How to reply to newbies?

[Frogs Hair]

Being a newbie , either way is ok with me . I enjoy the command line , so learning a new command is always a plus and I prefer that .

[donkyhotay]

Working with newbies both online and in real life I find it much easier to say:
"copy and paste the following command into the CLI"
then it is to say:
"Find application in the upper left hand corner, click on software center, type <program name> into the search, what results do you see? double check your spelling on the search, what do you see now? now click on the one marked <program name>, no not the one marked <something similar> cancel out of that, click on, wait! stop! don't click on that again! <sigh> @#$% it, just copy and paste the following command into the CLI"
GUI is great for people trying to figure stuff out themselves but if someone really has no clue whats going on it's much easier for them to just copy and paste something into the CLI to fix it. They don't have to understand the command to use it and once they have more experience they'll learn how to do things themselves either from the CLI or GUI whichever works best for them.

[sydbat]

Maybe, but they don't need to be shown how to immediately, especially for tasks where there is a perfectly good GUI.

Being at the bottom of a learning curve sucks, we tend to forget that from our smug position near the top. Stuff like this seems easy and obvious to us, but it's weird and confusing to newbs. We should be bending over backwards to make it as easy as possible for them.

Unless someone specifically requests a command line tool (and they do) then they should be pointed at the GUI tool. They're far more likely to remember how to use the GUI in six weeks time than they are the command line method. Teaching the GUI teaches self-reliance and builds confidence. With confidence comes the ability to take on more advanced knowledge (such as CLI use). Diving in to the advanced subjects first just intimidates people and drives them away.

It's just basic teaching practice:

1. Move from the known to the unknown
2. Move from the simple to the complex

Many people give the CLI method because it's simply less typing for them, and they want to score geek points by getting in the first answer. I think that's lazy and selfish. If you can't be bothered tailoring your advice to the correct level, then don't reply to newbs.

++

As someone new to giving advice in these forums and as I lack extensive knowledge of the outer workings of Linux, let alone the inner workings, I prefer to give advice based on the GUI and its menus.

I have been following the networking forum. I wonder if some are trying to solve their problems with wireless and networking in too complicated a manner. Ubuntu does what I want and it works. I can also learn how to change things using the menus. From here I can advise others on how to solve their problems.

I have also experienced following command-line instructions only for something to fail. Sometimes you can know so much that you fail to understand how little the other person knows. The answer is simple to you but to people like me it is like a foreign language. I also think that many should do more research before asking questions. The same 'not working' questions are asked again and again.

These forums exist because Ubuntu is not pre-installed. So, anyone installing it needs to learn to do things that they did not need to learn when they first brought the computer.

Regards.

Also ++.

I try to help as much as I can, often with a GUI solution. Other times with a CLI solution. It really does depend on where the user is posting and how their question is worded.

Then, if it is a question that has been asked many times, I do a quick search, post one or two similar thread links, and let the OP know that searching is useful. I try not to be condescending (emphasis on try).

[MasterNetra]

The problem is that it is much easier to say "type sudo apt-get install gimp into a terminal" than to describe where to find and how to use the Software Centre to someone. If you're replying to a lot of support threads, it gets tiring quite quickly when you're advising people to use the GUI route all the time.

Perhaps in reality it should be easier for users to find these kind of features themselves in the first place? I think things like the Ubuntu Manual Project should be advertised much more than it is since this is basically what it's for.

There is this nifty thing called copy and paste. Create your reply for the GUI route, save it in a document and when you need it, open it and copy the contents and paste it onto forum or where ever.

[sydbat]

There is this nifty thing called copy and paste. Create your reply for the GUI route, save it in a document and when you need it, open it and copy the contents and paste it onto forum or where ever.

I like this. I'm going to start doing it.

[scouser73]

I think it's important to give as much detailed assistance to newbies as possible, as not everyone is familiar with the terminal and how to make full use of it.

It's sort of like Paying It Forward, if that makes any sense, lol.

[mojo risin]

I think you need to differ between newbies who just want a working system and newbies who are actually also interested in terminals and the make up of a system.

I do remember Dos from my early childhood and I was curious about how the command line looks in here. I am sure interested to learn how to use it and how to improve the system without having to rely too much on oneself.I would say you offer both solutions at first so the newbie can decide whether he prefers the GUI way or the terminal way.

[MasterNetra]

I think it's important to give as much detailed assistance to newbies as possible, as not everyone is familiar with the terminal and how to make full use of it.

It's sort of like Paying It Forward, if that makes any sense, lol.

Not when they first starting out you don't as it may scare them off, many will most likely just become casual users, but when they are comfortable with the OS, you could I suppose supply them with a Beginners guide to the terminal that explains how and why its useful as well as the basics in using it.

[sikander3786]

Working with newbies both online and in real life I find it much easier to say:
"copy and paste the following command into the CLI"
then it is to say:
"Find application in the upper left hand corner, click on software center, type <program name> into the search, what results do you see? double check your spelling on the search, what do you see now? now click on the one marked <program name>, no not the one marked <something similar> cancel out of that, click on, wait! stop! don't click on that again! <sigh> @#$% it, just copy and paste the following command into the CLI"
GUI is great for people trying to figure stuff out themselves but if someone really has no clue whats going on it's much easier for them to just copy and paste something into the CLI to fix it. They don't have to understand the command to use it and once they have more experience they'll learn how to do things themselves either from the CLI or GUI whichever works best for them.

I don't think you need to hold one's finger and take him across. Instead I will tell one to go to "Software Center" and search for "GIMP". That's all. He is a newbie to Linux, Ubuntu, not new to computers and OS etc. He will himself figure out where is the button for "Install" and what the package is offering to him (as the description is always there).

It is easy to teach one to use "Software Center" than "apt-get". In software center there is a bit margin of error i.e, spelling. But in apt-get, you have to be dead accurate.

And then when he has to install something else, he will himself go to Software Center and try to do it himself unless some complications arise.

In the beginning I was also getting annoyed when everyone used to tell me to go to terminal and type "etc etc" and my friends, sitting besides me, starring and saying "He is gonna be mad very soon (due to lots of typing, editing files etc)." Then I found that there was a possibility to do almost everything via GUI in Ubuntu and I adopted it.

I agree, CLI has got the learning curve, it is far more stable, accurate and powerful but not for the beginners. A newbie doesn't even know that his password is not going to show up as ***** in terminal when he asks for root privileges and there are many newbies asking about it in the forums and web. Then you have to tell him to just hit enter after typing his password and he "learns".

There are many people arguing in favor of GUI and many against it. Yet one has to think that this is 2010, there is 3D, desktop effects and appealing graphics going on the computer. Linux is also for beginners and home users, not only for geeks and server environments and that will be accomplished only when there is not much typing involved. Everything should be just a few clicks away.

[giddyup306]

Give them the command line. If they can't grasp that concept Linux probably isn't for them. They will need to learn how to use it sooner or later.