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Thread: Upgrade vs Reinstall

  1. #1
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    Upgrade vs Reinstall

    From another thread, where I made my initial rant, but I think it deserves its own thread..

    Why are people advising fresh installs over upgrading?

    I have been upgrading all my Ubuntu PC's from version 5 (when I started with Ubuntu). I've had one problem when upgrading from 8.04 to 8.10 on the day 8.10 got released. Reinstalled 8.04 (who needs backup eh?!) a couple of days later. It was an Intel driver issue in xorg, pretty crucial on a desktop. But I would have had that problem even if I did a fresh install. Which is mostly the argument to do a fresh install, otherwise you'll end up with problems..

    If I would have done that upgrade now I would not have any problems. I would probably, no, I know I would have upgraded directly to the latest stable version to see if the bug got fixed, which would have been the case..

    Maybe it is me, I don't like to reinstall because it is so the #1 bug to do. Or is it because a reinstall... an upgrade is so much more logical to do, if your release is supported you can upgrade to a current release use that one for a while and upgrade later on.

    If you have an EOL release, I can maybe understand it a bit better, but even then, it is possible to upgrade without too much of a problem to a current release.

    So, it is just me who thinks we should not advise reinstalls when an upgrade does the same or should the community activly support fresh installs because that is just easier or less error prone..?


    Ps. If this is in a wrong forum, you can move it, didn't know where to put it, installs and upgrades, community cafe or here..
    Upgrade Ubuntu | Upgrade unsupported Ubuntu versions | Always backup | Howto upgrade flash
    Minimal CD install | Remove old kernels | My blog | Linux user #462801 | Conscience doth make cowards of us all. -- Shakespeare

  2. #2
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    I think it is just a personal decision. But, if you look around the forums, you will see a lot of people that have had problems after upgrading, such as sound no longer works, screwed up video drivers, etc.

    I personally, refuse to upgrade and always do fresh installs. Besides, upgrades actually take longer than fresh installs for most people. It only takes me 7 or 8 minutes to do the base install, (yes, I have a very fast computer) and another 45 min. or so to get back all my apps that I use. Being that quick, why would I want to spend several hours upgrading and then take a chance that something may not work right? Plus, I keep all personal files on separate drives, so I don't need to worry about backing up and restoring those.

    If you have no problems upgrading, that is fine if that is what you prefer, but I could not stand it, knowing there may be left over cruft and configuration files that may not play nice with the new OS.

    Also, it is a well known fact that fresh installs are usually more problem free. (I have my own pc repair business, and know these things ) I know 3 people personally that upgraded their ubuntu machines and later regretted it, and wound up doing a fresh install anyway. I'm not saying that upgrading will always lead to problems, but there is less likliehood of problems with a fresh install.

    Like I said, it is more of a personal choice than anything else. Good luck with your upgrades in the future.
    Last edited by HappyFeet; August 3rd, 2009 at 07:04 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    I think it is better to do a clean install and start again, personally, particularly if there are a lot of third party repositories used by the system. If you use only applications that are from the ubuntu repos I suspect it is probably easier to upgrade, but if you have added various ppa repos and maybe wine and medibuntu and others you are probably in for a disappointment.

    Also even on my comparatively slow computer compared to HappyFeet's, I can download the new iso in about 20 mins, install in another 20 mins and add all my extras in about an hour at most, so an upgrade is much slower and I can't do anything while it happens.

  4. #4
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    HappyFeet
    Like I said, it is more of a personal choice than anything else.
    I've had a number of individuals (I've assisted with the installation of Ubuntu) upgrade (online) and none have complained to me that they've had any issues with upgrading. I'm certain they would have notified me immediately.

    I can visualize issues and objections to both options. For example, I had 8.04 disk (that I used religiously and protected) that apparently failed with age. You can imagine the outcome (without detail) of the next install. I immediately grabbed a new disk and the reinstalled went smoothly. I also know users that have poor net connects that literally prohibit online upgrading or even downloading of the new version file, without temping fate.

    So, I must agree with HappyFeet.

    Just seems logical to use what works - until it doesn't, then select a different option. Isn't choice a wonderful thing?
    "All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward."
    Ellen Glasgow

  5. #5
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyFeet View Post
    I think it is just a personal decision. But, if you look around the forums, you will see a lot of people that have had problems after upgrading, such as sound no longer works, screwed up video drivers, etc.
    The forums are being used more by people who have problems then by people who do not need to ask a question. So based on only forum results you can only say that a particular percentage of people have problems with some upgrades of Ubuntu. People who have succesfully upgraded are generally not heard on the forums (or irc/maillinglists).

    I personally, refuse to upgrade and always do fresh installs. Besides, upgrades actually take longer than fresh installs for most people. It only takes me 7 or 8 minutes to do the base install, (yes, I have a very fast computer) and another 45 min. or so to get back all my apps that I use. Being that quick, why would I want to spend several hours upgrading and then take a chance that something may not work right? Plus, I keep all personal files on separate drives, so I don't need to worry about backing up and restoring those.
    An upgrade doesn't take that long, you forget that you need to download the ISO, and the upgrade process first has to download all packages, which takes just as long as downloading the ISO. Then you need to burn the ISO. I think, from start to finish the upgrade takes just as long as a fresh install, with the added benefit of not losing your configuration of /etc. And no afterwork of adding packages which the default install does not provide, but you needed.

    If you have no problems upgrading, that is fine if that is what you prefer, but I could not stand it, knowing there may be left over cruft and configuration files that may not play nice with the new OS.
    Have you ever tried to upgrade? I'm just asking since you refuse to upgrade and always do fresh installs.. You can purge removed packages.. Removing their config files, and I don't think packages will use eachother configuration files.

    Also, it is a well known fact that fresh installs are usually more problem free. (I have my own pc repair business, and know these things ) I know 3 people personally that upgraded their ubuntu machines and later regretted it, and wound up doing a fresh install anyway. I'm not saying that upgrading will always lead to problems, but there is less likliehood of problems with a fresh install.
    Maybe, but I think fresh installs are just as likely to cause problems. If a certain package causes problems it does not matter wheter that package is installed by the upgrade or the fresh install.

    Like I said, it is more of a personal choice than anything else. Good luck with your upgrades in the future.
    It is a way of working, but I saw in a thread where someone asked questions about an upgrade got a whole bunch of replies to do a fresh install, without any argumentation. I don't think that is a propper way to help people.
    Upgrade Ubuntu | Upgrade unsupported Ubuntu versions | Always backup | Howto upgrade flash
    Minimal CD install | Remove old kernels | My blog | Linux user #462801 | Conscience doth make cowards of us all. -- Shakespeare

  6. #6
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    Bottom line is to do what you want.

    You asked for opinions, and I gave you mine. I'm not going to argue about it or give any more reasons why you should or should not do it. Take care and good luck.

  7. #7
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    It is a discussion forum. I just had some remarks on your reply. I'm not saying NEVER reinstall.
    Upgrade Ubuntu | Upgrade unsupported Ubuntu versions | Always backup | Howto upgrade flash
    Minimal CD install | Remove old kernels | My blog | Linux user #462801 | Conscience doth make cowards of us all. -- Shakespeare

  8. #8
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    I think the "upgrades don't work properly" anecdotes mostly come from new users, who have messed around with their systems so much that they don't work in the Ubuntu-approved way.

    For instance, if you install graphics card drivers manually, then try to dist-upgrade, there will be a driver/kernel mismatch. New users might not realise that they just need to reinstall their driver, and think that "the upgrade didn't work".

    Other problems could arise from the semi-intelligence that the Update Manager has, that performs certain system operations over and above what the packages themselves define. If you've already done something that will conflict with what the Update Manager will do, then you will run into troubles.

    I've dist-upgraded a number of times and never had any real issues. If you want to start afresh, or you want to make sure you're getting everything that's available in a new Ubuntu install, then do a fresh install by all means. My last dist-upgrade was missing notify-osd and the New Wave theme.
    Last edited by 3rdalbum; August 4th, 2009 at 12:00 PM.
    I try to treat the cause, not the symptom. I avoid the terminal in instructions, unless it's easier or necessary. My instructions will work within the Ubuntu system, instead of breaking or subverting it. Those are the three guarantees to the helpee.

  9. #9
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    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdalbum View Post
    For instance, if you install graphics card drivers manually, then try to dist-upgrade, there will be a driver/kernel mismatch. New users might not realise that they just need to reinstall their driver, and think that "the upgrade didn't work".
    QFT! I'm doing this, because the recommended driver doesn't work; a bit frustrating having to reinstall it all the time, but at least I get a really up-to-date system (and no, I've never had any problems upgrading Ubuntu or the proprietary NVIDIA driver).

  10. #10

    Re: Upgrade vs Reinstall

    Moved to Recurring Discussions as this is not a new question.
    Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence. Abigail Adams ( 1744 - 1818 ), 1780;

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