What advantages are there to system76

**satsujinka** · January 28th, 2011

I think what alaukikyo was getting at was that zareason specifically says that you can open your laptop up and provides you with the tools to do so.
Which is admirable, but if you actually know what you're doing there's no reason why any computer company would know that you opened the computer. So it doesn't really matter.

**isantop** · January 28th, 2011

We may not ship a screwdriver, but we certainly don't have a problem with users opening their computers; in fact, I'll often recommend reseating the RAM or other such quick check as part of diagnosis; it save time and money.

**Offlein** · January 28th, 2011

I'd like to state my overwhelmingly negative recent experience with System76. I understand that I'm in the minority here, but I think it's very important that this experience is recorded and -- when I have a chance -- I would like to put it in a more permanent place as well.

I have purchased two computers from System76 but will never purchase another one. Before six months ago, I undoubtedly would've. And, it's worth noting, the first computer I purchased from them (at my old job, and which was gifted to me upon the company's closure) is still in good working order and one of the best computers I've had.

The most recent purchase I've made was in December a year ago, and it was one of their Wildebeest line. This was to serve as my development computer, where I can maintain an instance of my company's website, iterate on it, and commit changes to the test server (and finally push to the production server). The issue was that when things went wrong with the hardware of the computer, System76 had VERY few options for me, each one took FOREVER, and required significant difficulty on my end to achieve and, when problems with their hardware were ongoing, began dragging their feet in replying to me, ignoring many of my queries.

I'll detail, in-depth, exactly what happened here, although the ending paragraphs of this are the most interesting.

The computer worked well at first, although my disappointment started early with the shipping time. I ordered on Dec. 18, 2009 and got a little anxious when by Jan 4, I had seen no update on my order status, but they assured me things were going as planned. On the 5th, I was informed that the mouse and keyboard had shipped (..hooray?) but it wasn't until the 8th that the computer itself actually went OUT.

About six months in, I think, the computer started giving me random reboots and hard freezes (REISUB did not work). In September I finally got my act together and emailed to explain the problem. The guys: Ian Santopietro and Tom Aaron, were REALLY impressive. They responded back and forth with me for a day or two, offering suggestions. (Although sometimes their suggestions overlapped, and sometimes they'd repeat the same one, or even conflicting ones: "Did you try running Memtest86+" was asked twice, and the first time they asked, they told me it was imperative to run it all night long, I think this was part of some form response, because in the next email, they told me it didn't need to run all night long, an hour or two should do it.)

They asked me to submit an RMA form for the whole system, to address the reboots, which I did. I didn't hear anything for a few days and finally, after asking, they got back to me with a shipping label. I realized I couldn't readily send away my only work computer, as we were just about to launch a product. They said that was fine, but warned me that I only had a year warranty, so I'd have to get it in by the end of the year, which didn't 100% make sense, since they knew about the issue, but I guess was understandable. They've got to protect themselves.

After a while, I started having an influx of the freezes, and I realized that they had sort of stopped addressing that issue in the previous round of testing - only focusing on the reboots - and I wanted to make sure there was no additional testing I could do. They suggested running Memtest86+ again. We didn't come up with anything useful.

On 11/19, I packaged the computer and mailed it away. The guys tested it and tested it until 12/13, when they just said they couldn't duplicate the problem and ordered a new motherboard in case. No one really knew what to do, so I was fine with them installing it and shooting it back to me.

It came back on Dec. 21 (more than a month since I sent it away) and this is where the real troubles began. When I plugged it in and powered it on, the front led panel glowed, but it did not start. I opened the box and discovered the connectors from the front of the case (such as the power button) were only partially plugged in, so with much frustration (they're tiny and awkwardly placed) I took them off and reseated them back in.

When I turned the computer on, it powered up but still did not start, with no beeps or anything. Upset, I emailed support from another computer and Ian replied by the end of the day around 5:30 ET (I believe when they close). I went back into the computer and began swapping out the RAM, eventually coming upon what I believed to be (in my non-expert opinion) one bad stick.

I emailed to tell the guys this early on the 22nd, and explain how this entire saga was both frustrating and tiring for me, and that what I really wanted was "no more hassles." It didn't seem right that, after having to send my system away and having it come back with two critical malfunctions out-of-the-box, that I should be expected to do any more futzing around inside the case at all.

They did not get back to me until the 29th (a long Christmas break, I guess?) ignoring everything I said and asking me to take a picture of the labels of the RAM.

I obliged on Jan. 5th, and they told me that I just needed to fill out yet another form, and they could cross-ship a replacement stick of RAM to me. After filling out the form, Tom emailed to let me know that, actually, "due to the age of the order" they couldn't cross-ship the RAM, and I'd have to package and mail mine back. Just more hassle, no interest in making a special case based on how difficult the whole process had been until this point.

Regardless, they told me that if I filled out the form, they'd make sure I got a mailing label to ship mine back "right away." After two full days, I had received nothing and emailed to ask how long "right away" meant, and within an hour I had my label. I mailed it out on January 7.

They received it on the 13th and after six days of waiting, they decided to mail a new stick out to me. It arrived on Jan. 25.

The new RAM did not work right. The system will only work with one stick in it. It can use either the new stick or the old one, but only one at a time. Immediately after receiving it, I emailed again to let them know that the system still did not work, and to ask what accommodations could be made for my trouble and the countless hours I had lost dealing with this mess of a system. I said they should just send me a new computer. (This was a half-joke.)

Tom waited til the very end of their business day and sent a business-like reply stating that sending a new system was not their policy since mine was OUT OF WARRANTY. (Ha ha!) He assured me that given the circumstances, however, they WOULD make sure to fix this. He said he really didn't know what to do, though, except ask me to send it in again, maybe.

I responded immediately that same day, with a couple simple questions and asked if it might be reasonable for them to have an on-site technician in my neighborhood (that is, the New York metropolitan area) look at this, and to see if maybe they could send a loaner at least, if I had to mail it away.

They again waited all day the next day (Jan. 26) to respond, until their close of business, ignored my questions, and asked if I could give them the part number on the new stick of RAM. I obliged immediately again (within 20 minutes).

That was the last time I heard from them. In short, I've found System76 to be unreliable, especially for businesses, and they have made no motion to provide what I would consider a reasonable amount of personal care to my case at any step of the way.

I understand that I am not their most important customer, and that they are a small business. We are too, however, and that's why it was so much more important for us to have this resolved in a timely and efficient manner. I would've gladly continued buying from them for this company and whatever job I go to in the future, but they've demonstrated over and over that my satisfaction is just not that important to them.

**alaukikyo** · January 29th, 2011

Originally Posted by samalex

I don't have any experience with zaReason so I can't say you're wrong, but the two points you make are not logical. It's great that zaReason makes the effort to be 100% 'out of the box' compatible with Ubuntu, but they can't anticipate changes in each subsequent version. What works in one version may not in the next, so having no driver support is a hit IMO.

it doesn't happen that way since they contibute all the drivers upstream and the hardware support in gnu/linux improves.

also it ain't neccesary that System76 drivers will work in each subsequent version

Originally Posted by samalex

As for warranty, you can get an extended warranty from System76 as well, so why is zaReason > System76 in that regard?

I was talking about the open warranty.

**Noah0504** · January 29th, 2011

Offlein, this mostly goes in response to you.

I want to start my reply by saying this isn't a slam towards Offlein, but I thought I should at least post my positive experience with System76. There was another thread where an individual was essentially slammed for his negative experience with the company, and I don't think that's quite right.

At the beginning of last year, I was looking to get rid of my MacBook Pro and pick up a System76 computer as I was going to switch to Linux regardless. My Apple system was past it's warranty, I didn't want to spend the money on an Apple Care subscription, so it was time to part ways.

Browsing the System76 lineup, I decided to settle on a Pangolin. This was actually the new model released not too long before I started looking (PanP7). I submitted my order and anxiously awaited it's arrival!

At the time, I was under the impression that the computer would ship out in about a week. That was pretty reasonable to me. However, after about a week, my computer still had not shipped. This usually would have been fine. I'm a pretty patient person, but I had just sold my MacBook. This meant I would be without a computer until it arrived.

I emailed System76 trying to find out exactly when my computer would ship. After a few very quick exchanges with customer service, I found out that due to the Chinese New Year, my system would be delayed. I believed them. We actually have this problem every year at work. For that week or two, things don't arrive when they should.

I debated on waiting or just switching to another model. I emailed customer service again to see if it was possible to change my order. The representative was happy to make this happen. I told her the system I wanted and she got everything switched around withing 20 minutes. The system was on track to ship that week and arrive very soon. This was obviously a much easier experience than I would have with a computer such as Dell.

Now, here is where I really got happy. I happened to be browsing these forums the next morning. I saw a sticky post Tom had made advertising to Pangolin (PanP6) laptops that were sitting in the warehouse. They were new systems that were never shipped because the customers canceled. One system was essentially maxed out and had a three year warranty. It was cheaper than either system I was going to order, so I thought I should hop on the deal! I emailed customer service one more time to see if I could (probably annoyingly) change my order one more time! Again, there was no problem with this. And since the system was ready to ship because it was already boxed up, I made arrangements for it to be shipped out that day and get it the next day on Saturday! I would now not have to go another weekend without a computer and would get a system that was better than I was originally going to order for less money! (Luck was on my side here, but I'm really just trying to show how easy System76 made it for me to change my orders and also ship me the computer so I could have it as soon as possible.)

Now I've been using the computer for a year. I haven't had any problems with the system, and I hope I never do. However, if I do, I trust that they will take care of me and honor the warranty.

Working for a computer service company, we deal with warranties all of the time. Dell is usually the best company we deal with in this regard, but even then, sometimes it feels like we have to pull teeth to get anything done. We often run into weird and unusual problems that Dell or other companies can't quite confirm. We go through plenty of steps and processes with them, but don't always resolve the problems happily.

It can be said that sometimes companies are too big and one unhappy customer doesn't break the bank. With System76, I sometimes wonder if the opposite is true. I know System76 is pretty small, so the resources may not always be there to take care of someone with an unusual problem. I'm not defending them, but just making an observation. I hope if I ever have a problem, it will be taken care of. Sadly, there is always going to be someone who is left unhappy or with an unresolved problem. It's not what any company strives for, but it does happen. Even at our company, we can't always make everyone leave with a smile on their face, but we sure do try!

**Offlein** · January 31st, 2011

I certainly wouldn't take that as a slam at all. I was seriously disappointed with System76 and found that I could not rely on them .. But never once were Ian or Tom disrespectful or rude. In fact, I felt like they WANTED to help consistently, but the problem I have is so confounding that it made it difficult.

Well, it's difficult for us, too -- and they've had numerous chances to budge a little on their policies to keep us as a customer, but they didn't and it seems they won't. That's what you have to deal with regarding a small company; I would've hoped that being a small company could afford them the freedom to give the extra bit of customer care that would've kept us a customer, but instead I just feel like I am being jerked around on a personal level...

Give me Dell's faceless corporate chain-jerking I guess? At least they're committed to service on an official level.

**thomasaaron** · February 2nd, 2011

Offlein, I'm very sorry for your bad experience. In my opinion, you were an exemplary customer, and I wish we could've solved your problem the first time. It was one of those issues that we just weren't able to duplicate in the shop.