Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 35

Thread: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Beans
    1,031

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Distro does new work..in this case on notifications.

    Unsurprisingly distro makes changes to some upstream code to support new system.

    Distro provides easy way to load system without the new bits so that people can check that apps behave well with both the old and new systems.

    Man on internet gets on high horse and starts a ******* contest...desperately trying to make a fire he can then put out.

    This is the open source model, you fork, change and then submit anything to upstream where they decide if they like it. The fact that they are doing there best to make sure that people can maintain sideways compatability with vanilla gnome is a good thing for other distributions, not a bad one.

    Total over reaction to a complete none event, sorry

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Beans
    67
    Distro
    Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Quote Originally Posted by issih View Post
    Distro does new work..in this case on notifications.

    Unsurprisingly distro makes changes to some upstream code to support new system.

    Distro provides easy way to load system without the new bits so that people can check that apps behave well with both the old and new systems.

    Man on internet gets on high horse and starts a ******* contest...desperately trying to make a fire he can then put out.

    This is the open source model, you fork, change and then submit anything to upstream where they decide if they like it. The fact that they are doing there best to make sure that people can maintain sideways compatability with vanilla gnome is a good thing for other distributions, not a bad one.

    Total over reaction to a complete none event, sorry
    +1

    Normally people are complaining that Ubuntu doesn't send enough upstream? Don't complain when they do!


    Also, Gnome doesn't just accept any code people send it. In fact, Gnome are well-known for rejecting perfectly good code just because they don't know the person who sent it.

    If Gnome accepted it, there must be a good reason.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Beans
    1,532

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    The point is that Ubuntu, or any other distro for that matter, shouldn't be tampering with the underlying mechanics of upstream packages like this. Adding apps like "Restricted Drivers" or "Add/Remove" to enhance the experience is OK, but fundamentally changing Gnome is not cool. Another reason Ubuntu has jumped the shark.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    So basically the guy has no idea what the session selector is for and has a vendetta against Ubuntu. He enacts this vendetta with complete dishonesty. He appears to be entirely clueless.

    See, if he'd done a minute of research, he would have found the following:

    • notify-osd can be installed and used in any distro. It uses the magic of dbus (which anyone who writes about technical Linux stuff should know by now) to be implemented alongside the existing notification-daemon.
    • bug #346159 appears to be invalid, (and marked as such) and at any rate cannot be reproduced on my system.
    • the standard GNOME session is not "layers of crap," and with Debian things are not installed when they already exist. He's basically pulling that sentiment out of nowhere. For me, gnome-stracciatella-session is 65.5kb and requires no dependencies beyond what I already have.
    • notify-osd follows the desktop notification specification. We are fixing applications that do not and we are providing patches upstream (or at least in easily found places downstream). Naturally, the patches are applied downstream because we can't wait. Fixing these offending applications - especially the GNOME ones - will provide other distros with more powerful flexibility in how they present notifications.
      The upstream GNOME functionality was (and is) broken because notifications were not acting like notifications, and many applications were not presenting notifications with enough flexibility to support methods other than the glorified dialog box (notification-daemon). This is about fixing bugs, and we start in one distro to avoid the creation of widespread panic -- coincidentally, exactly what this FUD-spewing blog poster is trying to create anyway.
    Last edited by Mr. Picklesworth; March 25th, 2009 at 04:20 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hockeytown, MI
    Beans
    561
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simian Man View Post
    The point is that Ubuntu, or any other distro for that matter, shouldn't be tampering with the underlying mechanics of upstream packages like this.
    This makes no sense, a linux distribution by its very definition is a set of upstream packages modified to work together with each other.

    Adding apps like "Restricted Drivers" or "Add/Remove" to enhance the experience is OK, but fundamentally changing Gnome is not cool.
    Then you'll be happy to know that the old notification daemon is not part of GNOME!

    Another reason Ubuntu has jumped the shark.
    ... and that gives you justification to make things up in the forum? You seem to have a strong opinion about the "tampering" Ubuntu is making to GNOME when not really understanding exactly what GNOME is.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simian Man View Post
    The point is that Ubuntu, or any other distro for that matter, shouldn't be tampering with the underlying mechanics of upstream packages like this. Adding apps like "Restricted Drivers" or "Add/Remove" to enhance the experience is OK, but fundamentally changing Gnome is not cool. Another reason Ubuntu has jumped the shark.
    It's the first I heard that distro developers are not allowed to contribute to the open source projects they use.
    I'm pretty sure Red Hat and Novell are very active contributors.


    In fact, the usual complaint against Ubuntu is that Canonical uses all these projects and give nothing back. Now that that they are contributing back, another faction complains for that very reason.

    I think in this case it's a 'damned if you do and damned if you dont' situation. In thatcase, I'd rather Canonical do.
    In my opninion, more hands is a boon to the entire community; no time for short-sighteed turf wars.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Beans
    424

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    i think the fear is that, with ubuntu's popularity, by changing the essential structure on which commonly used apps run, ubuntu will be able to corner the market on open source apps by making their operating structure particular (maybe 'peculiar' is a better choice of word). in other words, developers will end up designing apps for ubuntu's specific structure, leaving other distros that use a standard setup, out in the cold. like it or not, it is both free and free beer for ubuntu to do so.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Beans
    197

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simian Man View Post
    The point is that Ubuntu, or any other distro for that matter, shouldn't be tampering with the underlying mechanics of upstream packages like this. Adding apps like "Restricted Drivers" or "Add/Remove" to enhance the experience is OK, but fundamentally changing Gnome is not cool. Another reason Ubuntu has jumped the shark.
    Why not? It's all open source. Canonical could go and change the whole Linux architecture if they wanted and strictly speaking there would be nothing wrong with that.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Beans
    1,031

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    At the end of this page as linked to by the blog in question:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/...iatellaSession

    There is this little gem..

    Test/Demo Plan

    Install packages gnome-stracciatella-session and libnotify-bin.

    In a standard Ubuntu session:

    * Run notify-send hello world; this should bring up the notify-osd like black notifcation bubbles.
    * Start pidgin; this should make the messging indicator appear in the panel.

    Now log out, back in, and choose the session "GNOME (without Ubuntu specific components)" in gdm:

    * Run notify-send hello world; this should bring up the traditional yellow notification-daemon bubbles.
    * Start pidgin; you should not see the messging indicator appear in the panel at any time.
    Note how the whole point is that you use the SAME system call and get different behaviours, because they have replaced Gnome's messaging component, but kept its interfaces.

    Applications will 99% of the time never care about what code is used to render any notifications they spit out, as they just send them according to the interface definition.

    In a perfect world there is no issue here whatsoever, as anything coded properly will work in vanilla gnome or in the modified Ubuntu version without any need to rewrite or mess with things. The component model of Linux comes to our rescue yet again.

    This all assumes, obviously, that the application's code is correct, and follows the approved of methods for calling notifications. Unsurprisingly, some applications (probably coded before the standards were finalised, or just sloppy) do not follow the correct methods (as defined by freedesktop.org) and therefore problems can and no doubt will occur. Ubuntu is patching badly behaved applications and sending the patches upstream (where the changes should not alter anything except how standards compliant the codebase is).

    The special gnome session exists so you can test if things are working correctly (because this is real life and testing things is therefore a good idea) and also so you can get hold of a pure gnome desktop if that is what you want to use.

    This argument is total bunkum... if you want to have issues with Ubuntu, please do so for something they are actually doing wrong. That way they can react to the criticism, change and improve. I have no doubt there are many things out there if you look for them. This, however, is an example of them actually behaving very well indeed.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brugge, België
    Beans
    2,933

    Re: Ubuntu screwing it up for the other distros?

    Quote Originally Posted by chucky chuckaluck View Post
    i think the fear is that, with ubuntu's popularity, by changing the essential structure on which commonly used apps run, ubuntu will be able to corner the market on open source apps by making their operating structure particular (maybe 'peculiar' is a better choice of word). in other words, developers will end up designing apps for ubuntu's specific structure, leaving other distros that use a standard setup, out in the cold. like it or not, it is both free and free beer for ubuntu to do so.
    Yes, that was my fear also.

    But it seems it's not an issue, all is fine in the world.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •