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Thread: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

  1. #11
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    "These are people elected by religious people "

    What?!?

    His views are probably the views of the majority. That is why the las was made in the first place. Aren't you being a little egocentric? Not everybody is a conservative christian. Obviously, many religious people feel okay with gay marriage. It's not like the church is being forced to perform these ceremonies.

  2. #12
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by CowPie
    I don't know. I feel that religion does have a role in it. These are people elected by religious people who say "screw the church"...it does't sit well with me, it seems like a man on a mission rather than a man representative of Canada.
    I don't know what possible role religion has. Sure, they dislike it, and think anyone who does it has, what was it, 'condemned their souls'. But, even if they're right, its not 'their' souls.
    Thats just want i think, and, naturally, anyone is entitled to their own view, but i strongly believe gay marriage should be allowed. Assuming of course they love one another, same with heterosexual marriage
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  3. #13
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    "would rather have a few thousand years of tradition behind me informing my thoughts "


    That one still gets me.

    I think for myself.

  4. #14
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Zundfolge
    We're going through similar silliness here in the States as well

    [Libertarian Rant]Same sex marriage, different sex marriage ... WTF does either of these have to do with National Defense, International Relations and Regulation of Interstate Commerce?

    Federal Government shouldn't even have the word marriage on any of its books ... its none of the fed.govs business, nor is it part of their realm of power as defined by the constitution (those three things in italics above are ALL the constitution gives the federal government power over).

    Furthermore, why should the state have anything to do with marriage (other then the simple enforcement of contract law).

    I'm straight, and married ... about 8 years ago I had to go down to the courthouse, pay a fee and beg permission from the state to "legally" marry my wife. What a crock ... as a freeman I shouldn't have to come groveling to the state and pay their extortion in order to be "allowed" the basic human right of marriage.


    No sir, As a Christian I don't believe homosexuality is moral, but by God it's none of the governments (or my) business if two men or two women want to make a lifelong commitment to each other.[/libertarian rant]
    I am also Libertarian (registered in fact). What you said is how I stand on the issue. The state has crossed it's boundrys in their involvement in marraige and in fact, in most areas of peoples private lives.

  5. #15
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    I think that anyone who wants to form a civil union should be able to, and anyone who wants to get married should be able to. Not that I would do this, but I think I should be able to marry a woman, or man if I were gay/bi, but live with my best friend since we were 2 in a civil union. Seriously.

    Basically, I think any minister should be able to marry any two (or three or four... ) people they religiously believe they can, and that the government should be required to give civil unions to whoever wants them, but that the two should stay separate. I don't think I should have to "file for divorce" because what the hell do lawyers and courts have to do with a religious institution? I've never understood that, and probably never will.

    But azz, man, you rock, you always say what needs to be said in the most concise and effective way possible

  6. #16
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    This can only lead to more:

    "not in my back yard"

    I'd like to see some beaureaucrat try to regulate me with my hand squeezing his neck.

    Naah - I'm hetero, married...and I disagree fundamentally with the title to this thread...not because I take a side in this same-sex issue or not...

    "Same-sex debate no place for religion" The stigma surrounding homosexuality (thereby same-sex marriage - I'll argue a previous posters symantics) is exactly related to religion.

    If there weren't so many zealots out there nobody would care.

    Do I need to remind anybody of the scourges leveled against humanity on global scales in the name of religion?

    No - this whole rediculous "issue" is by, because of, and promolgated by religion.

    Makes me sick.

  7. #17
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    I don't think I should have to "file for divorce" because what the hell do lawyers and courts have to do with a religious institution? I've never understood that, and probably never will.
    "divorce" is (or at least should be) nothing more then two parties seeking to revoke the terms of a contract.

    All a "marriage" is (in the secular sense) is a contract ... person A agrees with person B to "Love, Honor, Cherish, Obey in sickness and in health for better or for worse, forsaking all others, yadda yadda". So when two people enter into this contract and one party doesn't fulfill their end of the contract, or wishes to get out of the contract then thats what the courts are for.

    The proper role for the government in this whole Marriage issue is to allow the citizens to use its courts to sort out their differences...this is the essence of contract law.


    Now there is also a religious element to Marriage ... and that is the church wedding part, or the belief that "what God has brought together let no man tear asunder" or the bride's family owes the grooms family 30 goats or whatever ... that is NOT the realm of the government (and as such the government should not sanction or prosecute any church or clergyman who refuses to join people into Marriages because they are the same sex or they aren't members of that church or there are 3 of them or whatever, and believe me one of the major things driving Evangelical Christians in this whole "anti gay marriage" thing is that they fear that one day their pastor will be sued or charged with a "hate crime" for not agreeing to marry gays).


    Regardless of the issue, 99 times out of 100 things would be better if nosey bureaucrats would just go away and leave us alone.

  8. #18
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    Regardless of the issue, 99 times out of 100 things would be better if nosey bureaucrats would just go away and leave us alone.
    Then they might be out of a job.

    Passing laws that pander to public opinion (the vocal minority) or lobby groups is a lot easier than working to make laws & government function in a way that actually objectively improves the lives of those they represent.

    [RANT]
    The ultimate goal of most people who hold public office is to keep their jobs & improve their own lot in life & not 'make the world a better place'.

    All of the various religions & their value systems have no place in government. What's right & wrong in the legal sense should be as objective as possible & not swayed by the personal ethics (or lack thereof) of those passing laws.

    People always like to talk about 'rights', but if you follow the actions of various elected lawmakers you might start to wonder if they actually know what the word means. Or come to realize that it's not something they care about.
    [/RANT]
    Last edited by Dylanby; January 29th, 2005 at 08:16 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    Please don't turn this place into another forums.gentoo.org - there are places to debate relgion and politics, please don't make this one of them.

  10. #20
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    Re: "Same-sex debate no place for religion" Canada

    This is an off-topic section of the forums, so anything goes as long as it doesn't violate any laws or forum rules.

    I personally love getting to know people on different forums through topics like these.

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