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Thread: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

  1. #121
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9 View Post
    You can blame the users for ignorance, but is that really improving Ubuntu? I thought we were about ease of use? Update Manager is supposed to be an end-user, easy-to-use utility. It SHOULD NOT screw things up.
    And does not, in stable releases, which end users use, as has been said many times in this thread.

  2. #122
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9 View Post
    You can blame the users for ignorance, but is that really improving Ubuntu? I thought we were about ease of use? Update Manager is supposed to be an end-user, easy-to-use utility. It SHOULD NOT screw things up.
    I don't see any complaints coming from seasoned users.As far as Ubuntu being ease of use, that's an individual viewpoint. As has been stated many times, "TESTING is not for the faint of heart" or for those lacing experience.
    boot_info_script | AMD64 Athlon X2 Dual-Core - nVidia Geforce 6150 SE - 4GB DDR3

  3. #123
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by linusr View Post
    how smooth is upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 going to me? I guez it can't be trusted 100%!!

    so ppl end up doing fresh install every 6 months?

    No, when upgrading distributions, and the Partial Ungrade notification pops up, the proper procedure to follow is this:

    1) Click cancel. Perform a regular update of your packages, and reboot.
    2) Run Upgrade Manager again, this time say OK to a Partial Upgrade.

    That is, however, if you *want* to do a partial upgrade (which is the name for an upgrade that also *removes* certain, obsolete or superseded packages). It can create problems on occasion, but shouldn't for non-development users that haven't been doing too much amateur surgery on the innards of their operating system.

    In case you end up with a broken system anyway, keep a stable version live-cd handy.

    Happy upgrading, folks!

  4. #124
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by VMC View Post
    I don't see any complaints coming from seasoned users.As far as Ubuntu being ease of use, that's an individual viewpoint. As has been stated many times, "TESTING is not for the faint of heart" or for those lacing experience.
    I'm a seasoned user of Linux, have been for well over a decade. And I'm complaining. Now, am I willing to deal with the issues? Yes. I reinstall all the time, tweak, etc. But my point still stands. We need more information presented when the dialog pops up. You can't assume that everyone knows, even seasoned users, what that button will do.

    Side note: what kind of "seasoned" vs. "non-seasoned" kind of comment is that? We should be thinking about all users, not the attitude that non-seasoned users should be left in the dust.

  5. #125
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9 View Post
    I'm a seasoned user of Linux, have been for well over a decade. And I'm complaining. Now, am I willing to deal with the issues? Yes. I reinstall all the time, tweak, etc. But my point still stands. We need more information presented when the dialog pops up. You can't assume that everyone knows, even seasoned users, what that button will do.

    I agree. I'm kind of a linux newbie, but I'm not new to computers and their innards, and first time I got the "PU" dialog, I was stumped, but asked it to perform a PU anyway out of ignorance. Fortunately, the PU only wrecked my system once (which was the upgrade from alpha 4 to a5 or KK.)

  6. #126
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    Ubuntu Karmic Koala (testing)

    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    When I installed the Beta (about 4-5 days ago) I also saw the popup about partial upgrade. And ofcourse I didn't know what was that about so I accepted it. At least nothing broke after that
    || Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook S7110 | Genuine Intel CPU T2500 @ 2GHz | 80GB HDD | 3GB DDR2 | Intel Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express | 2.6.31-14-generic (Karmic Koala) ||

  7. #127
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9 View Post
    I'm a seasoned user of Linux, have been for well over a decade. And I'm complaining. Now, am I willing to deal with the issues? Yes. I reinstall all the time, tweak, etc. But my point still stands. We need more information presented when the dialog pops up. You can't assume that everyone knows, even seasoned users, what that button will do.

    Side note: what kind of "seasoned" vs. "non-seasoned" kind of comment is that? We should be thinking about all users, not the attitude that non-seasoned users should be left in the dust.
    23meg painstakingly explained what to do !!!
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  8. #128
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9
    We need more information presented when the dialog pops up. You can't assume that everyone knows, even seasoned users, what that button will do.
    No, we need to entirely redesign the way the "Partial Upgrade" is presented to the user, and that includes changing the name "Partial Upgrade" itself. "More information" is not a cure. If we bombard people with information at a time when they're trying to get a tedious piece of computer maintenance work like software updates done, that information will be ignored by the majority. And if we're talking about more information regarding the "Partial Upgrade", it's entirely unneeded in a stable release.

    To recap:

    • People using stable releases, regardless of whether they're "seasoned" users or not, are not affected by the horrors of the "Partial Upgrade", since Update Manager will not offer it in stable releases unless things are wildly broken

    • People running the development branch with an understanding of what they're doing, and basic knowlegde of where to find out information regarding how updates work in the development phase will, at worst, wreck their installation once, and be unaffected in the future

    • People running the development branch with little or no understanding of how the essentials work, and why they work the way they do, will soon run into other kinds of trouble than the "Partial Upgrade" phenomenon anyway, and will not be able to contribute anything substantial to quality assurance, since they'll keep messing up their installations, contaminating them with unofficial libraries and hacks, rendering them useless for any serious testing, etc.


    As should be obvious, we only need to get better at working with the third group of people.
    Last edited by 23meg; October 22nd, 2009 at 06:25 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Thanks for the info 23meg, makes it easier to understand and clear.

  10. #130
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    Re: Update Manager Offers a "Partial Upgrade"? Read This.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipper9 View Post
    Depends on what kind of user you are. Some people want a stable system, and don't care about new features. Some people want the latest and greatest, but want stability. Some people are crazy (like me) and want the freshest crack that the developers are pushing.

    For example, I want the latest OpenOffice that will allow me to want to leave Microsoft Office 2007. I want something easy to use, that doesn't keep popping up toolbars, can read MS documents without formatting issues, and looks good on a netbook screen.

    Another example, I want the latest Firefox. I want the latest wine to see if I can get Windows Live Sync to finally work. I want something that can sync my iPhone.

    Finally, once I get an email program that can support Microsoft Exchange 5.5 (2007), I can finally delete my Windows install once and for all.

    For that reason, I upgrade all the time. Sometimes I get totally frustrated with Linux and it's inability to do the above, run back to Windows for awhile, then come back when Ubuntu comes out with the latest upgrade and try again. With Jaunty, I got such bad video performance I wanted to stay with Ubuntu, but ran back to Windows. With Karmic, things are so great I think I'm going to finally stay and use dual-boot with Windows 7 until the time I can finally delete Windows.
    Did you, by any chance, glance at my sig? I actually do use Hardy as my "business" OS. Jaunty (actually Stoner Edition 1.0) is the one I use the most.

    The thing that linuser was implying was that you need to upgrade every six months.

    All I was saying is that you do not need to at all. Use a LTS release.

    As you point out, there are some of us that are a little out there.

    There is a limit on the size of your sig on these forums, by the way. Mine, for instance, does give a pretty good idea of my box but not much of a hint as to the 30 OS' on various drives, none of which is WinWhatever or Hackintosh.

    I prefer Ubuntu although Debian (particularly the respin PhatDebian that runs 2.6.30) is a close 2nd. Mandriva is real nice too, particularly the 2009-1 or "spring" (Live DVD download and you can choose Gnome, KDE, Lxde or all three to install) is pretty cool.
    Dell 480 XPS 3G ram Quad Core 2.40GHz, Radeon HD 2400 PRO, Audigy1, 3x320G HDD, 320G External, Debian Testing for use, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian Sid for FUN

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