Still unnerved about Shuttleworth and CNR

[Arktis]

I have embraced ubuntu since the day I discovered it. To me, the philosophy has always seemed right on target.

Then Kevin Carmony showed up. Here is a quote from a post I directed to him:

To Kevin Carmony:

I don't think introducing a closed source method to installing proprietary software in an extremely ignorant-friendly way is what I would call a step forward. I am also suprised that Mark Shuttleworth thinks it is a good idea as you say. I am not particularly pleased about this at all. Linux is a powerful driving force for the creation and adoption of free and open alternatives. If you make the adoption of already mainstream proprietary stuff on Linux easy, then you are hurting the future of open alternatives.

And why the opinion polling? Why not just simply go ahead and offer it if it's so great? I think you have watched the Ubuntu Community closely, as I'm sure many companies have, and decided that the community here holds a very large mindshare with Ubuntu users and even the Linux community as a whole. So this is the reason for the idea introduction and polling. You know how some people might feel about this and you also know that this is a key place to be if you want to successfully introduce something.

Please keep your CNR at least 100 yards away from my Ubuntu at all times.

So you can see how I felt about this. But that's not really what this post is about. What I want to bring attention to and gather information about is the fact that Kevin Carmony stated the Mark was totally on board with the idea before he presented it to us here at the forums. This above all is what bothers me the most.

I've talked to Mark about it. We both like the idea a great deal. We'd just make a way to apt-get the CNR client for free, then Ubuntu users could choose to simply use apt, OR, for those who want the one-click convenience of CNR, they could try CNR for free for 15 days, and if they like it, pay for the service ($20 per year).

To my knowledge, Mark Shuttleworth has made no public statement about this. Please DO correct me if I am wrong here. I want that.

So what I am asking is, now that the CNR issue seems to have cooled down quite a bit, what are your thoughts about Mark being supportive of this? Doesn't that alarm you in the least bit? I thought Mark had even said something at a conference to the effect of money being the root of all evil and so forth, or am I simply mistaken here? I am reffering to a video that was distributed over the internet at a Linux conference with Shuttleworth. I wish I could remember the name... hopefully someone will know what I am talking about.

I want to be clear on this; is ubuntu only a FOSS distro for practical purposes such as financial reasons or simply to look good, or is it really for purposes of philosophy? If it really is about the philosophy, how can one reconcile Mark's apparent support for something like CNR or for facilitating commercial interests at all?

One more thing: if this thread should happen to take off, please keep the discussion rational and respectful.

[htinn]

It looks to me like you opt-in. As long as it's opt-in and not opt-out, I'm all for it, as well.

[Arktis]

It looks to me like you opt-in. As long as it's opt-in and not opt-out, I'm all for it, as well.

This is NOT about an attack on CNR. This is about Mark Shuttleworth's apparent support for it and reconciling that with what I thought ubuntu and Shuttleworth were all about. In case you do not know who Mark Shuttleworth is, see the wiki entry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth

Shuttleworth for all intents and purposes IS ubuntu, though he has established provisions for it's continuation in the event anything should happen to him.

[njf]

Ubuntu Foundation/Canonical/Whatever makes no money from CNR, Linspire does, if I understand it correctly.

You know, there may be some users in here that think their time saved is well worth the money.

[maruchan]

I am reffering to a video that was distributed over the internet at a Linux conference with Shuttleworth. I wish I could remember the name... hopefully someone will know what I am talking about.

Are you talking about the lecture he gave at the Debian conference? The one where he had long hair, shorts, and snazzy shoes on?

I don't remember anything about money being the root of all evil (in fact the original quote is "the *love* of money is the root of all evil"...). He did mention proprietary software going down, and that he made provisions for his death, and that he won't be having children (of all people, he should..).

If it really is about the philosophy, how can one reconcile Mark's apparent support for something like CNR or for facilitating commercial interests at all?

Well, look at the license of almost *any* Linux distro and you will see that you are free to run a company, make money off of it (selling support or add-on services, or just using the GIMP to make art for people...).

Linux does facilitate commercial interests in a very good way. This is why you still see businesses using it.

And who cares if somehow Ubuntu facilitates commercial interests? Who cares if it facilitates political interests? Religious interests? The interests of a neo-Nazi group? The interests of an eco-terrorist organization? Organized crime?

None of this makes Ubuntu bad. It's just a tool. People will use it for all kinds of things. Same goes for Windows, Mac OS, etc. etc.

If you think there is something wrong with the aforementioned uses, it is *your* responsibility to show them why or where there is a better way. I use Ubuntu to make money. Please, tell me how that is wrong.

[Kvark]

On a video of a speach by Shuttleworth he said that he is hoping to make money on Ubuntu by providing paid support with Canonical. That makes Ubuntu a commercial endeavour even if the software itself can be downloaded and even ordered by mail for free.

I personally think that Shuttleworth, Canonical and Ubuntu should be positive to (but definately not get involved in) third party projects that support Ubuntu even if those projects are not open source. As long as it stays third party it doesn't have any influence on Ubuntu itself. It just gives the users more options to choose from.

[NeghVar]

Y im not really against him being onboard with this type of thing, its not like he is going to include it right in there beside apt or synaptic, it will just be another piece of software in the repositories... it would be like if he banned gimp from installing on ubuntu or firefox or openoffice or any of the other litterally 1000s of pieces of software availble from the repositories.

[Master Shake]

Oh boy, here we go again.


Let me get a chair and some popcorn...

[aysiu]

Mark thinks it's a good idea. He's entitled to his opinion.
He's not incorporating CNR into Ubuntu by default.
He's saying that if Linspire makes a port of CNR for Ubuntu, that's good.

Calm down.

[zubrug]

I still have a subscription to a gold CNR account. Got one last year, I am a noob and it was "very" helpfull and changed my mind about linux in general. I then tried several other distro's. Being a transplanted South African I battled to get Ubuntu working. For weeks I would unplug my monitor from its Nvidia card and plug it into the main board trying everything to get it to work. Thanks Tselliot! Messed everything up a dozen times.
Blah, Blah, my point is that CNR gave me a opportunity to really appreciate linux. It is just a great big automatix which I found very usefull, If CNR was available for me when I first tried Ubuntu I would have used it!
Linux can be everything to everyone, this will really help build the linux base.
On the negitive side, stuff on CNR is older, but it provides a good experience to a those who would like to experience something better than MS.
CNR is a great (really great) app for most new users.
The cost should come down, by popularity or competion from this community.

Do not forget the linux learning curve and the issues like codecs in the US, CNR solves some of these issues as well.