Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 52

Thread: How was it tested?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Beans
    Hidden!

    How was it tested?

    I love Linux and have learned many things over the years, including application development. But lately it just seems like the problems I'm finding are due to either lack of testing or lack of programming knowledge/skills. Please read the following with an open mind. This post is not meant to upset anyone.

    Launcher
    Symptom: Launching an app requires more work in Unity than was required in previous versions of Gnome.

    In Gnome 2.x, opening an app was as simple as clicking on Applications > Accessories > app_name. Unity requires more steps - Click on Unity launch icon in the left panel > Click on apps icon at the bottom of the unity launch window > click on "See $number more results > scroll to find the desired app > click app_name. I realize that the Ubuntu developers want people to use the HUD, but people want the easiest method and that means point and click, not typing and hope that the user gets the correct app name. The average user doesn't want to type, the average user wants to point and click.. otherwise we'd still be using text-only operating systems. The mouse and trackpad were developed to make things easier, but the Unity developers seem to be stuck in a previous decade. However, I realize this is Ubuntu's pet project and itsn't going to change.. which is sad.

    Eye of Gnome (EOG)
    Symptom: Double-click a picture in a folder. The picture opens but pressing the "Next" button in EOG sometimes skips pictures in the same folder. EOG does not display pictures in the same order as they appear in a folder (alphabetical).

    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Open Nautilus
    2. Double-click on a picture
    3. Press the Next button in EOG and keep track of the file names as you page through pictures


    I can just hear the end-user; "what happened to the picture I just put in that folder?"

    Nautilus
    Symptom: The background color of the right pane in Nautilus sometimes changes for no apparent reason.

    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Open Nautilus and note the background color of the right pane (file view)
    2. Right-click a folder and choose "Open in new tab"
    3. Now, note background color of each tab


    It's not a huge bug, but it does detract from the professionalism of Ubuntu.

    Contacts
    Symptom: Missing text input field.

    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Open the Contacts app
    2. Click the "New" button in the tool bar
    3. Notice the missing text input field for "Address"


    I don't think this app was tested prior to release.

    System problem reported
    Symptom: At random times I get a message that pops up on the desktop with no way of canceling or reporting the problem.

    The body of the popup states "System program problem detected" and the popup window includes two buttons for "Cancel" and "Report problem...". There is no error code or any type of hint as to the nature of the problem. The Cancel button does not dismiss the popup window and the Report problem button yields nothing that the user can see. If the problem was reported then the popup window should be dismissed, but this is not the case. It would have been nice of the developers to at least give the user a hint as to what caused the problem so the user could include that information in any online discussion.

    Log out, Shutdown
    Symptom: Clicking the system icon and choosing Log Out or Shut Down does nothing.

    In the Unity desktop there is a system icon (gear in the upper right corner) that yields a user menu. Two of the choices in this menu are Log Out and Shut Down. However, clicking on either of those menu items sometimes produces no action. How is the user to log out or shut down the machine if these menu items produce no effects?

    I've found many more bugs but I don't wish to waste time and space listing them here just to be told to file bug reports elsewhere. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but it's not the job of the end-user to find and report bugs.. please don't rely on us this way. Do more testing and bug fixing prior to release. Some of the bugs that I found are the result of a lack of testing prior to release, that's the only logical conclusion. What else is the end-user supposed to think when they open an app and there is a missing text input box on the main window? And this app was chosen for inclusion in a major Linux distribution (Ubuntu)? How is the end-user supposed to trust an operating system that includes amateur mistakes? The typical response is "file a bug". But, that is not the job of the end-user. It is the job of the developer to at least test their software and attempt fix bugs prior to release. If developers spent more time on proper software testing, the end-user could spend more time on getting things done rather than reporting silly mistakes made by the developers.

    To the new Linux user, these problems are the fault of Ubuntu developers. New Linux users don't realize that there are countless developers all over the world working on the various apps and/or contributing code. Perhaps that's the problem.. too many cooks in the kitchen and the lack of a "head chef".

    I hear the phrase "this will be the year Linux overtakes the desktop", I've heard it every year since 2003 and every year it never happens. Linux will never overtake the desktop until the developers learn how to do a better job of testing their apps prior to release. I love Ubuntu but it's a good thing Linux is free, otherwise the user base would be much smaller.
    Last edited by ardchoille422; November 9th, 2013 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mystletainn Kick!
    Beans
    5,276
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: How was it tested?

    I can not reproduce your EOG problem.
    My pictures always show first numerically, then alphabetically.
    They never skip.
    And always in order.
    Splat Double Splat Triple Splat
    Earn Your Keep
    Don't mind me, I'm only passing through.
    Once in a blue moon, I'm actually helpful
    .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Hills CA
    Beans
    9,126
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: How was it tested?

    Perhaps Unity is not the best environment for you. Try Linux Mint Mate and see if that addresses your issues.
    -------------------------------------
    Oooh Shiny: PopularPages

    Unumquodque potest reparantur. Patientia sit virtus.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: How was it tested?

    Hmm.. curious. I haven't removed anything from my system, only added some apps. I wonder what I could have done to make EOG act the way it does.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Tennessee
    Beans
    3,421

    Re: How was it tested?

    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but it's not the job of the end-user to find and report bugs.. please don't rely on us this way. Do more testing and bug fixing prior to release. Some of the bugs that I found are the result of a lack of testing prior to release, that's the only logical conclusion.
    Hate to break this to you... but it pretty much is the end-user's job. Or at least, the end-users who volunteer to run the betas and report bugs.

    Speaking as a (non-Ubuntu, mind you) developer, developers are *the worst* people for finding bugs. They only use their software according to the assumptions they built it with. It takes people who aren't familiar with the design assumptions to really find bugs.

    I don't use any of the programs you mentioned, so I have no idea if these bugs are reproducible on another system or not. But if they're on your system, there's a good chance their due to some condition specific to your system, and if that's the case, only you can report the bug.

    Give developers the benefit of the doubt; they aren't idiots, you know. Maybe start your logic with that assumption, and see if you come to a different conclusion.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: How was it tested?

    I've tried several distros, they all have their own set of problems.

    I feel that most of the problems with Ubuntu would disappear if the following points were adopted:
    * Put more effort into testing software before release (how was a missing text box overlooked?)
    * Avoid relying on the user base to report bugs (developer accountability)
    * Switch from a 6 month release cycle to a "release it when it's ready" cycle (perfection cannot be rushed)
    * Concentrate less on being "cutting edge" and more on quality software (quality takes time)

    Red Hat and Debian include older software, yes, but the reason for that is because they do more extensive testing before sending the release out the door. Perhaps Canonical could take a lesson from these two distros.

    We don't have to be "the first", but we need to be "the best", and doing that takes time and attention to detail.

    Just my $0.02

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: How was it tested?

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    Hate to break this to you... but it pretty much is the end-user's job. Or at least, the end-users who volunteer to run the betas and report bugs.

    Speaking as a (non-Ubuntu, mind you) developer, developers are *the worst* people for finding bugs. They only use their software according to the assumptions they built it with. It takes people who aren't familiar with the design assumptions to really find bugs.

    I don't use any of the programs you mentioned, so I have no idea if these bugs are reproducible on another system or not. But if they're on your system, there's a good chance their due to some condition specific to your system, and if that's the case, only you can report the bug.

    Give developers the benefit of the doubt; they aren't idiots, you know. Maybe start your logic with that assumption, and see if you come to a different conclusion.
    Yes, I understand developers aren't idiots, and I praise them for their coding knowledge. I develop some apps that I use and it takes a lot of time and effort. Developers are awesome! I just feel that someone at Canonical needs to do more testing before Ubuntu is released. A missing text input box for the Address field in the Contacts app? How was this missed? If this was overlooked, what other important items were overlooked?

    I'm not trying to berate anyone, I'm just trying (hoping) to get Canonical to understand that more testing is needed before releasing Ubuntu. This is the best distro around, but some of the bugs detract from the value of the distro. If the distro improves I'm betting donations would increase.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Beans
    2,364

    Re: How was it tested?

    Please don't save up big rants like these. You can benefit much more from a separate thread for each issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    Launcher
    Symptom: Launching an app requires more work in Unity than was required in previous versions of Gnome.
    By the generally accepted definition of "more work" meaning more keystrokes or more mouse clicks, this is demonstrably not true. Common applications in the launcher bar: one click or keystroke. Occasionally-used applications: two clicks. Rarely-used applications: three clicks and/or a couple keystrokes. Unity gets easier as you use it in two ways - you discover more features, and Zeitgeist moves your most-used applications closer to the top of the search results.

    If you don't like Unity, or you have imprinted on something else, that's okay. You don't have to like it. Nobody will force you to use it, and there are plenty of alternatives. But don't offer this they-are-just-wrong-and-unreasoning ranting. The Ubuntu designers publish their work, ask for feedback, are globally available at the online Ubuntu Developer Summits, and have done a huge amount of real usability research and testing in this field.

    The average user doesn't want to point and click - that's Unity's point. The average user want the machine to be psychic, to adaptively understand what the user wants, and to provide the most common choices first. The point-and-click interface is the hindrance (and is tough on a tiny phone screen, too); the user wants the application at the end of the process, not the process itself.

    It's okay to not like their work. But to reject their work with a rather childish political argument like "it's-merely-their-pet-project" really diminishes your credibility on the topic.

    And I don't even use Unity very often. I imprinted on something else, and I still like something else.


    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    Eye of Gnome (EOG)
    Nautilus
    Contacts
    Log out, Shutdown
    Well, have your reported these bugs properly?
    Have you helped to confirm other reported bugs?
    Have you helped triage bugs so developers can spend time fixing the bugs instead of clerical work?
    Have you helped test pre-release software? The developers have begged for more testing volunteers, on as many platforms as possible.
    Have you contributed patches? Updated documentation? Packaged? Backported? Joined a LoCo? Helped other users?







    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    System problem reported
    Symptom: At random times I get a message that pops up on the desktop with no way of canceling or reporting the problem.
    It's not reporting the problem to you. It's reporting the problem back to daisy.ubuntu.com.
    You can check the apport logs to see what was reported.
    You can check http://errors.ubuntu.com to see the most common reported problems. The Ubuntu Bug Squad takes those reports very seriously.



    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    it's not the job of the end-user to find and report bugs
    That seems like a paying-customer attitude that strongly damages your credibility in this community.
    If you are a paying customer, you have the right to complain about a product or ask for a refund.
    But you're not a customer of the Ubuntu project. Canonical didn't earn a penny from your purchase price. You're a member of this community, and nobody in this community cares about unconstructive complaints or rants. Instead, we work together to improve it. Constructive suggestions and discussion are always welcome.

    Who, exactly, do you expect to do all this additional testing...for free? Volunteers. Community members. The testing team. In other words, us.



    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    Perhaps that's the problem.. too many cooks in the kitchen and the lack of a "head chef".
    I urge you to participate in next week's Ubuntu Developer Summit ( http://summit.ubuntu.com ) and see exactly how Ubuntu gets put together. You may be surprised just how focused and disciplined many teams are, how strong the focus on quality and testing really is, the strategies for better testing, more testing, sustainable testing, better bug reporting, automated bug reporting, and how the feedback process really works (well) in this community.

    Ubuntu's quality has hugely improved in the past few years. System crashes and X crashes are *way* down. Boot is faster, and printing and video are no longer arcane magic. Honestly, given a choice between the system-killing X and print and other bugs we used to have against the rather lightweight missing-text field and other application bugs of today...I'll stick with today's bugs. Maybe you can help us figure out how to test applications more and better before release.

    We're open to new ideas and new contributors like you.
    Last edited by ian-weisser; November 10th, 2013 at 02:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Beans
    185
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: How was it tested?

    Quote Originally Posted by ardchoille422 View Post
    I feel that most of the problems with Ubuntu would disappear if the following points were adopted:
    * Put more effort into testing software before release (how was a missing text box overlooked?)
    * Avoid relying on the user base to report bugs (developer accountability)
    * Switch from a 6 month release cycle to a "release it when it's ready" cycle (perfection cannot be rushed)
    * Concentrate less on being "cutting edge" and more on quality software (quality takes time)

    Red Hat and Debian include older software, yes, but the reason for that is because they do more extensive testing before sending the release out the door. Perhaps Canonical could take a lesson from these two distros.

    We don't have to be "the first", but we need to be "the best", and doing that takes time and attention to detail.
    You didn't specify what version of Ubuntu you are running but my guess is 13.10 or 13.04 which by design is to have some of the latest cutting edge features and is kind of used as a testing ground for the next LTS Release of Ubuntu.

    If you don't want or need the latest features and want a rock solid version of Ubuntu that is well established and has gone through more testing then stick with the LTS Release.

    Even Windows has many "unknown" bugs when it is first released that aren't discovered until it is released to the general public and it isn't free.

    There are way to many hardware and software combinations that could potentially cause problems to pop up and it is user testing and feedback that helps fix them in a timely manner.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York, NY
    Beans
    1,280
    Distro
    Ubuntu 15.04 Vivid Vervet

    Re: How was it tested?

    Unity is certainly simple and intuitive to use...you put your favorite and most used apps on the dock for quick 1 click access...rarely used apps you simply open the dash and type the first few letters of what you want, there it is...click and it is open...can you get anymore simple and basic then that???

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •