I just have to blow of some steam

[curuxz]

I'm starting to think the mods should ban all and any discussion of windows on these boards. Im pro free speach but the emotion atached to the issue seems to be realy deviding the community between those that want to talk about linux and agree windows can have some good areas (such as 3rd party game support, and I cant my self in that group), those that hate windows full stop and will take offence to any mention and those that hate linux and are here for some strange reason :S.

I totaly agree with this thread we need to stop being looked as an alternative or underdog and accepted as a seperate operating system that is in many ways ahead of its compeditors but is not working to out do them, rather just give the best user experience possible.

People should take time to look at linux as something new, not simply a replacement causing them hastle, they did not look at windows as a replacement to dos, they took time to look at it in its own right, we need the same fair mind when noobs start out...


Don't know if people would agree with me though....

[Master Shake]

ONe thing I love about Ubuntu, is that the ROOT account is disabled, therefore its safer to "just play around" with Ubuntu, and not worry about screwing things up, unlike Windon'ts.

[dickohead]

It's all good and well to say "**** off, i'm sick of hearing your problems, why can't you just grow a brain???", but the truth is, most of the people with these problems, are VERY comfortable with Windows, not because they took the time to learn it, but that's all they've ever used, from 3.11 to XP SP2, their entire computing world has been Windows based, they know of nothing else.

When you introduce them to this thing called "Linux" they probably don't give a stuff that it should be titled GNU/Linux, or that it is the result of a massive world wide community, rather than a multinational corporation, some don't even care that it's free or that it comes with all the programs they need pre-installed - why? Because so too does the machine they ordered from Dell, HP, eMachines, IBM etc etc etc.

For us to turn to them and say "Linux is a free alternative to Windows", and then start making posts in forums where we start trying to discuss that Linux should not be considered an alternative, and end users should take time to learn it, is it any wonder some of them get annoyed, angry and upset at us?

Let me make it perfectly clear for you all:

From your perspective Ubuntu Linux is a Unix based operating system, bundled with GNU tools and programs, a graphical server, your chosen desktop environment and a default theme.

From their perspective it's web access without Internet Explorer, e-mail without Outlook, word processing without MS Office, messaging without MSN/Yahoo/AOL messenger and gaming without anything they know.

As you may have noticed, the fact that their machine can be administered via VNC/SSH from anywhere in the world doesn't matter a stuff, the fact that software can be installed from these things called "repositories" across the Internet, probably doesn't mean a whole lot either... but neither did the fact that Windows has Terminal Services and that software needs to be installed from CD/DVD or downloaded then installed.... because for those of us that use these tools and methods, we're always learning new things and we remember how hard it was to initially learn them all, and don't mind doing a bit of research and tweaking to get apache serving pages just the way we want, or block root access from SSH etc etc.

So before we all start playing the blame game, or trying to tell users that they need to take time to learn all these things, perhaps we need to realise that from their perspective - they don't give a stuff about any of the politics/hype/religion or whatever is behind their software, they just want to download porn, steal music and then tell all their mates about it!

[prizrak]

dickohead, while agree with most of your points (especially porn and music ones ) It's not fair to expect a completely and totally different OS to work exactly the same as your old one (OS X or Windows). If people want a Windows replacement they shouldn't be here, OS X is probably for them + Xbox/PS for gaming. If people want to use Linux then this is where they need to be, but they do have to keep an open mind. I been using Linux on and off since 99 - 2K (don't remmember exactly, I know I had a triple boot Win2K, 98, RedHat) at one point I had a Linux only desktop that got converted into an FTP server with a remote graphical login (it's when locally attached monitor runs in terminal, but a VNC connection brings up a full blown GNOME desktop ) But I didn't think Linux was ready for me to be run as a primary OS on my laptop (main machine) untill I played with Warty. Even in Warty I was annoyed at the lack of SU and things that made no sense (like regular xine-ui crashing). Had to keep an open mind and learn and when I did I noticed that I was only using Windows on the desktop playing NFSU and NFSU2. Now the desktop is also Ubuntuland and I don't game no mo (cept for dosbox). I don't hate Windows but I do get annoyed with the amount of resources it takes, an OS IMO is there to let you run programs on top of it, it shouldn't have to use half a gig of RAM just to not thrash the hell out of the drive.

[dickohead]

hey prizrak,

I wasn't stating that I personally experience that, but being someone who constantly attempts at explaining what my systems run, I find that most users don't really care enough to switch over, and those that do are sometimes switching under false pretenses, expecting their windows games/applications to work.

I know that it's nobody's fault, I was trying to make people aware that not all users can see out of their windows.

[poofyhairguy]

I find that most users don't really care enough to switch over

Thats cool. Its their choice.

If ever have to deal with Bonzai Buddy again I will PAY for the right to use Ubuntu!

[prizrak]

hey prizrak,

I wasn't stating that I personally experience that, but being someone who constantly attempts at explaining what my systems run, I find that most users don't really care enough to switch over, and those that do are sometimes switching under false pretenses, expecting their windows games/applications to work.

I know that it's nobody's fault, I was trying to make people aware that not all users can see out of their windows.

Oh yeah I hear ya, everyone thinks that Linux is the next savior (whoever it is in your religion) and then get pissed when it doesn't work the way they expect. In the words of Morpheus "And some are so inert so hopelessly dependant on the system that they cannot live without it" (not an exact quote been a while since I seen The Matrix).

If ever have to deal with Bonzai Buddy again I will PAY for the right to use Ubuntu!

OH GOD! DON'T EVEN REMIND ME! I had this dumb acquintance who thought it was "cool" and she put it on her system and then got sick of it after sometime and had me remove it. Ugg.........

[Brunellus]

Most people on these forums are "family tech support." We get it in the neck when our famililies have computer problems. I don't think I'm alone when I say that the main thing that has driven my aggressive push to migrate my family to Linux is that it simplifies my tech support role.

My mother's machine has been running ubuntu hoary quite happily and stably for ages--with thirty-day uptimes. (it goes down for power outages, or when I have to fiddle with the router downstairs). Zero technical problems, and nothing to worry about as far as possible problems up ahead.

I have likewise ubuntu-ized my little brother's computer, making it dual-boot windows. He is under firm instructions not to boot into windows for anything but games, and he's stuck to it, mostly.

Now, I shudder to think what they'd do if they were installing the system new and by themselves, without support. But for new computer users, who don't really have any Microsoft experience (like my mother), Linux isn't any harder...

[mstlyevil]

As more companies preinstall Linux on machines you will find a whole new group of new users that are not tech savy that will fall in love with the stability and ease of use of Ubuntu and other linux distros. If I can install and quickly configure Ubuntu and Suse 10 as a new user, then it should be a piece of cake for those who do not have the knowledge or time to do so to make a transition to a preconfigured and preinstalled copy of Ubuntu. The biggest learning curve for these people may be finding and installing new software and applications under Linux, but I don't think it will be a major obsticle for them if the documentation shipped with the new PC is clear, concise and easy to understand.

[Mr_J_]

I am a computer technician with no store, but when i get asked about computers from total noobs that have never gotten a computer i try to check if they are suited towards using Ubuntu.

I usually mention the ups and downs of both windows and ubuntu. Most of them are usually impressed with the price that really spikes when i tell the how much they can cut on just windows and office.

Most people that talk to me just want cheap pcs, but if they want to keep improving their pc, then Ubuntu is less suited for them. Since around here i am probably the only person i know in the computer biz that supports linux even the slightest.

Ubuntu is for us more tech folk also a way of life, but for the non techie it's a more pragmatic view. What can't I do with it?
I usually mention the upsides.
Little or no viruses. EVER! They are just not made to get them.
No spyware. No adware. Or any *wares that just screw up the normal functioning.
It comes with office, multimedia, games, and loads of free stuff just beyond a click or two from you. The downside is that you need to be carefull when purchasing new hardware that requires installation.

Then i usually mention the ups of windows. It'll just make everything work.
Downs....
It'll also make viruses work. Spyware will also just work. Same with adware, and all those *wares. Those weird programs you don't know how you got them installed and running will also just work. They all slow the computer down and make you spend money to get rid of them.
But don't worry everything you buy will just work! And all the crap will also just work.
To get this lovely piece of software working correctly you'll need 150€ for windows, 400€ for office, and around 50€ for anti-virus program with firewall.
I just say the closest numbers i remember.

Then i usually come out with...
Ubuntu has a few hassles, but it comes with all you want, and more. It's free on top of that.

Windows comes with less than you want. You have to pay others to make it work. It'll fail constantly. You'll need more money to make it work again. In a few years your cheap computer will go to the trash and you'll need another one with more money spent. Besides all this the software costs more than your computer parts. The upside is everything usually has a version that just works with windows.

If you're wondering most people don't really give that much about eye candy.
Not enough to fork 600€ for a better looking piece of faulty software.

Ubuntu doesn't just work. Not with everything. That's Windows...
Ubuntu is selective about what it just works with.

No viruses, no spyware, no adware, no trojans, none or little problems in exchange all they ask is your patience and wisdom when purchasing new things for your computer. From time to time you might also find that what you are thinking of purchasing will not work and you have to swallow that dry, but what you get instead is worth it for me.

I guess you could describe it as an invisible blanket that keeps you safe from most harm. I call that blanket Ubuntu.