how many users open support threads when everything is working fine for them?Originally Posted by luckylucky
Good point... and it is the point
I Ubuntu, Therefore, I Am
how many users open support threads when everything is working fine for them?Good point... and it is the point
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Tea Glorious Tea!
99% I'm guessing
Best thread everCode:while true; do echo -n "RiceMonster "; done
I Ubuntu, Therefore, I Am
the other 1% must be posting about the many wonderful tourist attractions available in modern day Ricemonsteristan.
but op, my point is simply that people experiencing problems always assume that everyone else is experiencing the same thing, and feels the same way. you have to remember, system development is a moving target. no one in IT has the luxury of taking the time to perfect everything. this is why just last year Dan Kaminisy found a gaping security hole in the DNS specification; a protocol that has been in wide spread use for more than 20 years. javascript is 15 years old if it's a day, and people are still figuring out ways to cut holes in the sandbox. no system will ever be perfect. you accept that, and move on.
yesterday I was fighting a thread stack size limitation presented by a resent update to MS IIS. today I'm fighting BSODs caused by bad windows updates. it doesn't matter what platform you are on. Monday I'll be fighting whatever the day brings me, and thank goodness. if it all worked perfectly, I (and prolly RiceMonster as well) would be out of work.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Ubuntu Member
You are missing a simple reality of software: many problems run deeper than they look, and are better fixed at their source. That means rewrites and new components. It would be impossible to “focus on fixes” without making new things.
Just relax and enjoy the ride.
5 Cups of Ubuntu
Here is a suggestion. If you do not like Ubuntu, there is nothing forcing you to stick with it; you can switch to another distribution.
Here are three suggestions:
http://www.gentoo.org/
http://www.opensuse.org/en/
http://pclinuxos.com/
They are ordered from least like Ubuntu to most like Ubuntu. I recommend trying Gentoo Linux first. It is only major distribution that puts its users in charge of its design. Unlike a distribution like Ubuntu, which is like a rock in how difficult its is to reshape, Gentoo Linux is like water because it can be induced to take any shape you want. You can customize any aspect of it to serve your purposes, from how software is built to how it is configured and it does as much as possible to stay out of your way during that process.
You might also want to try OpenSUSE, which is probably a good starter distribution for your friends. I imagine that is what you wanted Ubuntu 10.04 to be, with the exception that it is based on RPM packages rather than Debian packages.
The last option, which is probably the one you would be most comfortable using initially (although not in the long term in my opinion) is PCLinuxOS, which is also RPM based, but it uses the Debian package manager. Reputation wise, it would be advisable to use OpenSUSE over this for your friends. OpenSUSE is reputed to have more packages and much better KDE integration than PCLinuxOS.
Tea Glorious Tea!
Or B: Bother to upstream instead of patching
Tea Glorious Tea!
That's why with my next computer I am getting in a week and a half, I am installing Arch. I wanted a rolling-release distrobution that combats the problem of devs having to race to meet the 6-month release cycle. Plus you know what caused the problem when you install a few packages at once. And you can restore your system to what it was before the update.
I also like Arch because of it's simpliity. But it will be a learning process to install it
Besides, if you want a rock-stable OS, use Debian.
Scott
"I use a Unix based OS, therefore I get laid about as often as I reboot."
Tea Glorious Tea!
You know, more often than not any Ubuntu related problems are actually either operator or hardware related. I'm willing to bet that at least 95% of the time problems can be traced back to "abusiveness" by operators who think that they know much more about computers than they actually do.
I don't know what your many problems or stability issues have been over the past who knows how many years, but I can tell you that I've installed Ubuntu now on over a dozen machines, ranging in age from unbelievably 9 years old, to new machines with Windows7. Not flavored down versions like Xubuntu or Crunchbang, but the real deal on every single machine. Well guess what ... I haven't experienced *ANY* major stability issues on any of those machines, regardless if laptop or desktop PC. As a matter of fact, I'll take that a step further and say that Ubuntu 9.04, 9.10, and 10.04 have all 3 run more stable than any Windows versions that I've seen installed over any length of time (except for Win7 which I never plan to use). Considering the fact that I've built, upgraded, and repaired literally hundreds of Windows based machines, I think that's saying a lot.
Maybe you just need to learn how to use computers properly .... ???
PLEASE ... don't waste anyone's time (your own included) with foolish or utterly useless comments!
Way Too Much Ubuntu
Glad you like it here!
Please don't say '*******'I've long since dropped
*******
Usually you need one Windows computer for those special tasks, so It's okay if you still use it a bitand don't even have it installed on most computers, just ubuntu.
Many of us hope so.I've held the vision of it being a serious desktop for worldwide use,
They usually will. If you see something not getting fixed, report it. If still nothing is happening, code it yourself or see if you can prod someone into coding a patch for the bug or issue. That's the beauty of open source.and believed that the previous bugs would work themselves out over time.
Because major companies use Linux because it's sooo unstable.Also I bought into the *myth* that linux is stable...
Ubuntu != Linux. Also, you really shouldn't try speak for everyone's experience, it's irritating. On that same coin I could say that Windows is so slow as to be unusable, when in reality it's just my old laptop running Vista.a crappy myth because as far as I & MANY OTHERS are concerned, and as painful as it is for me to admit it, ******* even with its' many issues is far more stable and superior to ubuntu.
It's been pointed out that the devs rarely, if at all come here. I don't know why, but they don't.For heaven's sake PLEASE STOP DEVELOPMENT ON NEW FEATURES AND JUST FOCUS ON FIXING THE MANY EXISTING PROBLEMS!!!
Reminds me of this XKCD comic: http://xkcd.com/306/I used to like the idea of ubuntu trying new avantguard ideas in the distros, but now I am sick and tired of them, since they suck up the attention of the developers and thus the bugs that need attention never see the light of day.
I'm glad you acknowledge this.Yes, these are my own opinions,
People who don't have the issues you're having tend to post about them less, so that's not entirely accurate.however I have seen MANY MANY MANY posts of many other people voicing the same opinions.
It would be rude and improper for someone to.So please don't blast me for speaking up here
'I may have these bugs, and I may complain about them, but I'm not going to see if 10.10 fixes them. Then I might actually not be able to complain about anything.'I am just one voice of many. I can assure you that I couldn't care less about 10.10 release with all the new features promised, like idea-icons (or whatever they're called). I actually have zero intention of downloading 10.10.
'Let's focus all the dev efforts on making Lucid Lynx Debian Stable, so when the next LTS comes around all those new features will be poorly or half-implemented and I can complain once again that Ubuntu is unstable.'What I WANT is to see heavy focus on 10.04.X. 10.04 is a nice looking feature rich distro, and for now we really don't need anything more... just STABILITY!!!
Once again... The devs don't hang out here...Developers, please please please please please forget about new ideas and new features... PLEASE FOCUS exclusively upon fixing existing problems and making things stable.
Wait what? Are you mad?!!!! FREEZE NEW DEVELOPMENT !!!
What issues have you had? Have you reported them?I've been pushing ubuntu on all my friends for years, and have expected to make 10.04 the release that I would use to convert all my friends. Damn this release!!! I am so unhappy with it, experiencing daily frustrations with it myself, and the few times that I've tried to show my friends how "awesome ubuntu is" I've been left embarrassed, making lame excuses for ubuntu. ****, I am so pisesd that this distro which ought to have been the flagship distro to introduce the world to linux is so damn embarrassing.
And Ubuntu will lag behind Windows, Mac, and other Desktop oriented Linux distros.1 - FORGET DEVELOPING NEW FEATURES
And Ubuntu will become Debian2 - FOCUS ON STABILITY
AND UBUNTU WILL BECOME DEBIAN3 - FORGET ABOUT 10.10
AND UBUNTU WILL BECOME DEBIAN4 - FOCUS ON STABIITY
AND UBUNTU WILL BECOME DEBIAN5 - FREEZE NEW IDEAS
DEBIAN6 - FOCUS ON STABILITY
We're working on it. Please help us by reporting some bugs and maybe contributing a patch.7 - JUST FIX EXISTING ISSUES
Also, have you considered Debian?
Last edited by MCVenom; June 28th, 2010 at 08:11 PM.
5 Cups of Ubuntu
i agreed. focus on stability and fixes, please. i you want to stay up-to-date, why not switch to rolling release system instead of 6-months-reinstalling system?
i think that would be great. besides ubuntu, i use archlinux also, it is rolling release distro and very very bleeding edge that you will get updates everytime you fire up your machine. in the other hand, it is more stable and bug-less than my beloved ubuntu.
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