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Thread: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

  1. #1
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    Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    I have spend the last couple of months playing with 9.10 and the three environments. I wanted to share my experience to see if it matches the rest of you.

    Gnome: Ubuntu is dragging a dead corpse. More and more Gnome looks and feels like a bunch of apps duck-taped together and hacked on top of each other. While compiz is cool, it is horribly slow, the media players do not integrate with the system, youtube and other flash apps randomly stop responding (they run, just cannot be clicked) and many other such issues. I know I can replace compiz with metacity, but then I might as well run XFCE (which has more features than metacity). I feel that the only reason that anything in Gnome works, is because of the enormous effort by the huge Ubuntu community (too much effort that can be more productive if spend somewhere else).

    KDE4: The black sheep of the family. After the initial release of 4.0, KDE got very bad popularity, furthermore, since Ubuntu is Gnome-centric kubuntu has to deal with a lot of additional issues (such as getting all the apps to work with the different sound server). Kubuntu 9.04 had no sound on my desktop (even though the 8.10 with the beta version of KDE 4.2 had no trouble). 9.10 work well on the desktop, but would slow one of my laptops to a crawl and wouldn't even install on the other. The only way I found to make KDE work is by installing Ubuntu and then adding kubuntu-desktop. Once you get KDE working, however, you get huge boost of performance from the faster Kwin, you get more options, better integratino of the default apps and many other cool features. I would encourage people to give it a try, even the most hardcore Gnome fans; if nothing else, then you will at least get a better view of all the ares where Gnome is currently lacking.

    XFCE: WoW it is fast, but how do you do xyz. Actually I found this one to be the most stable DE right now and I really like it. The problem with XFCE is that it just doesn't have all the features one might expect from a modern desktop. I don't really hold this against the DE, since XFCE does exactly what it is supposed to do: run as fast and as light as it can. I just don't see XFCE becoming the DE for the average user.

    Hopeful for the future:

    Gnome Shell: The first screenshots and from what I read about it, I have somewhat mixed feelings, however, I reserve any judgement for after I get a chance to try it. I just hope it fixes all problems that Gnome has right now.

    Kubuntu 10.04: Right now KDE 4.3 (and soon KDE 4.4) is solid and has none of the problems of the infamous 4.0. My hope here is that the kubuntu project will catch up and in 10.04 we will see a stable KDE release that will wash away the bad fame.

    XFCE: keep on doing the good job. A very light DE is necessary for many people and one thing that Linux is proud of is the large variety of choice for the different people with different needs.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    I am not switching to KDE ever an ever.

    All that over-glossy bloat makes me queasy, I feel like I am running ******* instead of linux.

    And, most of what you mention is not gnome related:

    Compiz is little more that a toy, can give some nice effects, with zero integration. Example? I cannot run properly any graphical app w/o switching compiz off. I had this issue so many times, I haven't switched it on in a long while.

    Flash on linux can be hard to set up properly, but not impossible. You should blame adobe for that, not gnome. (unless gnome has been taken over by adobe and I am not aware of that....)

    I like some "K" app, like Ktorrent or kdenlive, but the naming BS with Ks has already gone too far. If gnome is to create an amount of apps with absurd names, just for integration sake, than fnome is going to lose an user here
    AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition 2,8 GHz - GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P - 6 GB RAM Mushkin DDR3 1333 - ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GT 1 GB DDR3

  3. #3
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    The windows gloss can be fixed by visual themes. Besides it isn't the looks that I am concerned with, but the functionality.

    I view compiz as more than a toy, mostly because of the hundreds of shortcuts that can be set up. Those actually add functionality that metacity lacks.

    Flash runs well under XFCE, KDE and Gnome + Metacity, so the problem that I am having is mostly compiz related (Adobe however does suck and without Adobe this would have been resolved long time ago).

    I am not a real fan of the K-naming conventions, however, when I say integration, I mean more than the name. For example, I can control Amarok by setting any combo of global shortcuts. Same goes for ktorrent, konqueror and in general for the k* apps.

    I do agree that most of the problems are Gnome related, and I would really hate it if KDE becomes the only fully featured DE (not because it is bad, but because competition is good). Right now, I just feel that Ubuntu is dragging a dead corpse.

  4. #4
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    I have tried a number of times to switch to KDE.

    I always end off using Gnome. I can get to programs and settings quicker in Gnome.

    Plus, I decided to use KDE's "tasks" feature, before realising that this is an extremely rough edge of KDE. Now I've got about six tasks, most of them identical, with seemingly no way to remove them. Horrible.

    Fedora and SLED ship with Gnome as the main desktop. Ubuntu is doing the most innovating with it though. Shows there's still plenty of life left in the old girl.
    Last edited by 3rdalbum; January 2nd, 2010 at 10:49 AM.
    I try to treat the cause, not the symptom. I avoid the terminal in instructions, unless it's easier or necessary. My instructions will work within the Ubuntu system, instead of breaking or subverting it. Those are the three guarantees to the helpee.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Miro View Post
    XFCE: WoW it is fast, but how do you do xyz. Actually I found this one to be the most stable DE right now and I really like it. The problem with XFCE is that it just doesn't have all the features one might expect from a modern desktop. I don't really hold this against the DE, since XFCE does exactly what it is supposed to do: run as fast and as light as it can. I just don't see XFCE becoming the DE for the average user.
    What features is Xfce lacking?

    BTW, xubuntu is hardly 'light and fast'. Maybe its been fixed more in 9.10, but under 9.04 (and previous) xubuntu uses pretty much the same amount of RAM and feels the same as normal ubuntu as far as speed goes. Minimal install is a different kettle of fish though....

    I really wish xubutnu wasnt packed with so many gnome programs as well.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
    What features is Xfce lacking?
    That was going to be my question as well!

    Quote Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
    BTW, xubuntu is hardly 'light and fast'. Maybe its been fixed more in 9.10, but under 9.04 (and previous) xubuntu uses pretty much the same amount of RAM and feels the same as normal ubuntu as far as speed goes. ...
    I really wish xubutnu wasnt packed with so many gnome programs as well.
    I dunno what they did, but xubuntu 9.10 really is fast. On one older computer, it's actually faster than Crunchbang!! Unbelievable, but true. On that single computer, at least.

    Xubuntu seems to have fewer issues than ubuntu does (at least in Karmic versions), perhaps because xubuntu doesn't ship with that annoying PulseAudio (nor Mono, if that matters to you) and mine boots up in 10 seconds and flies at mind-bending speed on a 5-year-old Dell with a scant 512 of RAM. Xubuntu has been on a diet, apparently! I never bothered to even try it until I got fed up with LXDE's bugginess on minimal Ubuntu (which I suppose is the reason for the long delays in the Lubuntu project). I had read a lot of posts about xubuntu's "bloat" and complaints that it was "not lightweight at all." So I never bothered with it 'til now. But whoa! What a well-kept secret!

    As for the Gnome apps in xubuntu, I guess that goes with the whole GTK thing. Gnome, Xfce, and even LXDE use it, and the best and/or most popular GTK apps are Gnome ones.

    Surprised and delighted by xubuntu,
    Robin
    Last edited by XubuRoxMySox; January 2nd, 2010 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    I switched to Kubuntu a while ago, and there is no going back to gnome for me. I tried but I felt quite limited, the amount of customization options in KDE is awesome and I've not had any of these "Little Quirks" I keep hearing people Mention.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    The thing I like most about KDE is it's built on qt4 gpl and is mono.net free. There are no apps in Kubuntu that use mono.net, not the case with Gnome.

    Interview How much do you love Microsoft's .NET? Enough to trust your Gnome applications to its APIs in the future?

    That's what Gnome leader Miguel de Icaza, believes should happen. Miguel calls .NET the "natural upgrade" for the Gnome platform, and enthused about the technology in an interview with us at LinuxWorld this week. Basing Gnome on the .NET APIs will cut development time significantly,
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02...e_to_be_based/

    You really have to wonder if KDE is really more windows like or if it's the other way around.

    Plus the shell gnome is moving to is crap.


    I'm also not having any issues at all with Kubuntu.
    Last edited by BigCityCat; January 2nd, 2010 at 05:01 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    Xubuntu is not what I meant when I talking about XFCE. I installed Xubuntu in a VirtualBox and it looked almost identical to Gnome. I simply install xfce4 from Synaptic and log in at the start.

    What is xfce lacking: KDE and Gnome have a million widgets and gadgets that do all sorts of things, like temperature monitor, CPU scaling and so on. thunar is faster than nautilus and dolphin, but doesn't seem to support tabs and/or split screen, furthermore, manually mounted ntfs drives do not show in the shortcut menus. XFCE lacks fancy composition effects and I have found no way to put different wallpapers on different desktops, AWN manager would also not work. The display settings detect only one monitor at a time and when I am connecting my laptop to an external monitor, I have to entirely rely on the function keys of the laptop. Those are just to name a few.

    XFCE is great, it is exactly what it should be: small and fast. But there is a price to pay and thus I do not consider XFCE a viable choice for "default" DE. For me, it is a necessary fast alternative.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Gnome dragging Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Miro View Post
    Xubuntu is not what I meant when I talking about XFCE. I installed Xubuntu in a VirtualBox and it looked almost identical to Gnome. I simply install xfce4 from Synaptic and log in at the start.

    What is xfce lacking: KDE and Gnome have a million widgets and gadgets that do all sorts of things, like temperature monitor, CPU scaling and so on. thunar is faster than nautilus and dolphin, but doesn't seem to support tabs and/or split screen, furthermore, manually mounted ntfs drives do not show in the shortcut menus. XFCE lacks fancy composition effects and I have found no way to put different wallpapers on different desktops, AWN manager would also not work. The display settings detect only one monitor at a time and when I am connecting my laptop to an external monitor, I have to entirely rely on the function keys of the laptop. Those are just to name a few.

    XFCE is great, it is exactly what it should be: small and fast. But there is a price to pay and thus I do not consider XFCE a viable choice for "default" DE. For me, it is a necessary fast alternative.
    http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/pan...sensors-plugin

    It does compositing (xfce settings manager-> window manager tweaks-> compositor).

    If you dont like thunar, use something else Its probably never going to support tabs, etc.

    Maybe you made a minor mistake in settings up AWN manager, Xfce is there in the AWN wiki-

    http://wiki.awn-project.org/FAQ

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