Should Canonical make KDE it's default desktop environment?

[MadmanRB]

While I'm rather agnostic about which DE I use (I'm on Gnome 3 right now), this is oddly the most accurate and semi insulting way possible to describe Gnome's mentality. They have a simple environment which is their entire goal, and I get that, it's fine and works well, but they really do strip out some ridiculously questionable features that simply shouldn't be messed with.

And thus is a valid reason to hate Gnome right now.
There is a difference between simplicity and being downright sadistic on how many less features your interface has over the last one.
Plus I think people here have the wrong idea on what the word "simplistic" means to some people.
For me simplistic means something that is easy to use, so easy that I could give it to an elderly person or a kid who is old enough to use a computer and they can use it with little to no issue.
Now by all means even windows cant fully do this as you still need a point of reference and some helpful tips to keep the system running.
Now of course this is where windows has the advantage as its so widely used that it doesnt take long to find help with it.
Linux doesnt have that advantage so whatever user interface it gives by default must be at least somewhat good enough to stand out.
Unity as much crap I give to it sometimes is still a very easy to use interface, its simple nature is in the way it works and behaves as it allows the end user a sense of power over their machine without having to learn a lot.
The current gnome approach is that it wants to be so different that it complicates things without reason and when you try to use the thing on a normal everyday basis it becomes a nerve racking experience.
Now most linux users dont seem to mind this as the "do it yourself" approach is behind the whole linux mindset.
But its like comparing a pre fabricated apartment or house will all that you need to have a good time or having a vacant lot where you have to build everything from the ground up.
Its clear that Gnome is a true hobbyist interface, but every time you look there is something new missing.
Something that makes the experience far harder and more difficult then what it should be.
Its no wonder why gnome 3 has so many forks and variants, the gnome 3 developers are completely insane and lost touch with the normal every day user.
They want hard coding action and could care less on how many features it doesnt have anymore but should.

[craig10x]

MadmanRB...i think that is the point of ubuntu with unity...it is simple to use and if you want to appeal to the masses (which is the goal of ubuntu which has the BEST shot of achieving this out of all the various versions of linux) and also have something that can easily be set up for various other devices aside from the desktop, the direction they have gone and are going is most definitely, the correct one...

Even for myself, in past years, i use to like to play with various linux desktop environments, customizations, etc...these days, even as a seasoned linux user (4 years) i now enjoy the simplicity and good looks of ubuntu with the unity desktop...

KDE, cinnamon, etc, i think would NOT be the right choice for the goals that the main version of ubuntu is trying to achieve...

[Untold]

Why come out with a ps3 when the 360 was already out? Heck why even come out with consoles at all when pcs and arcade existed? The choice is what makes linux great imo.

Indeed on this one. I like both KDE and unity but Unity I like better. No matter how many others I try I always come back.

[MadmanRB]

MadmanRB...i think that is the point of ubuntu with unity...it is simple to use and if you want to appeal to the masses (which is the goal of ubuntu which has the BEST shot of achieving this out of all the various versions of linux) and also have something that can easily be set up for various other devices aside from the desktop, the direction they have gone and are going is most definitely, the correct one...

In past years, i use to like to play with various linux desktop environments, customizations, etc...these days, even as a seasoned linux user (4 years) i now enjoy the simplicity and good looks of ubuntu with the unity desktop...

Well yes the point of Unity is simplicity,m but note I said how its simplistic in a good way.
Now lets reverse that and see how its simplistic in a bad way.
First is the inability to move the sidebar, without some workaround its impossible.
Or the magic disappearing global menu
Or the disappearing window buttons for that matter.
Or the inability to easily add features to it such as a weather indicator, as in drag and drop as opposed to having to install a third party tool to do so,
One big thing that I like in KDE is the ease of use when adding new widgets to the desktop or panel.
No need to download third party tools unless I really want to.
This is the clear contrast between KDE and Unity where in Unity to do the same job I need many applications to help me out.
KDE is clearly better suited for the customization freaks like me, I like being able to make my desktop look and feel the way I want them as opposed to have everything locked down without me having to install at least several dozen third party tools to get the job done.
At this point even windows has more customization options then Ubuntu, well every version before 8 that is.

[Roasted]

Indeed on this one. I like both KDE and unity but Unity I like better. No matter how many others I try I always come back.

For some reason, I try to almost train myself not to get too attached to Unity. Maybe I'm too much of a software hippy, but I look at something like KDE which is on multiple distros. THAT makes sense to me. Looking at Unity and seeing it as Canonical's baby kind of makes me a little ehh over it. Hey, someday Ubuntu may not be here. It may be a semi foolish mindset, but I like using a DE that I know I can bounce over to a different distro and still have my comfort zone. Plus it helps that KDE is rather easy to use (maybe not quite on the same par as Unity, but let's face it, the default layout isn't exactly intimidating).

[MadmanRB]

For some reason, I try to almost train myself not to get too attached to Unity. Maybe I'm too much of a software hippy, but I look at something like KDE which is on multiple distros. THAT makes sense to me. Looking at Unity and seeing it as Canonical's baby kind of makes me a little ehh over it. Hey, someday Ubuntu may not be here. It may be a semi foolish mindset, but I like using a DE that I know I can bounce over to a different distro and still have my comfort zone. Plus it helps that KDE is rather easy to use (maybe not quite on the same par as Unity, but let's face it, the default layout isn't exactly intimidating).

I kind of agree, if I say jumped over to openSUSE or Sabayon or some other KDE centric distro it will feel the same relatively.
Unity feels like some bizarre alien that may seem nice to some but not everyone welcomes it and wants it in their house.
Heck this is the advantage that gnome shell has over Unity as no matter what distro you use you know you are in for pain and misery.
But at least its somewhat consistent misery.
Not to mention Cinnemon which does seem to be gaining popularity over on some other distributions, it may even become a standard one day.

[craig10x]

Ah but unity is so much nicer then gnome shell...

I've been on kde numerous times, but never really been able to warm up to it...i like it's slab menu and having just a lower panel (like windows)...i also think it has some outstanding programs...like k3b which i ALWAYS install on my ubuntu w/unity...but i don't like the way gnome programs look on kde when you install them on there (where as kde programs look very nice when installed in gnome) so it doesn't handle that well...also, while i appreciate configuration options, it's kind of overblown...don't need 50 settings to adjust my touchpad, 2 or 3 will do (not really 50 but you know what i mean..lol...there is an awful LOT).

[MadmanRB]

Ah but unity is so much nicer then gnome shell...

I've been on kde numerous times, but never really been able to warm up to it...i like it's slab menu and having just a lower panel (like windows)...i also think it has some outstanding programs...like k3b which i ALWAYS install on my ubuntu w/unity...but i don't like the way gnome programs look on kde when you install them on there (where as kde programs look very nice when installed in gnome) so it doesn't handle that well...also, while i appreciate configuration options, it's kind of overblown...don't need 50 settings to adjust my touchpad, 2 or 3 will do (not really 50 but you know what i mean..lol...there is an awful LOT).

Okay granted the power settings section of KDE does need work, and I wish that all the customization options were in the same section.
But whatever at least you can change the look and feel of KDE with ease, dont like the panel being one color?
Apply another theme
Dont like the window decoration?
Apply another one
For unity you need whole new repositories and third party tools.
Unity strips you of options and choice, its either theme A or B.
There is no C, D, Etc...
Unless you have third party tools or tools you cant do it.
Heck even windows has more theme options (again up to 8)

Okay look at this way, lets say that Unity and KDE are restaurants.
Unity only has two foods inside, a hamburger with fries
Or fries with a hamburger
KDE has several food items, burgers, pasta, pizza all different items and all served respectfully.
And as I pointed out the Gnome3 restaurant out there offers water, water ice and ice water.
Then there is the predicted Gnome 4 Restaurant that offers only two parts hydrogen and one parts oxygen
Guess the Gnome 5 restaurant will requires you to practically be God/Allah/Buddha/Shiva/Vishnu/or some other deity (like an invisible pink Unicorn) to even compose the very fabric of an atom.

Guess what ones going to be more popular overall?

[craig10x]

You're making me hungry with all the restaurant comparisons

I agree that there should be a bit more customization in gnome and also for unity...but kde does overdo it a bit...
Gnome and unity for main ubuntu makes more sense for the masses because there are many out there that want something simple to use...

Also, kde does kind of resemble windows a bit...ubuntu with unity has a more "mac-like" look to it...and many love macs and apple products like iphones, etc...
Also, it all "blends" better for "unity" across different types of applications, like tablets, tv's phones, etc...which is just what ubuntu is getting involved with...

[MadmanRB]

You're making me hungry with all the restaurant comparisons

I agree that there should be a bit more customization in gnome and also for unity...but kde does overdo it a bit...
Gnome and unity for main ubuntu makes more sense for the masses because there are many out there that want something simple to use...

Also, kde does kind of resemble windows a bit...ubuntu with unity has a more "mac-like" look to it...and many love macs and apple products like iphones, etc...
Also, it all "blends" better for "unity" across different types of applications, like tablets, tv's phones, etc...which is just what ubuntu is getting involved with...

Yes but for most KDE resembling windows is a good thing.
This is because well... Windows is used everywhere

This is just a common fact, more people use windows more then people use macs or linux so something looking like windows to help the transition easier.
Heck I might not even got into linux if it were not for KDE.
At the time I first used Linux I had access to KDE 3.2.3 in my first linux distro that I used fulltime Mepis Linux 2004.06


So its no wonder my attachment to KDE and one can imagine my utter frustration over KDE 4 when it first came out.
But KDE 4 did improve, by at least KDE 4.4 it actually became usable and by KDE 4.6 it overall became stable (except for plasma, it didnt start to even remotely stabilize till KDE 4.8. KDE 4.10 is incredibly stable though)

But familiarity is a good thing for new users, and thats the thing that separates me from all these loonies who want to create a new paradigm when one is not wanted nor desired by the general public or the every day person.
And I understand that soon devices will feature touchscreens and the traditional desktop will die eventually.
But its too soon, all this crap is coming out of left field right now and its breaking long standing user interfaces for all the wrong reasons.
Yes the future is coming, blah blah blah but there has to be a middle ground.
There is no reason why Windows 7 and 8 cant be sold to different markets and yet still sold at the same time by distributors.
There is no reason why only one interface should be forced down everyones throat.
This is the biggest hole in the approach that both Unity, Gnome shell and Modern UI are trying to do and its wrong.
There are still plenty of users who simply want old fashioned desktop interfaces because it is what they are used to.
And yes there is the argument of "if you dont like it change it" comes in and yes overall you can, but new users may not know what a "Kubuntu" is, they may have heard what a "Ubuntu" is but maybe not one of its spin offs.