The best linux web-design application

[Dry Lips]

Now, I'm a graphic designer who eventually wants
to get into doing some basic web-design as well
(self promotion and non-profit work). I need your
opinion about which web-editor you think is the
best for Linux... Seamonkey, Bluefish or some other
editor? Should WYSIWYG capabilities be considered
a must when choosing a package to learn from
scratch? And finally; how essential is WYSIWYG when
it comes to creating a good workflow from a designers
point of view?

[BcRich]

Hi
I use seamonkey
but Kompozer also seems to be popular http://kompozer.sourceforge.net/ it has a built-in site manager.
wysiwig makes learning basics of webdesign easy and many front-end web designers stick with it. it really depends on which field of web design you are interested in, if you r a designer i'm guessing you might be more interested in developing the general "look and feel" of a website? if that is the case, wysiwig editors should do the trick for you, but it's always a good idea to check out the code (html, css, xml, etc) that goes on in the background (but not a necessity or a prerequisite for website designers).
gimp's script-fu slice and imageMap filter/plugin adds some imageready/fireworks slicing and hotspot capabilities to a workflow. i find the slice feature to be particularly useful as it also creates a table for the images it slices in html, which you can then easily embed into a web page.
either way starting in wysiwig editors and tools is a good place to start (and even remain) but you should definitely consider extending your knowledge beyond that if you don't want to have your software make your design decisions for you in the long run.

[Dry Lips]

Thank you for a thoughtful response!

You write:

“if you r a designer i'm guessing you might
be more interested in developing the general "look
and feel" of a website?”

That's right, I'm not at all opposed to learning a bit of
html, but my main concern is to find a way to visualise
my ideas, not going too deep into the code that's required.

gimp's script-fu slice and imageMap filter/plugin
adds some imageready/fireworks slicing and hotspot
capabilities to a workflow. i find the slice feature to be
particularly useful as it also creates a table for the
images it slices in html, which you can then easily embed
into a web page.

Interesting! Thanks for the tip!
I'm new to Ubuntu and open-source software in general. I'm
used to working with adobe software (although not for web-design),
but Gimp seems very solid, when you take into consideration
that it's completely free. It seems as if Inkscape
(and possibly Scribus, but I haven't really used it much)
is more immature at the present moment, but given time,
they too can become very good. (One example: It seems
as if Inkscape has a little trouble working with high-res images...)

I've tried Kompozer, wasn't too impressed at first sight...
I'll definitively try out Seamonkey. (And hey; I like the mozilla guys!)

[xtremethegreat1]

Try out bluefish. That's what I use both for HTML and PHP development.

sudo apt-get install bluefish

And about the WYSIWYG, I think it is a must not when starting to learn from scratch. But if total control is not what you're looking for, then WYSIWYG is for you. Good luck.

[Dry Lips]

I've installed and have briefly tried out both Bluefish
and Seamonkey. I found Bluefish quite intuitive and
easy to use for a non-WYSWYG editor. Seamonkey
was also quite easy to use for a novice, but is it perhaps
a bit too weak? I see that Amaya
(http://www.w3.org/Amaya/User/BinDist.html)
has an Ubuntu distribution available, do anyone know
why Amaya doesn't show up in the Ubuntu Software Senter?
(Perhaps it isn't used primarily for web design?)

I've also had a little look around at some of the
web-design packages you can get for Windows...
It seems as if there is a lack of an open-source
program for Linux that is an obvious competitor
with the stuff you can get for Windows. I mean,
Gimp is already an excellent alternative to Photoshop;
Inkscape and Scribus is beginning to give Illustrator
and Indesign some serious competition. But at the
moment I don't think there are any program that
comes close to being a Dreamweaver-killer. (Or Html-kit killer).
No matter what one thinks of Dreamweaver,
I think an open-source alternative is needed. Like it or not,
it is a package that many, many designers use.

From a designers point of view, I think one should
ideally be able to do as much design as possible with
as little manual coding as possible. I mean, if I was
going to design a logo, I would use Illustrator/Inkscape,
not C++. On the other hand I freely admit that I'm
inexperienced when it comes to web-design.
(I used Dreamweaver for a couple of weeks waaaay back
in the Macromedia days.) When it comes to WYSWYG,
I see from reading posts on the topic that many claims
that it produces “dirty” code... xtremethegreat1 writes:

And about the WYSIWYG, I think it is a must not when starting to learn from scratch. But if total control is not what you're looking for, then WYSIWYG is for you. Good luck.

Design is indeed all about control, so I wonder
whether there is something in the code that
WYSIWYG-programs makes, that has negative
consequences for those who access your site?
Does “dirty” code cause any real problems, and what
does “total control” mean in the context of web-design?
Finally: Is it theoretically possible to create a piece
of open-source software which is just as easy to
use as Dreamweaver, (or even notorious web-generators
such as Netobjects Fusion and Web-builder)
but that also produces clean and nice code?

Thanks for your contribution!

[airtonix]

WYSIWYG programs typically do not create legible stylesheets, or embed the styles inline with the html which then defeats the purpose of browser caching.

You need to appreciate that creating a HTML & CSS page is not about pixel control.

I suggest you start reading http://alistapart.com to become familiar with better HTML & CSS creation techniques.

I too started out creating websites with dreamweaver when it was version 4.

I stopped using it when I realised it was creating more work for me later on (no to mention the frequent loss of work due to the program misbehaving).

I now use gedit with the following plugins

• Word Completion,
• gMate Plugin Set
• Rabbit CVS Git Plugin
• External Tools
• Find in Open Documents

You might also like Aptana, which is a very nice package (even if it is based on Eclipse), there's also a portable version for both windows and linux.

Although use gimp and inkscape, I've come to the conclusion that less is more when it comes to graphics and webpages.

[the_blue_box]

I would recommend Kompozer.
you can use the WYSIWYG interface and/or edit the source code (I do both because you can clean up the code as you go along)
and if you want to use css (I assume you will) it embeds it by default but there is an option to turn it into a separate file/files that's neatly laid out.
Plus a myriad of other brilliant features.

all-in-all a very good program.

what ever you go for I wish you all the best.

the_blue_box

[Neon Lights]

airtonix gives some good advice. I use gedit as well.

Honestly, if you don't want to learn HTML/CSS, unless it's a really simple project, it'll probably be best to draw up your designs and team up with someone who knows it.

If you do want to learn to code, I would say a WYSIWYG editor is a must not as well. http://alistapart.com and http://w3schools.com are great resources.

[Dry Lips]

airtonix:

WYSIWYG programs typically do not create legible stylesheets,
or embed the styles inline with the html which then defeats the
purpose of browser caching.

This was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.
Thank you so much for your kind advice. I see I need to
do some research about style sheets. I found this page that I
think was impressive:
http://www.csszengarden.com/

You write about browser caching... Do I understand you right if
I assume that the issue here is about reducing bandwidth?

Thanks for the reference to alistapart. I promptly bookmarked it.
There was enough useful information on it to keep me reading for
a while, in addition to that it's also a nice page visually.
I agree that design doesn't necessarily have to be very complex
in order to please the eye.

Aptana: I've seen more people that you recommending Aptana.
I've installed Eclipse and Aptana, as it seemed that the standalone
version didn't run on 64-bit Linux. At least I cannot complain that
I lack tools powerful enough for the task... Eclipse seems like
something of a Behemoth! But it could be worth the effort to look
into it, if mastering a program like Aptana saves me time later on.


“Ain't got no pixel control”

[Dry Lips]

the_blue_box

Now I've got pretty much all the software worth installing in Ubuntu:
KompoZer, Bluefish, Seamonkey, Plus Eclipse and Aptana... Right now,
I think the way to go is to read up on some resources, and basically
play around with the different packages in order to find out which one
that suits me best. I had a little trouble the first time I used KompoZer,
but it could be that running a couple of tutorials would be of help.