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Thread: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

  1. #1
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    Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    On the 10th I was going to burn the daily iso to do some testing and noticed that it appeared to be oversize even though the daily build web page showed the size to be 685 MB (by memory).

    I didn't think too much of that and noticed yesterday they never did post a new daily, then this AM I zsynced the new build and while the web page says it's 676 MB it showed up as 708.3 MB in Lucid.

    So a light bulb went on and I booted into Jaunty and checked the size, viola 675.5 MB, so it wasn't an oversize iso after all

    So now what? I have no idea what package to file a bug report against? Nautilus? That seems awfully broad.
    Last edited by kansasnoob; March 12th, 2010 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Well I decided to just let Apport sort this out so I booted back into Lucid and opened the Downloads folder and clicked on Report a problem, errrm that's a problem:

    Screenshot.jpg

    So I guess I'll try starting with ubuntu-bug apport

  3. #3
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Nope! Can't report any bugs using Apport!

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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    OK I filed a bug report using "http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+filebug?no-redirect":

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...us/+bug/538165

    I sure would appreciate anyone checking the size of any isos or other large files in their Lucid to see if they have the same problem.

    I'm going to see if todays daily build will run for me and see how it reads the sizes of my isos.

  5. #5
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Just double checked this using todays daily build Live and it's the same way. Reads an iso that's about 676MB as 708.3MB.

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    Question Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    I don't see how this can be right but the reply I got:


    Thank you for your bug report. However, this is due to recent changes to standardise the units that are used on the desktop (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy for details).

    Your issue is that the web page is using the SI prefix for presenting a base 2 number, which is incorrect (718 * (10^6/2^20) = 685)
    Changed in nautilus (Ubuntu):
    status: Confirmed → Invalid
    All other OS's on my machine say the image is 675.5MB but lucid says it's 708.3MB. I tried installing Thunar and it reads the image as 675.5!

    What kind of hassle is it going to be telling a 700MB disc to hold a 708.3MB image??????????

    Whoever is putting up the Daily iso's posts the size as 676MB!!!!!!!!!!

    So I guess that Lucid's Nautilus is right, the devs that put up the size of the Daily iso's are wrong. Thunar is wrong and I suppose CD manufacturers are wrong - they're not 700MB dics anymore??????????

    WTF?????????????????

    Time to take a break from the insanity!

  7. #7
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Right. Your image is 708.3 MB, which is equal to 675.5 MiB, with an i. Jaunty was wrong to use "MB" when it meant "MiB". Lucid is using the correct units and this will solve a lot of confusion.
    "Please remember to do things the Ubuntu way. There is always more than one solution to a problem, choose the one you think will be the easiest for the user. ... Try to think as a green user and choose the simplest solution." — Code of Conduct

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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endolith View Post
    Right. Your image is 708.3 MB, which is equal to 675.5 MiB, with an i. Jaunty was wrong to use "MB" when it meant "MiB". Lucid is using the correct units and this will solve a lot of confusion.
    Well suffice it to say I disagree with the notion that "this will solve a lot of confusion". I much more agree with the last comment here:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy

    This policy is a real trouble-maker. (See http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...84&postcount=6). 700 "MB" CDs are apparently 700 MiB, but have always been referred to as 700 MB. The consequence is that people are seeing "oversized" ISOs when they really are properly sized, which is a much bigger issue than someone getting confused about the file size. Additionally, (@last poster) systems such as Windows use base-2, and the quickest way of checking integrity is looking at size.--Ibidem
    While I'm sure you're technically correct there can be 180 degrees of separation between what's technically correct and what's user friendly. I have no technical training in computer technology, and I'm sure most end users don't possess that skill level.

    Consider this GUI:

    Screenshot-Image Burning Setup.png

    Now most users probably don't even bother to look, but when I see 707.1MB an alarm goes off. Whoa my CD's are only 700MB, but it also says I'll have 29.8MB of free space

    Man oh man I sure got a bargain on those CD's they're 736.9MB each, I sure wished I'd bought more of those

    So to most end users IMHO it creates confusion rather than solving it. Even more so when the behavior differs in Thunar, I haven't been able to check Konqueror as the current Live CD won't run on my hardware.

    I'd almost bet iso testing is going to raise a few eyebrows Are they to use your new formula? If so everyone will say, hey do we need to use DVD's?

    We'll see.

  9. #9
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Quote Originally Posted by kansasnoob View Post
    Well suffice it to say I disagree with the notion that "this will solve a lot of confusion". I much more agree with the last comment here:
    So, instead of using standardized units that have an unambiguous meaning, you want to use units that can mean different things in different places? And you think that will reduce confusion??

    While I'm sure you're technically correct there can be 180 degrees of separation between what's technically correct and what's user friendly. I have no technical training in computer technology, and I'm sure most end users don't possess that skill level.
    Right. End users with no computer training think that kilo- means 1000. Which it does.
    kilometer = 1000 meters.
    kilogram = 1000 grams.
    kilobyte = 1000 bytes.

    It's only the people who have had some computer science training who even know about Windows' stupid, non-standard 1024 definition, and they're smart enough to deal with the discrepancy.

    The Linux Programmer's Manual describes how to do it right:

    http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...7/units.7.html

    Apple follows the standards, too:

    http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2419

    Is the typical Apple user more technically skilled than the typical Linux user?

    Consider this GUI:

    Screenshot-Image Burning Setup.png

    Now most users probably don't even bother to look, but when I see 707.1MB an alarm goes off. Whoa my CD's are only 700MB, but it also says I'll have 29.8MB of free space
    Yes, that's confusing. Your CD is actually 734 MB = 700 MiB. They need to fix the bug in Brasero:

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ro/+bug/315913

    This guy says it better than I ever could:

    http://lpar.ath0.com/2008/07/15/si-u...ea-for-sanity/
    "Please remember to do things the Ubuntu way. There is always more than one solution to a problem, choose the one you think will be the easiest for the user. ... Try to think as a green user and choose the simplest solution." — Code of Conduct

  10. #10
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    Re: Lucid reads file size wrong/what package to debug?

    Yes, that's confusing. Your CD is actually 734 MB = 700 MiB. They need to fix the bug in Brasero:
    I understand that now, but all of my discs are labeled 700MB (not MiB), so the average end user like me is going to think that if they right click an iso image in Nautilus and it says 707.1MB, or if Brasero shows the same it isn't going to fit. Or maybe all disc manufacturers need to be convinced to relabel their discs?

    And I'm not just being argumentative, now that I know I'll take this into consideration, it's not a show-stopper to me.

    But I'm sure I won't be the last to be puzzled. As I said we'll have to wait and see

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