Problem with the new "Star Trek" movie SPOILER WARNING

[bobbob1016]

If you haven't seen the movie yet, DO NOT READ FURTHER.
If you don't want to read a nerd's rant about said movie which goes on much longer than it should DO NOT READ FURTHER.



If you want to laugh, or *politely* point out an error I made (except for the shorthand I used to refer to time periods, which I know aren't exact), feel free to do so.























I want to start by saying, the movie was great, as it's own movie, not as Trek 11. I did after Duncan took Connor's head in Highlander Endgame, and this movie did the same thing. After the ending, I realized, there is no way that Nemoy could be "our" Spock. There are 4 time periods that this movie messed up. Kirk is 2260 (not exactly, roughly), Picard is 2360 (for simplicity's sake), Cochran is 2060 (again simplicity), and Archer is 2160 (same simplicity).

I also want to say, and you can only take me at my word for this, I realized this as I was leaving the theatre, and this is not something I have spent a lot of time thinking through, or searching for. I did not spend more time on this than it took me to type this. I noticed the "more temporal issues" as I was typing this.



Now, the movie altered everything from 2260 onward. Lets call this 2260'. If this is so, all the time travel in Sci-Fi states that everything would happen differently in 2360, making 2360'.

Now, lets say Picard (roughly the 2360' period) is still born, and still captain and everything. In "First Contact", the 8th movie, Picard goes back in time and changes 2060 a little, although it can be argued that this trip is along the lines of Back to the Future 2 when Doc Brown hands his past self the correct wrench. Meaning Picard's 2360->2060 trip didn't alter anything, because it has already happened. However, when Picard' changes 2060, he'd change it slightly differently this time around, causing 2060'. Which in turn causes 2160'.

2160' would directly change the one episode where Archer goes back to Earth to capture some of the borg left on earth from "First Contact".

There are two options, either "First Contact" borg are there or aren't. If they are, the episode continues as it did closer to 2160. If there aren't borg left, any number of things could happen, making the difference between 2160' and 2160 bigger. Either option would mean 2260' happens differently, causing 2260'', causing 2360'', causing 2060'', and so on.

Since this would be a never-ending timeloop, to anyone affected by Earth, or the Federation, in any remote way, it could be safely presumed that Nemoy in the new movie is playing a different Spock where there was no "First Contact" movie. Meaning time from 2060 onward is not the same Star Trek universe.

There are more temporal issues raised in this movie:
1) Archer's borg phone home and they say since it'll take 200 years to get to the rest of the borg, they just postponed the invasion.

2) During the Xindi arc, Archer goes back to more or less now, 2000's and does stuff. This means he has a loop to our time, which would make 2000'.

3) Where the hell were the "temporal police" that are throughout later Star Treks. As in the one at the end of the third season of Voyager that causes his own time paradox, and then comes and takes them back to their previous time and space to keep the timelines in sync.

4) Because of the Voyager loop above (#3), which causes the computer boom of the modern day as stated in the episode, 2360' would again cause 1960' (since that is when the guy got the future technology).


And there are two one line to fix issues too. Scotty (Simon Pegg) says he was put on that planet for beaming captain Archer's beagle. The one he had 100 years before presumably, unless they simply said "Well, his nth beagle". Also, Nemoy says he learned to cheat from Kirk. The implication is he learned to cheat after he saw that Kirk cheated on the battle simulation, although I could've gotten the wrong implication.


Sorry for the long nerdy post, just had to vent, and thought that if anyone would understand all of the things I saw wrong with the movie, it'd someone here.

[Firestem4]

I thought he was talking about his teacher, not Cpt. Archer..maybe the names soudned familiar.

Other than that I do agree with you that the movie screwed over the Star Trek timeline, BIG TIME. It should not be considered Canon at this point.

My only major problem was that in the beginning of the film when Kirk rode up to the shuttle-takeoff area, the Starship in the background was in fact the Enterprise...But wasn't the Enterprise in Drydock? Which is Utopia Planitia...in space?

[bobbob1016]

I thought he was talking about his teacher, not Cpt. Archer..maybe the names soudned familiar.

Other than that I do agree with you that the movie screwed over the Star Trek timeline, BIG TIME. It should not be considered Canon at this point.

My only major problem was that in the beginning of the film when Kirk rode up to the shuttle-takeoff area, the Starship in the background was in fact the Enterprise...But wasn't the Enterprise in Drydock? Which is Utopia Planitia...in space?

I'm not sure about the Drydock thing. But what I realized is that not only *should* the movie not be considered Canon, it actually can't be considered Canon.

[Sublime Porte]

Whilst the movie was fairly well made, and entertaining, I really wouldn't consider it to be a serious Star Trek movie. It was designed to appeal to today's teenagers, so the sound track was probably far higher up on the list of priorities than maintaining timelines.

[SLEEPER_V]

maybe i totally missed it, but technically, wouldnt changing the timeline only create a divergent timeline rather than affect the original one? In theory. We are assuming that there is only one solid timeline rather than the fluid outlook.

[bobbob1016]

Whilst the movie was fairly well made, and entertaining, I really wouldn't consider it to be a serious Star Trek movie. It was designed to appeal to today's teenagers, so the sound track was probably far higher up on the list of priorities than maintaining timelines.

I know they weren't leaving the timeline for sake of today's teenagers. I was just giving us plausable denibility, and a way we can simply say, to quote the trailer, "It ISN'T our father's Star Trek".

I still think it was a great movie itself though, would've been better sans the Star Trek stuff, which could've been removed easily.

[Sublime Porte]

maybe i totally missed it, but technically, wouldnt changing the timeline only create a divergent timeline rather than affect the original one? In theory. We are assuming that there is only one solid timeline rather than the fluid outlook.

Well that's a possibility, but the problem is that in so many other timeline-affecting episodes, it DID affect the "mainstream" timeline.

[lisati]

Should Doc Brown go back and prevent Marty and his former self saving Clara from Clayton Ravine? (BTTF III)

Maybe all will be revealed in a future Star Trek movie, where something resembling the timeline we know and love will be reinstated....

(And no, I haven't seen the movie yet)

[Keithhed]

Timelines a tangled mess...
I enjoy the movie as a one-off. Its good but I dont consider it Cannon to the Star Trek universe.

[bobbob1016]

Should Doc Brown go back and prevent Marty and his former self saving Clara from Clayton Ravine? (BTTF III)

Maybe all will be revealed in a future Star Trek movie, where something resembling the timeline we know and love will be reinstated....

(And no, I haven't seen the movie yet)

The only way to fix it is to undo this, and any following movies. Or they could say it's a tangent universe, happening alongside our Trek.