Learning 2 programming languages at once?

[DanielWaterworth]

There is a big difference between design and learning.

I think you are right about purely top down design.

yes, I agree, I was advocating top-down learning not design. Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong with bottom-up learning, with the proviso that the emphasis is on the higher level design, ie, anything that isn't directly related to the architecture or paradigm. Abstract concepts are the important parts of programming.

[rnerwein]

Zuerst, Deutsch ist meine zweite Muttersprache; also, Ich brauche kein Lexikon.

Zweitens, ich kenne die ,,Grundlagen der Programmierung'' (eigentlich, Grundlagen der i386 Architektur) vieleicht nicht ganz aber schon sehr gut: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...47&postcount=6

Drittens, zwei Nummern zu tauschen ohne eine dritte als Buffer zu benutzen?

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
    int a = 9;
    int b = 10;
    printf("a = %d, b = %d", a, b);

    a = a ^ b;
    b = b ^ a;
    a = a ^ b;

    printf("a = %d, b = %d", a, b);

    return 0;
}

Es ist nur ein Trick. Sowas ist kein eigentliches Wissen.

hi
english isn't my first language. but i think you are in the wrong thread.
first is: to swap integers is an unary operation - that means the result is always a type of a type of the left
operand.
what i want to tell you is: a ^= b;
what i will prefere is: /* use it as an macro */
#define swap(x,y) *(x) ^= *(y); *(y) ^= *(x); *(x) ^= *(y);
why --> no function calls ( if you use it often )

have a look at the assembly code.
and one more hint is: kernighan - richie --> reference manual - 1977 prentice hall,inc -
ISBN 3-446-13878-1
for me it's the same as small talk (OO) - it's like a bible
have fun man
ciao

[neilms]

Hey.

I'm about to start my university Computer Science degree, and after looking through the curriculum, it seems I will be studying Java from the beginning.
However, I would also like to learn python. Would it be a good idea to learn both of these languages at the same time, or should I wait until I'm at least at a decent level with Java before I begin dwelling into other languages?

By the way, I have some programming experience, I had to learn Pascal as it was taught to us in high school and was ~70% of our final IT exam, if that matters, so I know the basic principles of programming up to arrays and functions.

I would really appreciate any opinions on this subject and advice.

Thank you in advance.

IMHO, the programming classes that you will take at university can only give a student a very basic introduction to the chosen language. The emphasis would probably be on completing a non trivial programming project at the end as well as an exam.

If you are serious about programming, the only way to learn is to do it yourself, over time. For that reason, I would not abandon trying to learn python. So long as you are able to keep up with your course work and do not find yourself getting confused, I cannot see any harm in learning two languages.

[schauerlich]

what i want to tell you is: a ^= b;

a ^= b is the same as a = a ^ b. nvteighen's example was basically the same as yours, just without the macro. Also, why the dereference?

[worseisworser]

hi
english isn't my first language. but i think you are in the wrong thread.
first is: to swap integers is an unary operation - that means the result is always a type of a type of the left
operand.
what i want to tell you is: a ^= b;
what i will prefere is: /* use it as an macro */
..
why --> no function calls ( if you use it often )

have a look at the assembly code.
and one more hint is: kernighan - richie --> reference manual - 1977 prentice hall,inc -
ISBN 3-446-13878-1
for me it's the same as small talk (OO) - it's like a bible
have fun man
ciao

Inline the function instead:
http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Inline.html

C macros will cause trouble:
http://lists.warhead.org.uk/pipermai...ly/000130.html

[geimas]

IMHO, the programming classes that you will take at university can only give a student a very basic introduction to the chosen language. The emphasis would probably be on completing a non trivial programming project at the end as well as an exam.

If you are serious about programming, the only way to learn is to do it yourself, over time. For that reason, I would not abandon trying to learn python. So long as you are able to keep up with your course work and do not find yourself getting confused, I cannot see any harm in learning two languages.

Its nice to see someone posting an answer to my question with all this off-topic going on

It's good advice, thats basically how I was thinking before creating this thread - if I can keep up, there should be no harm done (although 4 years probably seems like a longer period of time at the moment than it really is).

However, recently I've been thinking a bit more about this issue.. I'm basically inexperienced (well I do have some experience as posted before, but it's very limited), which makes me wonder whether I'm even choosing the right languages. Yea, Java is a must and I can't go around it, but Python isn't. I don't know too much about programming paradigm's and all the possible career paths afterwards... I do agree that you should know about both high-level and low-level programming (I don't believe in being a jack-of-all-trades but I do believe in adaptivity), but what makes me worried is that maybe I would eventually become interested in low-level programming and Python would eventually be forgotten? And that is quite possible, as while I do enjoy knowing a bit about a wider range of subjects, I like being primarily focused on one specifically.

Day to day I see people also going into computer science, however already focused on a specific subject more than others - some specifically going for low level programming, others wanting to write software, other going for web development etc. I am not focused on anything at this point.

Do you guys think thats a silly view at this point and maybe I should forget about a specific focus until a later point? Focusing is kinda in my nature, so this is worrying me.

[KdotJ]

Do you guys think thats a silly view at this point and maybe I should forget about a specific focus until a later point? Focusing is kinda in my nature, so this is worrying me.

You make good points, however my opinion is don't stress over picking one particular area just yet because you feel you have to. Once you start your course, it will probably be varied (mine was) and you get to have a go a different areas of computer science, obviously not in full depth but you will at least brush the surface if not more.

I think that you can only make your choice after this, and it might not even be a choice... you might just click in one area and just know this is what you want to focus more on. It may even be something completely different that's not necessarily just programming.

As for you wanting a focus, focus on working hard and going the extra bit further than your course asks. Your course will not teach you everything, and naturally you'll want to learn more in your spare time.

[geimas]

As for you wanting a focus, focus on working hard and going the extra bit further than your course asks. Your course will not teach you everything, and naturally you'll want to learn more in your spare time.

Thats good advice.. after reading it, it became kinda obvious (though, most of the stuff in life only does become obvious after reading/seeing it). I guess you're right. I'm gonna be studying in Scotland, and the way courses seem to be shaped there, the first two years will be kinda introductory (first year focusing on Java, second on C, in my case), so I will be able to experience the different aspects of programming. And maybe I will then, as you said, click.

Probably the smartest thing I can do right now is, indeed, work hard. I do feel passionate about programming (even with my limited experience), and while we all start at the same beginning, learning the same basics (even if in different ways), we all eventually shift our gears to a certain, our own, path. You are probably right and it will eventually come. Thanks for giving me a chance to think more deeply ^^.... as I said before, things only become obvious after you're told of them...

[KdotJ]

Thats good advice.. after reading it, it became kinda obvious (though, most of the stuff in life only does become obvious after reading/seeing it). I guess you're right. I'm gonna be studying in Scotland, and the way courses seem to be shaped there, the first two years will be kinda introductory (first year focusing on Java, second on C, in my case), so I will be able to experience the different aspects of programming. And maybe I will then, as you said, click.

Probably the smartest thing I can do right now is, indeed, work hard. I do feel passionate about programming (even with my limited experience), and while we all start at the same beginning, learning the same basics (even if in different ways), we all eventually shift our gears to a certain, our own, path. You are probably right and it will eventually come. Thanks for giving me a chance to think more deeply ^^.... as I said before, things only become obvious after you're told of them...

No problem, but of course this is my own opinion, others may think different. You'll work it all out in the end, and university is a great experience in itself.
You're lucky that your course focuses of C in the second year (I wish mine did that lol).