Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: YouTube

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Beans
    74
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    YouTube

    I am a Ubuntu 'newbie' and have occasionally posted on the Absolute Beginner Section, with regard to various questions I have had about posting. A few days ago, I posted regarding a difficulty with a YouTube download, where I could not get an .asf file to load in my computer. An administrator came on to the thread, closed it, and issued an 'infraction' to me. I inquired as to the infraction, asking whether it was meant to protect copyrighted material on YouTube (of which I stated that I was not doing) and I was advised of the forum's policy regarding any downloads from YouTube, was against YouTube's current EULA to download any videos anymore. A link to the main section of the forum was sent to me, indicating the YouTube sticky. After a number of emails back and forth, it was suggested that I post my queries in the resolution portion of the forum. My last query is as follows: My basic position is as follows: a. The Absolute Beginners Section (where most beginners will directly go), does not indicate this 'sticky' nor indicate any mention of a YouTube download policy. It is therefore somewhat discreditable to enforce such policies on forum areas where they have not been publicised, particularly in areas such as 'Absolute Beginners', which, by definition, would presume a lack of Ubuntu/forum experience. b. Citing one paragraph, out of context, from the YouTube policy is discrepant and inaccurate. YouTube allows downloads of videos wherein permission from Licensors (other than YouTube) have been given, as is evidenced by the one paragraph from their EULA that you quote. Such permission is evident in the myriad of YouTube entries wherein the download link has been supplied, and apparently, approved by YouTube. c. It is necessary to understand the premise behind YouTube's policy, wherein they are attempting to enforce copyright protection for commercial purposes. Frankly, it is questionable whether the majority of the uploaders (Licensors) 'own' or have any rights to the videos that they have uploaded. It is presumed that most music mixes, videos taken from TV broadcasts, etc., do not have that right. Yet, YouTube allows these uploads. It is additionally interesting that, under section 5.L of their TOS, they specify that videos are not to be downloaded 'permanently or temporarily', yet, in fact, ALL YouTube videos are 'temporarily' downloaded to any computer that accesses them. d. Ubuntu itself provides a program for downloading content from YouTube. It would be safe to assume that such a program presupposes the 'honesty' and compliance of any regulations, of any downloader. I do not believe that it is within the perimeters of any forum to 'judge' my ho nesty, compliance and/or intent. As the link you have provided does not allow me to forward my response to whatever administrators handle such matters, may I ask that you be good enough to forward same to the proper recipient. While an 'infraction' does not necessarily impede my further use of Ubuntu and/or the forum, I do wish that my objection be voiced. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: YouTube

    I have to say that you do yourself no favours by presenting a number of detailed points in an unbroken wall of text with no paragraph breaks, thus making them difficult to read and assimilate. If you wish to be heard, you need to think of your audience. Nevertheless, I shall try to address your concerns.

    It seems to me that there are two main issues, namely: forum policy on downloading from YouTube videos, and whether or not it was appropriate for you to receive an infraction point.

    Forum policy on downloading YouTube

    I remind you of the forum Code of Conduct to which you agreed when you created your forum account. In particular:

    We do not support circumventing TOS, EULA, etc here. Such threads will be closed and offending users will be penalised with infractions and warnings.
    The YouTube sticky to which you refer to is merely a clarification and amplification of the main Code of Conduct as it applies to YouTube. I also remind you of part of the last paragraph of the sticky:

    We are not a court of law. If you wish to challenge their terms hire a lawyer and take your argument up with YouTube. The arguments are inappropriate here as we do not administer their website.
    To pick up some of your points:

    It is additionally interesting that, under section 5.L of their TOS, they specify that videos are not to be downloaded 'permanently or temporarily', yet, in fact, ALL YouTube videos are 'temporarily' downloaded to any computer that accesses them.
    Frankly, I find that a specious argument, but if it worries you, as above, take it up with YouTube. The terms of YouTube's ToS are clear, and we have to respect that.

    Ubuntu itself provides a program for downloading content from YouTube.
    It does not. I guess you are referring to a command-line app that is in the Universe repository. The Universe repository is not officially supported by Ubuntu, and you should not assume that anything in Universe (or Multiverse) is approved by Ubuntu.

    Frankly, it is questionable whether the majority of the uploaders (Licensors) 'own' or have any rights to the videos that they have uploaded. It is presumed that most music mixes, videos taken from TV broadcasts, etc., do not have that right. Yet, YouTube allows these uploads.
    Are you implying that two wrongs make a right, that because some uploaded material might infringe copyright, it is therefore acceptable for others to download it? If that is what you mean, I find that an extraordinary suggestion. And your second sentence is incorrect. YouTube have a clear copyright policy and a mechanism whereby copyright holders can request removal of uploaded material that infringes copyright.

    Whether or not it was appropriate for you to receive an infraction point.

    First to pick up a couple of your points:

    An administrator came on to the thread, closed it, and issued an 'infraction' to me.
    A forum moderator dealt with your thread, not an administrator.

    As the link you have provided does not allow me to forward my response to whatever administrators handle such matters, may I ask that you be good enough to forward same to the proper recipient.
    You have posted in the correct place, where one or more of the seven forum administrators (who together make up the Forum Council) can respond to your concerns.

    Had you focused on the appropriateness of the infraction, I would have been prepared to consider that, and sympathetically. Instead, you tried to justify yourself with a number of unconvincing (to me) arguments about YouTube's ToS and the forum Code of Conduct. Before we go any further, I have to ask you: are you prepared to follow the forum Code of Conduct?

    Please do not PM me about your forum account unless you have been asked to. The correct place to contact an admin about your account is here.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Not heaven... Iowa
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: YouTube

    Quote Originally Posted by Inisfad View Post
    While an 'infraction' does not necessarily impede my further use of Ubuntu and/or the forum, I do wish that my objection be voiced. Thank you.
    The infraction will expire in less than two weeks and might serve as a suggestion to review the rest of the Code of Conduct. Your objection has been noted.
    Linux User #415691 Ubuntu User #8629
    Iowa Team (LoCo): [Wiki] [Launchpad]
    IRC channel: #ubuntu-us-ia on irc.freenode.net

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Beans
    74
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: YouTube

    Thank you both for your responses.
    First, regarding the formatting of my response, as I originally said, I AM a newbie....When I try to format so that a) and b) etc are in different paragraphs, it looks fine in my computer, but when posting, it becomes all one paragraph. Rather than casting some aspersion as to my formatting (and one would presume that I would want my response to be easily read and understood, considering I am taking the time to respond), a suggestion on how to alleviate that problem would have been more helpful.
    In any event, I again reiterate that the YouTube policy of this forum should be placed as a sticky in the Absolute Beginners section, where absolute beginners directly go. There are a number of stickies there presently, but none about this issue. It would appear to be somewhat evident that I am a newbie - I assume that most newbies go directly to the Absolute Beginner section, and do not look at stickies that are situate on the main forum page. In furtherance of my 'newbie' status, although ignorance of 'the law' is no excuse, presumably someone more experienced in this issue would have posted that they were unable to PLAY or CONVERT .asf files, rather than indicating any YouTube issue at all. In any event, although this forum is free to have whatever policy it wishes, assuming that all YouTube 'downloads' contravene their EULA policy is prejudicial. Once again, YouTube's EULA indicates that you CAN download from their site with 'permission' from the Licensor (presumably the uploader).
    I am most certainly prepared to follow a 'Code of Conduct' - as it is unknown whether I had permission from the Licensor, or if, in fact, I WAS the Licensor, I find the 'presumed guilty' stance of this infraction a bit unattractive.
    By the way, I don't believe that there is 'specious' about the fact the anything you view in YouTube is actually downloaded on to your computer, despite their instruction otherwise.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Beans
    74
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: YouTube

    By the way, I see that paragraphs format properly only if I turn off No Script when posting.....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Williams Lake
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: YouTube

    Quote Originally Posted by Inisfad View Post
    By the way, I see that paragraphs format properly only if I turn off No Script when posting.....
    If you allow yahooapis, you shouldn't have a problem with post formatting.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •