Considering a system 76 laptop...

[Bluspace]

My old Acer finally died this week... at just about the right time I suppose, since I was planning on purchasing a new laptop for uni anyway. Anyhow, being in the market to buy my own computer this time, I must say, I am quite tempted by System 76's offerings, and overall attitude. I have been an on and off linux user for a while now, due to one thing or another, and see this as a potential bridge to getting everything to just work under linux.

Anyway, the two models I was looking at, specifically, were the Lemur ultra thin, and the Pangolin performance. Technically, the excuse for buying another laptop was for school(word processing, video, web browsing etc.) . But, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intending on doing a bit of tinkering and non-typical work as well. Most likely some programming, maybe a bit of lite work with the graphics tablet, a bit of low poly 3d modeling, audio editing etc.(I do have a nice desktop though, which anything intensive will usually be done on anyway.These are merely possibilities, not necessities.) Having something small with good battery life was originally the plan. Which I suppose would be the lemur in this case. But after looking at other higher end notebooks, Ive begun to doubt this(although, this could just be my natural tendency towards doubt).

Now for the questions...

Does system 76 include the necessary windows driver with the lemur/pangolin? Just in case I need to dual boot in the future.

How much performance/battery life improvement is there with the solid state drives?

Is there any chance that the pangolin will be receiving a bigger battery?(As I think the 2 hour maximum battery life will be the ultimate deal breaker for me)

How are the keyboards on these two models? (a very subjective question, I know)... I assume that the Lemur has a full sized keyboard?

... I suppose that's enough for now... The real over encompassing question, I suppose , is will the lemur be adequate for my needs. And likewise, whether the Pangolin could possibly meet my requirements, now, or in the near future. Thanks!

[satsujinka]

As far as I am aware System76 provides Windows drivers for all of their computers (you may have to get them off of their site.)

An SSD will drastically reduce loading times, which will certainly make the laptop feel faster.

I doubt the Pangolin will get a bigger battery. The ODM that designs the laptops used by System76 tends to think of their laptops as desktop replacements. And so their battery life is typically short with no larger battery to fall back to.

I've not used either of the two laptops, but by all that I've heard their keyboards are decent.

From the sounds of it, as you seem to be very battery dependent, I would go with the lemur. I would assume that the lemur could do what you wish, however, the 3D stuff may be a bit rough with the intel gpu. And while the Pangolin will certainly be more than powerful enough to handle anything you would throw at it; the battery life is just not there.

[isantop]

That's all about right.

You can find Drivers for all of our laptops at knowledge76.com. Just click on "Find Your System" on the left and follow the prompts.

We have a Ratel Ultra in shop that boots in about 6 seconds, blowing Ubuntu's target out of the water. It has an SSD in it. The Lemur and an SSD should also be pretty quick.

We have looked for a bigger battery to fit in the Pangolin, but we haven't been able to find one at all. I also doubt we'll see one soon.

The Lemur has a nice keyboard on it. Our CEO uses one, and he loves it every time he uses it. The Pangolin has a keyboard similar to late model Macbooks (a.k.a. the Chiclets style). It's nice, and while I've heard from external sources that it's not as nice as Thinkpad keyboards, it does take a close second.

I agree with the above statement regarding which one to go with. The Lemur should be able to handle Low-poly 3D easily, and it does have the battery life that the Pangolin lacks.

[Bluspace]

Thanks for the prompt responses! I am now leaning towards the Lemur with the 80gb SSD and 4gb of ram(If I do indeed go with system76 this time around). The one thing I am still on the fence about, is this configuration as the lemur vs. The Asus 30vt/jc product line. I just went over to Xotic pc, and can configure a comparable Asus(su7300, 4gb ram, 80gb intel ssd) for a bit under $1000 dollars(This: http://www.xoticpc.com/asus-ul30aa2-...wconfigure=yes). Actually, for about the same price as the Lemur, I could get the 160gb intel ssd. It is also interesting to note that they have 2 dimm slots, rather than one like the Lemur.

They also have a different model, the JC(This: http://www.xoticpc.com/asus-u30jca1-...wconfigure=yes) that I can configure for the same price as the Lemur, with Intel 80gb ssd,a 320gb second internal hard drive, the i3 processor, switchable graphics, and from what I gather, better battery life.

Now, I understand the reasons why Asus can have more competitive pricing the s76. However, as someone who is on a budget and may not be able to buy another computer for a while, this discrepancy seems problematic. I have not looked into Linux compatibility on these machines, which would certainly help my indecisiveness. But still, the factor of price, battery life, and performance at first glance, seem to be better served on the Asus, based on specs alone. Although Ubuntu for me tends to be snappier than windows.

I suppose what I am really asking here, is for you to convince me of S76's greatness. However, joking aside, I'd be really interested to know if any of you have had experience with these other notebooks, and whether there are any factors I missed that would help sway me to make a decision. Not an easy task, so people tell me...

[themrfreeze]

Installing Linux on a desktop is relatively easy. Installing it on a laptop and getting all of the laptop-specific stuff working (like suspend/hibernation, function keys, fan control, power management, etc.) can be exceptionally difficult. Sometimes it's not even possible.

I'm in the same boat as you (wanting a Linux laptop but not quite sure which way to go), and the decision is not an easy one (and I work in IT!) With a laptop that has Ubuntu pre-installed (ie: System76, ZaReason, and even Dell), everything works out of the box...there's no messing around necessary. You pay for the convenience though...a narrower selection of machines, and the price will be a bit higher. There's also the question of what happens down the road...will parts for your System76 or ZaReason laptop be available a few years down the road? Will the companies even still exist?

With a mainstream brand, the question of parts or the company being around isn't really an issue. However, you have to deal with generally poorer technical support (including NO Linux support), and obviously there's the question of whether Ubuntu will work 100% on whatever particular laptop you decide to buy.

So ultimately, you need to weigh all the factors and decide what you're comfortable going with.

[Bluspace]

@themrfreeze

Yes, that is precisely the dilemma! Thanks for summing it up so succinctly.

To make matters even more interesting, this question also seems to be answered on principles, as well as on utility. One may like using Ubuntu, maybe even prefer it, but I know many who also believe in it, and open source software in general(I suppose I am guilty of this a bit).

In fact, before remembering about system76(I heard about it a while back, but had no money), I was looking at the 13in Macbook pro, primarily because of its battery life, portability, and well, it wasn't a windows machine(I have a desktop for that, I thought).

But you are entirely correct, Linux is fairly easy to get working on the desktop, and more difficult to get working on a Laptop. In fact, I have Ubuntu on a second hard drive in this computer right now. Works very nicely. The old laptop that just died, however, always had some kind of problem, and forget about all the extra buttons, and power management features. Granted, I didn't spend a whole lot of time working on it... Ubuntu was the closest OS to achieving functional status, whereas (free?)BSD was the least. That was a long time ago however...

I suppose I will have to mull this over some more. The one thing I do know, is that I need a machine with enough battery life for class(at least 3 hours, note taking), but enough performance to code, run multiple apps, and run a vm on the off hours. The light form factor was obviously ideal, and generally goes hand in hand with the battery life, which puts me in with the Lemur, If i go S76 it seems...

I see Tom has 2 Gazelle ultra's left... Can anyone tell me what their experience was with these? I would be looking at the one with the p8400, 500gb 7200rpm drive, and 2gb ram. How much of a performance boost would this give me over the Lemur, and how much extra weight, heat and any other troubles should I expect? Integrated graphics? Screen resolution? 64bit? Quality in general? etc. Thanks for all the help guys!

[themrfreeze]

To make matters even more interesting, this question also seems to be answered on principles, as well as on utility. One may like using Ubuntu, maybe even prefer it, but I know many who also believe in it, and open source software in general(I suppose I am guilty of this a bit).

All operating system have their supporters and detractors.

In fact, before remembering about system76(I heard about it a while back, but had no money), I was looking at the 13in Macbook pro, primarily because of its battery life, portability, and well, it wasn't a windows machine(I have a desktop for that, I thought).

I administer a network with a lot of Mac laptops. The 13" MBPro is a sweet machine, and Apple does some great industrial design, but if you think that all that extra money you spend on one equates to better reliability, think again.

I suppose I will have to mull this over some more. The one thing I do know, is that I need a machine with enough battery life for class(at least 3 hours, note taking), but enough performance to code, run multiple apps, and run a vm on the off hours.

Battery life and performance are generally an inverse relationship...3 hours is a lot to ask out of any machine. You could always carry a spare battery. Also, maybe using a netbook for class, and notebook for serious work, might be a solution.

The light form factor was obviously ideal, and generally goes hand in hand with the battery life, which puts me in with the Lemur, If i go S76 it seems...

I'm looking long and hard at a Lemur too. However, the 64-bit version of Linux is a stumbling block (since Adobe pulled the 64-bit version of Flash). Not sure if the Lemur can be had with 32-bit Ubuntu or not.

[Bluspace]

Battery life and performance are generally an inverse relationship...3 hours is a lot to ask out of any machine. You could always carry a spare battery. Also, maybe using a netbook for class, and notebook for serious work, might be a solution.

Naturally, and this is something I quickly noticed hasn't changed since last time I looked at laptops a few years back. I actually am still considering a Pangolin with a second battery, and a car adapter, however, I just am not sure how much of a nuisance it would be to keep charging...swapping... charging...etc. In fact, can someone who does do this, tell me if there is an option to hibernate/standby(I suppose using the hard disk) when you switch the battery, so you can go right back into what you were doing?

As for the netbook option... yes Ive considered it, but actually, I think that the better equivalent is just using my desktop for serious work, and getting something like a Lemur, which really can be used for most things. I guess I am beginning to answer my own questions here...

I'm looking long and hard at a Lemur too. However, the 64-bit version of Linux is a stumbling block (since Adobe pulled the 64-bit version of Flash). Not sure if the Lemur can be had with 32-bit Ubuntu or not.

I heard about that... food for thought...

[tech newbie]

I though on 64bit linux you can run 32bit flash with the package nspluginwrapper ?

[msrinath80]

With the new Google chrome, flash is inbuilt. So no need to worry.