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Thread: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

  1. #21
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyporeal View Post
    So what? It's a valid, legal use of the code. The people who wrote the code gave their permission for anyone to wrap it in the GPL. Why would anyone have scruples about complying with the authors' explicit wishes? If you really support the BSD license then you have no right to be bitter when people fully take advantage of it.
    +Approximately 1 gillion

    People who support the BSD licence but then complain about GPL projects taking the code are essentially undermining their own arguments for the BSD licence. Sure it's all very well saying "well people with any moral principles wouldn't just take and not give back"...well hello! That's what the GPL and other copylefts were created for. The BSD licence explicitly allows this behaviour, and was surely to be expected at some point in a successful project's life.

  2. #22
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyporeal View Post
    So what? It's a valid, legal use of the code. The people who wrote the code gave their permission for anyone to wrap it in the GPL. Why would anyone have scruples about complying with the authors' explicit wishes? If you really support the BSD license then you have no right to be bitter when people fully take advantage of it.
    Thanks, this proves my point exactly. The BSD license permits people to reuse the code as they wish. what they do with it is up to them, and to how they are willing for everyone to remain friends. Linux people say that this will permit companies to reuse it in proprietary software. That's true, but they're no better.
    「明後日の夕方には帰ってるからね。」


  3. #23
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozor Mox View Post
    Sure it's all very well saying "well people with any moral principles wouldn't just take and not give back"...well hello! That's what the GPL and other copylefts were created for.
    No. The GPL was created to force people to give back. The BSD license allows everyone to act according to his moral principles. And what do we see? That Linux peple, who are always bragging about how they're so much better in that regard than everyone else, do in fact have none, which is kind of ironic. That's all. No bitterness, it only proves that Linux people only care about themselves.
    Last edited by Bachstelze; August 20th, 2009 at 03:49 PM.
    「明後日の夕方には帰ってるからね。」


  4. #24
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by HymnToLife View Post
    Thanks, this proves my point exactly. The BSD license permits people to reuse the code as they wish. what they do with it is up to them, and to how they are willing for everyone to remain friends. Linux people say that this will permit companies to reuse it in proprietary software. That's true, but they're no better.
    It does not permit people to use it as they wish. The code is still covered by the BSD license and must therefor be accompanied with a BSD license. So you can have a GPL project which re-uses BSD code, but you must retain the BSD license and people can use the BSD licensed code without having to give back to the GPL project.

    Using the BSD code without mentioning that the code is BSD is not allowed by the BSD license.
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  5. #25
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by slakkie View Post
    It does not permit people to use it as they wish. The code is still covered by the BSD license and must therefor be accompanied with a BSD license. So you can have a GPL project which re-uses BSD code, but you must retain the BSD license and people can use the BSD licensed code without having to give back to the GPL project.

    Using the BSD code without mentioning that the code is BSD is not allowed by the BSD license.
    Right. By "as they wish", I meant "doing a modified version and releasing it under any license they wish". Of course they would have to keep the text of the BSD license, but the modified work would be under their license of choice. To get the original BSD code, one would have to get it from the original BSD project.
    「明後日の夕方には帰ってるからね。」


  6. #26
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    Exclamation Be Respectful

    Quote Originally Posted by HymnToLife View Post
    Linux people only care about themselves.
    See post #1:
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin Guy View Post
    Please be respectful of others opinions:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozor Mox View Post
    I guess I just find it astonishing that you can say people who licence their work under the GPL are being "selfish". These people owe you nothing. You owe them something for making their software open source in my opinion. At the very least a cool, frosty beer if you use their project

  7. #27
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    The Apple (Darwin) Kernel is released open-source so that it gets the advantages of an open-source security model. If code were never contributed back then you would kind of get the Cedega of Wine. There would be no incentive to contribute code back, and Linux would lose commercial support provided by companies like Red Hat and Novell. Commercial organisations would just fork the codebase and make their own version of Linux. And they probably wouldn't make it open-source, because then another commercial organisation would take their investment.
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Let's say you have two projects, one under the GPL and one under the BSD license. They each are working on related things and want to incorporate parts of each others code into their project. The person working on the GPL project can freely take the other projects code and incorporate it into his GPL project. But the person working on the BSD project cannot just use the GPLed code in his project as it would violate the GPL. So how can you say that the GPL is about freedom?

    The GPL is a pragmatic license and it works well for many projects including the kernel. But don't pretend that it is all about freedom because it's not.

    The GPL I think is overused just because it's what the kernel and GNU use.

  9. #29
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simian Man View Post
    Let's say you have two projects, one under the GPL and one under the BSD license. They each are working on related things and want to incorporate parts of each others code into their project. The person working on the GPL project can freely take the other projects code and incorporate it into his GPL project. But the person working on the BSD project cannot just use the GPLed code in his project as it would violate the GPL.
    Exactly. So if the people working on the GPL project really wanted for everyone to remain friends and to cooperate, they would at least, when taking code from the BSD projects, release their modifications under the BSD license (as RMS himself recommends), so they can be incorporated back in the original project.

    But apparently, if they don't, that's fine. Why? Because they can. Well, I could ban Hyporeal and Ozor Mox from these forums, too. Why? Because I can. How good does that sound?
    「明後日の夕方には帰ってるからね。」


  10. #30
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    Re: So, why Don't we Give Microsoft our Code?

    Quote Originally Posted by HymnToLife View Post
    Right. By "as they wish", I meant "doing a modified version and releasing it under any license they wish". Of course they would have to keep the text of the BSD license, but the modified work would be under their license of choice. To get the original BSD code, one would have to get it from the original BSD project.
    True, although I would expect that the modification will find its way back to the original project in case someone uses it in a GPL project. It would strike me as odd if someone uses BSD code and doesn't give it back, while he enforces others to give back to his project due to GPL. But he doesn't have to, that is right.
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