Is empathy ready to replace pidgin

**meborc** · June 16th, 2009

Originally Posted by taavikko

...
Empathy offers far more potential than pidgin all-around.
giving it enough time to fully evolve.

again... you say it yourself: "...giving it enough time to fully evolve..."

this is the point... it is not ready NOW to replace pidgin.. maybe in the future, but not NOW

**Swarms** · June 16th, 2009

Originally Posted by rhunwicks

In Jaunty, Empathy doesn't use the Gnome system Proxy Settings and has no facility to set a Network Proxy in its own preferences - see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...hy/+bug/304889.

I don't think Empathy is suitable to replace Pidgin until this bug has been fixed, as it looks like a major regression to anyone installing Ubuntu on new PCs behind a corporate firewall.

Once it is fixed, I think Empathy is the way to go.

Roger

Details...

**teddks** · June 16th, 2009

There's still no support for OTR encryption in Empathy, is there?

One of the reasons I recommend Ubuntu to new users is that it is secure by default. There aren't any open services, it has AppArmor and SSP by default, and it integrates great with crypto. The default email and IM clients both have support for strong crypto, setting up an encrypted filesystem is easy, gpg is installed by default, etc..

The way I see it, if Empathy becomes the default client, we are moving from a program that allows users their privacy to one that does not. By extension, as a distribution, Ubuntu is moving away from its commitment to security.

I've gotten a lot of people started on Ubuntu, and I've never had any complaints about Pidgin. Not only is it easy to use for "new users" (I don't know what could be easier), they can set up strong crypto with one click, making Pidgin-OTR the easiest security "papercut", if you will, to patch. Taking Pidgin out of the default install will (likely) mean taking the pidgin-otr package out of the default install, and since it isn't in Pidgin's depends, that will mean new users who want security will have to go into Synaptic or the command line to get it installed.

We are making a key security feature move from one click away to two installations away. Is that really acceptable?

**DPic** · June 16th, 2009

http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/06...or-karmic.html

We should include Empathy in Karmic or Karmic +1 and we should make andannounce the decision of which now.

If we donot include Empathy in Karmic, but plan on including it in Karmic +1 (and announce this)it will still give Empathy the attention it needs from developers to fix the bugs that would be considered regressions during the switch without actually replacing Pidgin before they're fixed.

On the other hand, it might still be preferable to include Empathy in Karmic to have more of a guarantee that bugs will be fixed in time for the 10.04 LTS release and many of the existing bugs could be fixed before the final release of Karmic. As someone commented on my last post:

Empathy has been the top active project in Gnome for the last few weeks, with about 100 commits a week on average. The pace of development is astounding. Once the move to Empathy is the default, Ubuntu can start depending on it for other applications' communication needs (using Tubes). Gnome Games are getting Tubes support. Vino just got Tubes support, meaning that you can share your desktop with your contacts in Empathy.
I understand why 8.04 didn't ship with Empathy, but the change needs to happen. Empathy is 95% there. The needed changes can be made before Karmic if Ubuntu (and Canonical) commits to it. If 9.10 ships with Empathy, all the major bugs will be worked out by 10.04. Who wants to add yet ANOTHER new technology to another LTS.

So whether we include it in Karmic, or we hold off until the LTS, let's make and announce the decision now.

**yelo3** · June 16th, 2009

In fact the problem is not empathy, it's telepathy, which is not so active in all protocols

**sabre2th** · June 16th, 2009

Originally Posted by DPic

On the other hand, it might still be preferable to include Empathy in Karmic to have more of a guarantee that bugs will be fixed in time for the 10.04 LTS release and many of the existing bugs could be fixed before the final release of Karmic. As someone commented on my last post:

So whether we include it in Karmic, or we hold off until the LTS, let's make and announce the decision now.

I'd like to see some guarantee that Empathy does everything correctly before any decision is made.

Originally Posted by taavikko

Pidgin/Empathy is nothing more than multiprotocol IM client, doesn't matter if 10 or 10k users.

Empathy is integrated to gnome, so would say it integrates far better than pidgin to any desktop distro that uses Gnome.

Most users don't care about that. Typical users need a straightforward, easy solution and Pidgin provides that. It's friendly and all the basic functionality works very well. Reading through this thread, all I've really seen is this:

Originally Posted by taavikko

Empathy offers far more potential than pidgin all-around.
giving it enough time to fully evolve.

Potential is great, but it's not the same as being good. When all of these bug fixes and features are completed, it'll be worth a look.

Until someone can produce a clear list of reasons why Empathy has to replace Pidgin (ie. Broken/missing functionality in Pidgin or significant improvements in usability), this is all a waste of time. A working program should not be replaced because another program is POTENTIALLY better.

**castrojo** · June 16th, 2009

Originally Posted by DPic

We should include Empathy in Karmic or Karmic +1 and we should make andannounce the decision of which now.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/...ationSelection

The decision was made at UDS, so unless there's something seriously broken it will probably be the default. Note that pidgin will remain in main for at least another cycle, and that people who upgrade will keep pidgin, but new installs will get empathy.

**castrojo** · June 16th, 2009

Originally Posted by sabre2th

I'd like to see some guarantee that Empathy does everything correctly before any decision is made.

If that were a rule then we'd never ship any software.

Until someone can produce a clear list of reasons why Empathy has to replace Pidgin (ie. Broken/missing functionality in Pidgin or significant improvements in usability), this is all a waste of time. A working program should not be replaced because another program is POTENTIALLY better.

Ubuntu needs working video conferencing in order to compete with other operating systems. Empathy has some rough edges sure, but they are being /quickly/ fixed, which is why we're asking people to participate in the hug day.