LoCo team Re-Approval

    Hi Chris,

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post

    If I may say, your attitude seems to stem largely from an element of burn-out. This is not a good thing, for you or for the Australian LoCo team. You say "I wish you well" but the words following it and preceding it seem to indicate otherwise. I can see your disenchantment with whole process, and I understand, it's just that your angst would be much better expressed privately to those involved rather than making a public spat about it.
    Don't get me wrong, I do wish the team well and I see great potential.

    I shall lower my expectations that way I wont be disappointed.

    I apologise for airing my opinion publicly.

    I will go back into my box and stay with the silent majority.

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