Announcement: PMming and/or IMming mods

Lately I've noticed a slight uptick in the number of PMs and IMs I've been getting for new installation support.

Installations are hard work, especially if you're new to installing OSes. We mods appreciate that. But please, new users: give the forum community a chance to work for YOU.

PMming mods about installation issues is often unnecessary. These forums are almost unimaginably active--there are thousands of users out there who might be able to help you. If you PM only one of us and we don't have your answer, you're out of luck. If you post to the forums, someone might know how to help you.

So, please: If you need help post a thread in the appropriate forum. It is also helpful to set the "auto-subscribe to threads" option on your Forum User Control Panel--that way you can keep tabs on all the threads you've posted/have responded to.


For those of you wishing more...immediate help: try IRC. Open up GAIM, open a new IRC account, and point it to irc.freenode.net, and join the #ubuntu channel. Be advised that #ubuntu can be very busy at times, but the users there might be able to point you in the right direction.

Just a suggestion: Maybe you should "sticky" this announcement so people are reminded about this.

Otherwise it may just drop out of the "attention zone" in a matter of hours. ;)

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Maybe you should "sticky" this announcement so people are reminded about this.

Otherwise it may just drop out of the "attention zone" in a matter of hours.

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This announcement is stickied. It is going nowhere.

Some mods may deal with certain sorts of problems alot and may be known for it, in those cases it can be bothersome when PMing is blocked.

you could try PMing a member that has helped you before and has some experience, but who is not neccessarily a mod. They do a good job, and with all the other people who hang out here, it seems a little disrespectful to put even more of the load on the mods. They do, after all, volunteer their free time just to help the ubuntuforums....

This thread should probably be locked.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is PMming / IMming?

PM = Personal Message (a message which can be sent through the forum)
IM = Instant Message (a message sent by using AIM, MSN or so).

PMming or IMming is making use of the above to get a message to someone at the forum

BTW: I agree with wert613, maybe someone should lock this thread.

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Originally Posted by useResa

BTW: I agree with wert613, maybe someone should lock this thread.

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And delete the replies too, probably. Just a thought. http://forums.editingarchive.com/ima...ies/2cents.gif

hi, i think there's freenode #ubuntuforums too. i think that's the correct channel.

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Originally Posted by ice60

hi, i think there's freenode #ubuntuforums too. i think that's the correct channel.

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#ubuntuforums tends to be the 'community chat' channel--we hang out there and talk about everything...and do a bit of linux as well. #ubuntu is the official dedicated support channel.

We're also happy to help you out on #ubuntuforums, of course. The overall tone on #ubuntuforums is a lot more "social," while #ubuntu revolves around support almost exclusively.

You should mention searching for your problem before posting.

Google Search > Forums Search > (search some more) > Post a New Thread

I try to limit redundant threads in any forum that I'm a member of.

I have noticed that when I have posted a question on the forums regarding whatever, they usually are unanswered. And when I use search, I can see various similar threads in which nobody has replied anything.

I just wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed with the support I've got from other users at Ubuntu forums. (I'm not supporting PMming mods for help.)

I'm a bit of a new user and I want other new users to know this as well; Why would you rely on a response from one person who you do not know if they are at keys or not, when you could have one of thousands of people see your question. Not all mods are experts of every venue within Ubuntu.

Also, if you find an answer to your question, please make sure you note the answer found, it could help out other new users such as myself.

Every time you IM a mod, God kills a Domo-Kun. So please, think of the Domo-Kuns.

See, its a good idea to remind people to not PM/email mods and more knowledgable users. And yes, there are a lot of people on. HOWEVER, there are hundreds of post asking for help made a day in the Installation Support forums, and a small number of these posts actually get read. There needs to be a new system or a good FAQ or something.

- Andrew

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Originally Posted by AMT

See, its a good idea to remind people to not PM/email mods and more knowledgable users. And yes, there are a lot of people on. HOWEVER, there are hundreds of post asking for help made a day in the Installation Support forums, and a small number of these posts actually get read. There needs to be a new system or a good FAQ or something.

- Andrew

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We're *volunteers,* not a paid helpdesk. Don't abuse us like you would the hired help--we don't get paid, and we don't take kindly to peremptory demands.

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Originally Posted by AMT

See, its a good idea to remind people to not PM/email mods and more knowledgeable users. And yes, there are a lot of people on. HOWEVER, there are hundreds of post asking for help made a day in the Installation Support forums, and a small number of these posts actually get read. There needs to be a new system or a good FAQ or something.

- Andrew

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I am not a moderator or administrator and quite a frequent visitor of the forum (nearly every day). My personal experience is different than yours.
I think most posts are read and relatively few are left unanswered.

Furthermore my experience is that there are a lot of HowTo threads in the forum and I noticed that most of my questions have been answered before although it does require some searching. :-k
But I - until now - found the search function a great help!
If I have a question the search function - if it does not provide an answer - at leasts helps me to post my question in the right section. #-o

Please do not give up to easily, try the search and as indicated, remember that all forum staff are volunteers.

Good luck in getting your questions answered.:D

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Originally Posted by Brunellus

We're *volunteers,* not a paid helpdesk. Don't abuse us like you would the hired help--we don't get paid, and we don't take kindly to peremptory demands.

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Although you may not agree with Andrew is indicating, I think he is only making a suggestion based on his experience. Personally I think your reaction is quite harsh to someone who - IMHO - is only indicating that he has some problems getting his questions answered.

I know you're all volunteers and I guess most of us do. No need to rub it in if someone is just indicating his experience.

Lighten up and rock on! :guitar:

i agree however people come to the moderators because they seem more knowlegeable

i would gladly volenteer to become a moderator esspecially because i am home all day with nothing but about an hour of correspondence course papers from a local college and could dedicate a lot of time to helping the forums

i like to help people and even though noone here is payed for this it feels good just to know that you helped someone and made them happy

wert

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Originally Posted by wert613

i agree however people come to the moderators because they seem more knowlegeable

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Hehe... We're definately not all like that, look at me for example! :)

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Originally Posted by PriceChild

Hehe... We're definately not all like that, look at me for example! :)

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i said they look it not that nessacerally are;)

nevertheless most of the time they are more knowlagable if only as a result of more expirience

wert

PMming can be great if one knows a community member and desires to solve a small problem.

although i am not a moderator i certainly will answer any pms that deal with a subject i know about

if i dont know about it i will study up on it and try to get back to you:D

I agree that pm-ing or im-ing a mod out of the blue is rather rude.

For me, I always have a hard time finding the FAQ's and howto pages. btw, where are they again? Some new users don't know the lingo to find what they are looking for. Some howto with specific lingo doesn't do much good for a searcher using generic terms. I have had this same problem with Google. Search generic terms and you get 10+ year old junk.

I have no problem with people im-ing me but that needs to be said up front and maybe people passed a certain post count can turn on some "I am willing to accept im's and pm's" switch. But again, I don't know hardly anything and my ubuntu installs haven't had any problems.

morequarky

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Originally Posted by Kulgan

you could try PMing a member that has helped you before and has some experience, but who is not neccessarily a mod. They do a good job, and with all the other people who hang out here, it seems a little disrespectful to put even more of the load on the mods. They do, after all, volunteer their free time just to help the ubuntuforums....

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No that is not good , I feel that all support questions should be asked in the right forum this way it benefits other new users.

Suzy :KS

One of the fun and exciting :) things about computers is you are finding new things.
What is PMming and/or IMming mods?

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Originally Posted by cethomas

One of the fun and exciting :) things about computers is you are finding new things.
What is PMming and/or IMming mods?

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PMing mods is private messaging staff, IMing them is Instant Messaging staff. Mods is short for moderators.

I thik a resonable alternative solution would be to create a speacialized forum just for this topic.

I'd be mor than wwilling tohelp moderate it.

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Originally Posted by uboat

I thik a resonable alternative solution would be to create a speacialized forum just for this topic.

I'd be mor than wwilling tohelp moderate it.

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I'm completely confused sorry.... solution to what? what topic? :S

Pricey

I don't know if this will help with matter at all, but...are there mods specifically selected to deal with different sub-forums?

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Originally Posted by Ziox

I don't know if this will help with matter at all, but...are there mods specifically selected to deal with different sub-forums?

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LoCo mods manage their LoCo forums and I think there is only one mod who deals with one specific subforum.

Moderating is completely voluntary, and done in his/her free time. We can do as little or as much as we want, where we want to do it. It just so happens that we seem to always manage a near perfect balance of coverage with different mods active in different areas.

Pricey

I think the reason alot of people ask moderators questions privately, on any forum, is that they trust the answers of the moderators are going to be the answer they're looking for, the first time.

When I first got into computers, I lived in a house with a room mate that was in the keylogger/yahoo-cracker crowd, I learned not to trust everyone who tries to help you, alot of times the people who were eager to help only did so because it would enable them to crack into that persons computer in the process.

Hey joebert.

I agree that you should be able to trust moderators, and anyone who wears the ubuntu member mark more than others. However you have to remember that there are people much more technically minded on the forums with more time.

Whenever you are given advice from someone, and told to type someone in a terminal... I strongly advise that you don't don't just blindly copy and paste. Instead check the man pages (man command) in the terminal to understand exactly what the command is doing. If you understand it, then you can trust it, and the person :) (As well as hugely increasing your knowledge)

If moderators are soo busy that they need to tell people not to ask them questions privately, there might need to be more moderators.

I'm sorry if I come off as being rude, but what are supposed to be community leaders telling people not to contact them for any reason is anti-community.

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Originally Posted by joebert

If moderators are soo busy that they need to tell people not to ask them questions privately, there might need to be more moderators.

I'm sorry if I come off as being rude, but what are supposed to be community leaders telling people not to contact them for any reason is anti-community.

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If you have a general technical question, please post it in the relevant sub-forum. There is no guarantee that any single mod has all the answers you will need--if indeed we have any answers for your query at all. But the community is large; collectively, the forums community is infinitely more knowledgeable than I myself could ever hope to be.

PMmed questions are not archived nor searchable, so any questions you ask or answers you might receive will be of no benefit to anyone but you. Certainly that solves your own problem, but I submit it is much more anti-community to get your own answers without giving anyone else the chance to replicate your successful results. "We are who we are because of who we all are together," after all.

PMs to mods or admins are in order if you have a specific issue with the forums themselves.

But please, ask technical questions in the open forums so that everybody can benefit.

We're just mods here, and volunteers at that. We're here to serve the community. If you have a problem that we can help you solve, and thereby also help other people in the community--that's what we're here for. We are not the helpdesk. Don't abuse us like you would the paid help. I, for one, am not being paid nearly enough to put up with that kind of nonsense.

If your concern is the "security" of what you're being told, consider this: any advice your'e given on an open channel--the forums or the IRC channels--is easily reviewed by any other interested user. Outright malicious instructions have a high likelihood of being discovered and reported to you.

But if you PM a "knowledgable" person, what's to prevent him from feeding you something incorrect, or, worse, outright malicious? You wouldn't be be the wiser for it, either--what do you know about it, anyway? And all the while, the exchange is taking place away from the prying eyeballs of the community.

I can't undo the trauma you may have suffered by dealing with malicious users in the past. But you can definitely mitigate it. Deal in the open, on the forums. If you deal in the shadows, in PMs, well, you're on your own.

I agree with what Brunellus said. See the note in my signature, a note which has been here for at least a year.

I'm not looking for your explaination of why you're doing it, I know why you're doing it.
I'm suggesting that there's better ways to deal with people sending private message to moderators than telling everyone to leave the moderators alone.

If the moderators need a break from helping people, maybe it's time to shuffle moderators, or taking the title off of their name so people don't get confused & think the person is someone who is there to help them.

People react to others with decoration differently, telling people not to PM decorated members is like telling people not to feed the trolls.

Frankly you have a moot point, we are moderators and not tech support. We donate our free time to make sure that the forum community runs smoothly by moderating it.

By sending a request by PM to a moderator you not only over burden that one individual but you also limit your chances of receiving helpful advice from the many experiences users here.

Try to view it from a less selfish point of view.

Try to view it from the point of view of a moderator and also from the point of view of the community. If you do that then we won't need 5 pages of discussion as to why it is not a good idea for 300,000 members to send PM's a to a small group of mods, unless you think it is an equally good idea to have 5000 moderators?

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Originally Posted by joebert

I'm suggesting that there's better ways to deal with people sending private message to moderators than telling everyone to leave the moderators alone.

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No-one has said that.

What we are saying is that we don't want tech support questions in PM. These are much better fielded by the community.

I have absolutely no problem with queries about the forums or Ubuntu that a user wishes to keep private/confidential, such as a comment on my moderation, or a question about how the appeals process we have in place on the forums. Even random chatter such as a comment on my beautiful avatar is fine ;)

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Originally Posted by PriceChild

No-one has said that.

What we are saying is that we don't want tech support questions in PM. These are much better fielded by the community.

I have absolutely no problem with queries about the forums or Ubuntu that a user wishes to keep private/confidential, such as a comment on my moderation, or a question about how the appeals process we have in place on the forums. Even random chatter such as a comment on my beautiful avatar is fine ;)

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Well said, Pricey.

A support forum is a support forum.

Private messages should be for private matters.

Support issues are public matters. Public for help from a multitude of users. Public also to help future users who experience the same problems.

I don't even bother answering PMs for support any more. I used to try to explain it to people. Not worth it. Read the sticky.

hm

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Originally Posted by AMT

See, its a good idea to remind people to not PM/email mods and more knowledgable users. And yes, there are a lot of people on. HOWEVER, there are hundreds of post asking for help made a day in the Installation Support forums, and a small number of these posts actually get read.

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Please provide some evidence--any evidence--for this assertion.

I can't find any unread threads. I did a search on unanswered posts. Even ones from nine hours previous had been read anywhere between six and seventy-three times by people.

No thread goes unread here. They may go unanswered (and usually with good reason), but they do not go unread.

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Originally Posted by joebert

I think the reason alot of people ask moderators questions privately, on any forum, is that they trust the answers of the moderators are going to be the answer they're looking for, the first time.

When I first got into computers, I lived in a house with a room mate that was in the keylogger/yahoo-cracker crowd, I learned not to trust everyone who tries to help you, alot of times the people who were eager to help only did so because it would enable them to crack into that persons computer in the process.

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I am a mod but I can make mistakes and my suggestions might not be better (or more secure) than the other suggestions you can get by other users here.

And, of course, the fact that I'm a mod doesn't necessarily imply that I have the answer to your technical questions. On the contrary, if you start a new thread, other users who had your (hardware or software) problem might be able to help you. Remember that anyone can read your thread and warn you if s/he sees something suspicious in the suggestions you are given.

Should you have any doubts on what the suggested commands do, you can always ask for further explanations.

If you use PMs instead of posting in thread, no one will be able to see whether the suggestions you're given will break your computer.

OR, if you really don't trust anyone on this forum then you might as well try Canonical's commercial support:
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid

Okay I do first want to state that this topic should be closed. However, there is one point that I would like to make I'm extremely new to Linux, and I am still learning how to do things in linux. See I'm having problems installing certain things, and I would love to be able to search for those on the forums. If PM's are being sent to the Mods how is that helping us noobs? Like when I was wanting to install Abobe Arobat Reader 8.1 on my system, I could have easily PM'd a mod, but I did the research and put a how to guide in the forum in either the general help or the absolute beginner talk area.

I know that the Mods are only volenteers and moderate this forum in their free time. The Mods have certain things that they do, and one of them I don't think is to receive who knows how many PM's daily for help when if you search on the forums or on google you will find the answer. For those that have a hard time trusting people that give you advice on here or else where if you find close to the exat same answer from different people then that gives more to trust on. I like the job that the mods are doing on here, and I want to personally thank them for volenteering their time to us, and for helping us when they have a chance to.

I personally think that the PM's are for a really quick help on something that can be done in 1 or maybe 2 steps, but if it something such as installing a downloaded .tar file or .rpm file post it to the forum so that everyone can have a chance in helping you out. Sometimes you don't get answered right away, and there could be a post that could take a week or 2 to get answered, but it will get answered just be patient.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by joebert

If moderators are soo busy that they need to tell people not to ask them questions privately, there might need to be more moderators.

I'm sorry if I come off as being rude, but what are supposed to be community leaders telling people not to contact them for any reason is anti-community.

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I don't find that to be the problem at all. There is always a moderator helping me when no one else can. Most active and supportive mods I have ever seen in a community!

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Originally Posted by Fleece Flamingo

I don't find that to be the problem at all. There is always a moderator helping me when no one else can. Most active and supportive mods I have ever seen in a community!

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The mods and admins of this forum are amazing, IMO.

They have a lot to do, and they do a very good job.

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Originally Posted by LaRoza

The mods and admins of this forum are amazing, IMO.

They have a lot to do, and they do a very good job.

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what does "IMO" mean? :)

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Originally Posted by nikoPSK

what does "IMO" mean? :)

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In My Opinion.

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Originally Posted by matthew

In My Opinion.

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why thank you matthew, not that good with acronyms. :)

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Originally Posted by nikoPSK

why thank you matthew, not that good with acronyms. :)

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http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=I

I try to avoid them, but sometimes I use them.

oh thank you...

I Am Not A Lawyer is a horrible acronym:shock:

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Originally Posted by nikoPSK

oh thank you...

I Am Not A Lawyer is a horrible acronym:shock:

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and yet one that I, as a law student, have to break out every so often

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Originally Posted by Brunellus

and yet one that I, as a law student, have to break out every so often

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I often use the "I am not a lawyer" or "I am not a doctor" when posting. I spell it out, I never use an acronym for it.

I am a Criminal Justice graduate (last Thursday, actually) and often have to point out my knowledge of the criminal laws and procedures doesn't mean I can give legal advice.

Since someone brought up the acronym part of life, I just had to step in a add one I just made up after reading this again. Here is my new one: APX - Always Playing Xbox I'm sorry I just had to do that.

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Originally Posted by jfank

Since someone brought up the acronym part of life, I just had to step in a add one I just made up after reading this again. Here is my new one: APX - Always Playing Xbox I'm sorry I just had to do that.

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That is a good one. I just bought one (an XBox) and was playing several games today, including "Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth", which I don't recommend you play before going to bed. (The more you know about the Cthulhu Mythos, the more of an impression it makes)

When I saw this sticky ( I like to read them believe it or not ) I thought LaRoza was slapping my fingers for sending a PM. Mind you it was to change an embarrassing spelling error in the title of a thread I started.

Something I as a "user" here can't do.

So glad to see I'm wrong.

I've probably racked up a lot of points for the "Views" column, with questions I think I might be able to help with and find out; "Gee, I don't have a clue here." And I leave or in somecases "Subscribe" to because I want to know the answer.

Then there's the "wireless", "compiz", "wine" type questions and more that I don't even open. I don't use them, so I certainly can't answer them. I do however PM mods to look at them .... {JOKING!}

I saw where one person said he had nothing answered. Well, I've had some threads go unanswered, so what? ( See above! ) There isn't (I'll bet) a single person who uses the forums that can answer ALL of the questions. It's the luck of the draw folks, as to whether or not someone who has your answer even sees your question.

The help here is GREAT! And all by unpaid volunteers. As is the group of mods and administrators. Unpaid, unsung heroes who do the work 90% of use won't even consider doing for various reasons.

By the way, I've never seen so many mods and administrators all in one thread as I have here. Which only goes to show how bad "PMming and/or IMming mods" must be.

My hat's of to all of you.
Bruce

PS: LaRoza, can I PM you? I'm having problems with my xBox. I don't know how to plug it in and need help!
{ducking}

Well, it havn't been a problem lately (must be the sticky :mrgreen: ), but I don't answer support request from users. Not because I'm mean, but the idea of a question with an answer on the forum benefit alot of people instead of hidden away in PMs. Also the forum is quite busy for the staff, modding, maintaining etc. etc.
...and if I have to have something that looks like a life beside my work,Ubuntu forums and my other projects it's something I'll stick to.

Though question regarding the forums, rules, policy will be answered.

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Originally Posted by Bruce M.

By the way, I've never seen so many mods and administrators all in one thread as I have here.

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so true...:lolflag: if only atleast every thread had a single post from mods[kidding]

by the way maybe the mods and admins should not be listed in the bottom of the page!!! MAKES U GUYS AN EASIER TARGET:lolflag:

On average I probably get 1-2 PM's a day asking me for help, I appreciate the moderators addressing the issue, thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by macvr

by the way maybe the mods and admins should not be listed in the bottom of the page!!! MAKES U GUYS AN EASIER TARGET:lolflag:

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Might be a good idea, (But then i am not a mod...)

I don't mind being listed there. At least that way if there's a problem (say - PM Spam) you can easily find a mod to forward it to.

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Originally Posted by Joeb454

I don't mind being listed there. At least that way if there's a problem (say - PM Spam) you can easily find a mod to forward it to.

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That is one reason my name is black...

I still get a lot of requests like that though.

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Originally Posted by LaRoza

That is one reason my name is black...

I still get a lot of requests like that though.

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I feel for you...

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Originally Posted by LaRoza

That is one reason my name is black...

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It also makes you stand out more in the list

Locked by request