Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jr.gotti
When you install windows, what do you get? For the most part, a completely working system. (MP3's play, Flash is a click away, Shockwave is available, Graphics drivers preinstalled.)
I have to reinstall Windows on the kids' computer sometime soon. It's running slow as hell, is very bogged down, and generally suffers from 'been installed too long' disease.
And I'm not looking forward to it. Since it's a home build, I don't have a handy OEM disk. So when i install Windows, there will be no motherboard drivers, no graphics drivers, the internet won't work (wireless), my browser of choice (firefox) won't be installed, and there will be no useful software available. And the support? Hopeless. If they would use Ubuntu, I could just pop in the disk and leave it for 20 mins, and everything would work out of the box (except those nasty closed source graphics drivers!). But they like windows, and they choose to use lots of programs and games that are windows only. Their computer, their choice.
But I'm in danger of dragging this topic off the rails.
So back to the point, WHY would Nvidia or ATI install malware infected drivers? What would be in it for them? Sony installed their rootkit as a way of cracking down on piracy. And it backfired. VERY badly for them. Despite publically apologising, replacing the cds and removing the rootkit installing stuff from their cds, many many people have sworn never to buy their cds again. And this is cds, that cost $10-$20. When you buy a graphics card, you tend to spend a lot more than that. And it's in the vendors interest to want you to buy from them again. Including malware with their drivers would be suicide. They don't keep their drivers closed source so they can slip in nasties, they do it to stop the competition seeing what they do with their drivers, so neither company can get the upper hand. Or thats how I see it at least.
If you don't want closed source, don't buy from a vendor who only supplies closed source drivers. If you don't want closed source drivers, uninstall them. If you don't like a distro that has closed source binaries included, use another distro.
Alternatively, get one of THESE. Not sure if they're covered under GPL tho'.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
jr.gotti said:
«I believe you are being slightly ridiculous»
If you think I'm ridiculous what can I think about a man like you that continues trusting a man like Shuttleworth and a distro like Ubuntu, in spite they had cheated on all of us?
You are trusting someone who said this:
«Ubuntu is entirely committed to the principles of open source software development; no part of it will ever be proprietary, and we encourage people to use it, improve it and pass it on.»
Read my lips: «no part of it will ever be proprietary". I can't trust this person anymore.
So if I'm ridiculous, and you still trust Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth, aren't you a naif? (to say the least!)
Or do you like to be cheated?
In my country we usually say: "you can cheat me once, but you can't cheat me twice!"
zetetic
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
I will stay with ubuntu, I will install binary blobs, I will fight binary blobs the only way I know how... more free software code.
I do not think that Binary Drivers are a realistic future proof design. they are fickle and private and I hate them.
But I use them anyway.
I'm with ubuntu on this one: We hate binary only, we love freesoftware but the computer must be usable until we can poor enough presure, money or time to solving the problem properly.
Those who don't believe Binary drivers are any sort of problem are just ignorant of gnu/linux's true strenth.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
d3v1ant_0n3
I have to reinstall Windows on the kids' computer sometime soon. It's running slow as hell, is very bogged down, and generally suffers from 'been installed too long' disease.
Of course the list of problems with Windows goes on, but most of it is due to security holes, giving way to viruses and spyware that slow down the computer. But all this is common knowledge so I thought I wouldn't waste readers time by listing all the errors of Microsoft. If you'd like I'll start working on a comprehensive list, though. :P
Seriously though, you are right. It works, but not for long. And that's what makes linux great. Once you get it working it works forever. (Unless you get bored and inquisitive at the CLI =D). My point is that if using binary drivers can enable linux to work from the install and THEN work forever, then I'm all for it.
(Of course, the few binary drivers that will be included won't make everything work right away, but it is a step in the right direction, IMO.)
-Jason
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoctorMO
Those who don't believe Binary drivers are any sort of problem are just ignorant of gnu/linux's true strenth.
That was perhaps a rash statement. I do not believe myself to be ignorant to the benefits of linux and open source, but to believe that all proprietary software is evil; now that is ignorant.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
If you feel lied to, that's fine. I personally don't see how. When I came to Ubuntu (shortly after Breezy was released), I did some research; I found that there were, in fact, binary bits installed by default...I thought that was a little bit weird, due to the claims of not being proprietary...but at least the situation was honest.
Given that the proprietary parts have been there since Warty, and you mentioned you hadn't been using Ubuntu for more than five or six weeks, I feel as if you just blindly thrust yourself into a situation without looking into it.
If you are going to trust statements like that so blindly, you will continue to be lied to...you're an easy target.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
My only beef with including these drivers is that it goes against what seems to be Ubuntu mission statement:
Ubuntu distro says:
Quote:
«Ubuntu is entirely committed to the principles of open source software development; no part of it will ever be proprietary, and we encourage people to use it, improve it and pass it on.»
If a company lays down a mission statement and decides to go against it then it gives reason to doubt the other "rules" laid down in the mission statement.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zetetic
jr.gotti said:
«I believe you are being slightly ridiculous»
If you think I'm ridiculous what can I think about a man like you that continues trusting a man like Shuttleworth and a distro like Ubuntu, in spite they had cheated on all of us?
You are trusting someone who said this:
«Ubuntu is entirely committed to the principles of open source software development; no part of it will ever be proprietary, and we encourage people to use it, improve it and pass it on.»
Read my lips: «no part of it will ever be proprietary". I can't trust this person anymore.
So if I'm ridiculous, and you still trust Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth, aren't you a naif? (to say the least!)
Or do you like to be cheated?
In my country we usually say: "you can cheat me once, but you can't cheat me twice!"
zetetic
I hope you realise that string of arguments only works if you start with the assumption that binary drivers are evil and should never be used?
What does trust have to do with anything, by the way? You sound as if the only thing you had left to trust in this entire world was just taken from you.
Relax.
It's just a computer and it's just an OS. It's a toy, a tool, something you use to get stuff done. It's a bunch of electronic components made to work together, as as long as they do, great. Since when is a bunch of electronic components inside a metal shell worthy of ideological warfare?
/Mimsy
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zetetic
If you think I'm ridiculous what can I think about a man like you that continues trusting a man like Shuttleworth and a distro like Ubuntu, in spite they had cheated on all of us?
You are trusting someone who said this:
«Ubuntu is entirely committed to the principles of open source software development; no part of it will ever be proprietary, and we encourage people to use it, improve it and pass it on.»
Read my lips: «no part of it will ever be proprietary". I can't trust this person anymore.
zetetic
I do not request you're trust, nor does Mark Shuttleworth or the Ubuntu community. None of the aforementioned parties will lose sleep over your parting. If you no longer like Ubuntu, then have fun with Debian. No hard feelings. Choice is the beauty of linux. And I choose to accept Shuttleworth's decision in the trust that it will benifit the OS. At any time if I feel that nVidia's binary was actually written by an Uber H4x0r in an attempt to steal my home login password for nVidia's corporate gain, then I will remove then. Until then...
EDIT: Sorry about the triple post...I did that without thinking.
Re: Ubuntu users will totally loose control of their systems
Quote:
That was perhaps a rash statement. I do not believe myself to be ignorant to the benefits of linux and open source, but to believe that all proprietary software is evil; now that is ignorant.
I agree, to think anything as emotionless as software is evil would be quite silly.
But to think that it doesn't have technical and pratical problems is very short sighted. you will be giving up future proof, solid solutions in favour of hidden unknown variables which you have no control over.
it's not practical in the long run.
