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Continuing changes to Tutorials and Tips - please read
Update 7/3/2012:
1. As we are progressing in the transition some people choose to move their tutorials out of ubuntu space, to various third party web sites (blogs, web pages, etc). We have no problem with this decision, however, posting a link back to the fourms, without permission from staff, is considered spam.
2. Staff is here to help you transition tutorials to the wiki, not to maintain abandoned tutorials or to assist moving out of Ubuntu namespace (forums/wiki/askubuntu).
3. We are going to close this section to new tutorials now. Threads in this section are for threads discussing wiki pages, coordinating effort, discussing changes, asking for help with technical information or wiki formatting, etc.
Update bodhi.zazen:
1. There is a script available to help convert forums posts to wiki syntax.
See bodhi.zazen's script
Please send any suggestions for improvements or bugs with the script to bodhi.zazen in PM on the forums or on #ubuntuforums.
You can also discuss the project on #ubuntu-wiki
2. There is some confusion about the wiki.
help.ubuntu.com is for documentation
wiki.ubuntu.com is for teams and projects
The tutorials forum has been an invaluable resource for the ubuntu community, however, as the community has grown, the time has come to move this activity to the community wiki.
Advantage wiki: Community maintained, peer reviewed, and easier to maintain.
Disadvantage forums posts: Limited peer review and maintenance (only forums staff and the Original Poster).
This does not mean that the tutorial forum will be completely closed.
We propose that:
- Authors post tutorials on the Ubuntu community wiki. Before starting a new page, search the wiki to see if your content exists and/or simply needs to be updated.
- The community assists in both migrating the forums tutorials and maintaining the wiki.
- This section should be used to support specific wiki pages. Support questions should be migrated to the support sections.
- Collaboration with the community. Other projects (outside the forums) use the wiki documentation.
As far as outdated information is concerned, we would like to archive old threads as either they fall inactive or become outdated. Please report outdated tutorials using the standard method - Report Abuse button.
The wiki that will be home to these new creations will be the https://help.ubuntu.com/community not the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ site
Help for using wiki to create new pages can be found here -
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ForumWikiTeam
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I like this idea very much. The search functions built into the wiki are far superior to the forums, for one. I think it makes a lot of sense to focus all tutorial effort in one place, rather than try to do the same thing twice.
This section would make a great support area for the wiki, for new users to post "I didn't understand section foo in the bar wiki page" and receive clarification, also for wiki discussion and critique.
+1
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
+1*\infty on this one!
I hope very soon to return to full force contributions to the Wiki. BTW I see some discussion about the move to SuMO on the ubuntu-doc mailing list (I haven't really followed it) - courtesy Michael Hall et al; if that materializes, it shall be even more awesome!
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Just to be clear, even though it is included on the Documentation Team wiki,the community documentation area is help.ubuntu.com/community
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cprofitt
Just to be clear, even though it is included on the
Documentation Team wiki,the community documentation area is help.ubuntu.com/community
Thanks for clarifying that - had a chat on IRC with coalwater - I was fairly positive that the help.ubuntu.com area was the right one.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
forestpiskie
The tutorials forum has been an invaluable resource for the ubuntu community, however, as the community has grown, the time has come to move this activity to the community wiki.
Unless this wiki can be read through my RSS Reader on my mobile phone then it's useless to me.
What a shame... I love reading these Tips & Tricks articles...oh well, how's the saying go; all good things come to an end.
I guess I'll have to move to Howtoforge...
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
This is good news. Hope this is very soon. Looking forward for this!
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I find the wikis confusing and disorientating when searching, and often end up down the rabbit hole. At least with the forum you know where you are and search is straight forward.
I believe it will be a great loss to the forum if Tutorials and Tips were to go, and all that will happen is that good tutorials and tips will be "lost" in other threads or to other sites (including the wikis)
I am a change "agent", but in this case I think we are wrong to change too much.
Ubuntuforums provides everything in one place, that's why it is the number one forum on the interweb.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
As someone who has spent many years building guides in the Tutorials and Tips section of these Forums I would be deeply disappointed to see this section changed in this way. I would echo Jose Catre-Vandis's statement:
Quote:
Ubuntuforums provides everything in one place, that's why it is the number one forum on the interweb.
Removal of the heart of Tutorials and Tips would significantly lessen the value of these great Forums.....
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Although I do recognize the advantages of a wiki I must agree with Jose and Andrew. Many of the tutorials and tips fill a specific niche, and the format of a forum seems to fit them more appropriately. I think it's also an easier method to get help with the particular topic.
Also, what's the plan for existing, active posts within Tutorials and Tips? The OP indicates that they are to be migrated to the wiki with assistance of the community. I'm not really sure what that means.
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Hmmmmmmm........ interesting times ahead:
Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1949027
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
When are these changes going to be implemented? This is a time for me to evaluate how many of my guides I will continue to support and in what location I will place them, some considerable work is involved with this so a timetable of change would be appreciated.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FakeOutdoorsman
Although I do recognize the advantages of a wiki I must agree with Jose and Andrew. Many of the tutorials and tips fill a specific niche, and the format of a forum seems to fit them more appropriately. I think it's also an easier method to get help with the particular topic.
Also, what's the plan for existing, active posts within Tutorials and Tips? The OP indicates that they are to be migrated to the wiki with assistance of the community. I'm not really sure what that means.
i spent a little time last week in the wiki looking it over, there is some good info & a lot of old stuff. Overall it's quite impersonal & just doesn't have the feel of Tutorials and Tips, a bit of a sinkhole
Anyway saw this, makes one wonder if there is anywhere close to the 'workforce' to transfer the even part of this sub forum in a useful manner or at all (1st. listing is interesting...
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Documentatio...s/Forum/import
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc4man
* I'm gathering that if the wiki deal proceeds that a link to & support of can remain here, ect.
I really am having a bit of troubling dealing with the idea of a split guide: half on an Ubuntu wiki and half here. Another option I am considering is to place both the MPlayer guide and the vlc guide on my personal website and respond to personal email from the site. This would then be properly indexed by Google (as these Forums and the Ubuntu Wiki tend not to be) and open the guides up to a bigger audience. This would tend to lose the 'Tutorials and Tips' atmosphere but I suspect that the current atmosphere of nurture and support will be eroded by coming changes anyway. The option is always there for another person to place this guide on the Ubuntu Wiki anyway, and hopefully keep it up to date as well!
Working on the web pages anyway at the moment just to keep my options open....
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Definitely not a fan of this proposed change, if people want to put some of these guides there fine, but not at the expense of here
(I'm gathering that if someone else wants to add another's guide that permission can be refused?
*plus for some fairly specific guides like your mplayer, vlc, ect., while likely not to happen in a negative sense the fact that anyone can edit them..
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc4man
(I'm gathering that if someone else wants to add another's guide that permission can be refused?
The process is not clear at the moment but the information in my own guides does not belong to me and I am more than happy that others do whatever they want with it. This includes publishing to wikis, using portions for their own guides, publishing on blogs etc, but I suspect it will not be me making the move to a wiki with this guide. Long live Open Source :). My own plaintive wish is that the existing format in Tutorials and Tips would be left as it is, it has been very, very successful...
Quote:
*plus for some fairly specific guides like your mplayer, vlc, ect., while likely not to happen in a negative sense the fact that anyone can edit them..
Perhaps coming back from a 10 day meditation retreat has mellowed me a little :). I am preserving my own work on my personal website so my own enjoyment of building vlc will continue and I will be the sole author and editor of this work at least, and hopefully others will benefit from this work. Initial work on the page is almost done and I will probably upload this evening....
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew.46
The process is not clear at the moment but the information in my own guides does not belong to me and I am more than happy that others do whatever they want with it.
I wouldn't have thought you would - was only curious because on the 'import' page I saw on the wiki only a handful of previously suggested guides show permission granted & even less were ever done
(maybe that import page is a no longer used avenue.
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc4man
I wouldn't have thought you would - was only curious because on the 'import' page I saw on the wiki only a handful of previously suggested guides show permission granted & even less were ever done
(maybe that import page is a no longer used avenue.
Indeed there are some interesting times ahead :). Anyway first version of the vlc page is online now, feel free to be the first visitor!!
Howto: Build the development version of vlc under Ubuntu
http://www.andrews-corner.org/vlc.html
Needs a little tidying up yet but the html is pretty solid as I am fussy about such things :). I will scoop up the MPlayer page as well and then think about things a little more.....
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I knew this day would come eventually --- a bummer for sure. Who uses the Ubuntu wiki site -- I surely don't, although I know in Europe and other international countries the wiki is used a lot. I've contributed many guides to the Tutorials and Tips section over the years. Likely with this move to the wiki section, my contributions to Tutorials and Tips are going to come to a grinding halt. I make contributions as a volunteer donating my time to look up a lot of information with each guide. I'm very comfortable with the formatting and editing required on the forum. Unfortunately since I'm not in college anymore (that was year's ago), I really don't have time to dedicate to how to learn how to create and edit and maintain a wiki. I wish the staff would allow multiple ways for users to contribute to guides (through the forums, wiki, and other sites) rather than shutting down one of the major ways users can contribute.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Change is never easy, but maintaining this section of the forums is nostalgic and unrealistic for the reasons stated in the first post.
If you do not like the wiki, I remind you of 2 issues:
First it is community maintained - go out and improve it rather then complain about it here.
Second, it is sort of self perpetuating - You (we) need to use the wiki to have the pages indexed in search engines.
I agree it is sort of a loss for these Forums, but a larger gain for the community.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew.46
When are these changes going to be implemented? This is a time for me to evaluate how many of my guides I will continue to support and in what location I will place them, some considerable work is involved with this so a timetable of change would be appreciated.
We have not set down a time table for the migration process.
We envision migrating the documentation to the wiki, and keeping this section open for support.
If you would like to discuss this issue, please show up to the FC meetings. This issue remains on the agenda.
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/...-27-19.07.html
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
You are also welcome to join the forms irc channel, #ubuntuforums
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntuforums
Forums staff and FC members and interested community members in general are there to listen to your feedback.
I also suggest you join the documentation team
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki
irc #ubuntu-doc
They may be willing to help.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Can I request that any howtos/tips I have done, for the forum, remain on the forum, so they are moved to the relevant section of the forum (e.g. if it was a Firefox tip could be moved to Desktop Environments)?
Can I request that any howtos or tips I have provided are not transferred to the wiki, or is the information provided no longer "mine"?
Seems like a huge amount of work, when things could just be left as they are, and T&T locked off to new threads?
This all sounds a bit "militant" of me, but just asking what others may be thinking?
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jose Catre-Vandis
Can I request that any howtos/tips I have done, for the forum, remain on the forum, so they are moved to the relevant section of the forum (e.g. if it was a Firefox tip could be moved to Desktop Environments)?
Can I request that any howtos or tips I have provided are not transferred to the wiki, or is the information provided no longer "mine"?
Seems like a huge amount of work, when things could just be left as they are, and T&T locked off to new threads?
This all sounds a bit "militant" of me, but just asking what others may be thinking?
It only seems "militant" if you have not been paying attention for the last 2 + years. This issue has come up many times on the forums and many of the staff have been advocating this change for years.
The change is that we are finally changing the policy.
The FC has an agenda
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
And this issue has been discussed
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/...-27-19.07.html
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/....log.html#l-44
Anything you posted is covered under the http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
The FC is discussing how to manage archives and this section as we speak and if you are interested you are welcome to participate.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I would say it would be better to keep the tutorials here in a different way. Every time a forum member wants to write a new tutorial or do a major update to an existing one, the person can start a thread with a link to the wiki page here. This will allow others to use this sub forum in a similar way and give feedback on what they think about the wiki. Not an ideal solution I know, but if the software of the wiki and forum could be somehow integrated (like I have seen other message boards do) that would be even better.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jose Catre-Vandis
Can I request that any howtos/tips I have done, for the forum, remain on the forum, so they are moved to the relevant section of the forum (e.g. if it was a Firefox tip could be moved to Desktop Environments)?
You can request it, but I do not see a firefox tutorial as DE support.
Quote:
Can I request that any howtos or tips I have provided are not transferred to the wiki, or is the information provided no longer "mine"?
As I said above, anything posted here is covered by the http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ which I think answers your question.
Quote:
Seems like a huge amount of work, when things could just be left as they are, and T&T locked off to new threads?
Not sure what you are asking here. We are asking the forums community to start using the wiki for documentation.
If you do not move your tutorials over to the wiki, they will likely at some time be archived. We are not deleting the information, but the information will at some point become ro , and eventually be unmaintained and outdated.
FC is currently discussing the time frame for these changes.
The reasons for this change are stated in the first post. We are integrating into the community and the advantages of migrating to the wiki outweigh the disadvantages of maintaining this section as is.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kio_http
I would say it would be better to keep the tutorials here in a different way. Every time a forum member wants to write a new tutorial or do a major update to an existing one, the person can start a thread with a link to the wiki page here. This will allow others to use this sub forum in a similar way and give feedback on what they think about the wiki. Not an ideal solution I know, but if the software of the wiki and forum could be somehow integrated (like I have seen other message boards do) that would be even better.
What you envision is what we have stated. Documentation goes on wik, discussion of wiki pages goes here, and support goes in the support sections.
From the very first post:
Quote:
This section should be used to support specific wiki pages. Support questions should be migrated to the support sections.
Sounds as if you are in agreement with our proposal, so I am not sure what you are asking.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
The links at the end of each /ForumCouncilAgenda agenda item are protected I can't see them which makes it difficult to follow.
I am an active forum member ( a forum of 1.6m members - is that a community?) asking for and providing help on using Ubuntu/Xubuntu and apps.
Can you answer my three questions please ? I promise to stop after that :) [EDIT I see you did :) ]
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jose Catre-Vandis
The links at the end of each /ForumCouncilAgenda agenda item are protected I can't see them which makes it difficult to follow.
Those links on the agenda are for staff discussion.
Community discussion is up to you. We have a full time IRC channel, or you can start a thread and link it to the agenda. Or you can link this one if you wish.
See also : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1954664
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
What you envision is what we have stated. Documentation goes on wik, discussion of wiki pages goes here, and support goes in the support sections.
From the very first post:
Sounds as if you are in agreement with our proposal, so I am not sure what you are asking.
Correct, I like the proposal. However although it is far fetched, it would be nice if the wiki and forum software could be integrated in someway to give the forum users a similar experience to what is there now.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kio_http
Correct, I like the proposal. However although it is far fetched, it would be nice if the wiki and forum software could be integrated in someway to give the forum users a similar experience to what is there now.
Closest thing I know to that would be askubuntu.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553...onfigure-unity
I do not know of any VB plugins to accomplish the sort of integration you suggest.
Mixing support questions and documentation has disadvantages, as askubuntu grows, they have to manage duplicates.
http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/...buntu-clean-up
Bottom line, it takes community effort to maintain documentation and Vb is not conductive to collaboration as only the OP can make edits.
Take for example the gma500
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1229345
over 5,000 posts , over a million views, tons of technical information.
Best summarized on a wiki page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupp...eoCardsPoulsbo
It is not an unrealistic plan , most communities maintain a wiki, Arch for example.
In addition, we have many great wiki pages, the community grub2 page we have is one of the best on the internet on grub2.
The forums sort of grew up isolated from the rest of the community and this is part of integrating into the community and the vast majority of the community, both inside and outside the forums, supports moving this sort of documentation from forums to wiki.
It is not *that* hard to learn wiki markup and mentoring is available.
It is sad to see many contributing members in this section unwilling to move forwards, but the benefits of change clearly outweigh the disadvantages of the system as it is.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
Have a look at this vb community, the forum software is one of the best vb configurations I have ever seen. Their articles function is actually a wiki. I'm not actually on this community but it looks well made.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kio_http
Have a look at
this vb community, the forum software is one of the best vb configurations I have ever seen. Their articles function is actually a wiki. I'm not actually on this community but it looks well made.
Again, sounds as if we are on the same page, integration. How do we move from an isolated forums community into a cohesive whole.
You will need to work with the Ubuntu community on such an integration, right now each aspect is quite isolated and, as you can see, some are unwilling to integrate ...
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jose Catre-Vandis
Can I request that any howtos or tips I have provided are not transferred to the wiki...
I was wondering the same thing despite the CC license. If this change goes through I will move the FFmpeg compile guide to the FFmpeg wiki. Not because of my resistance to this change, but because I believe it would be a more appropriate place for that particular guide (one of my goals is to have my distro compile guides all in one place). I don't want to see two versions of the same guide on two wikis. That could be confusing to users and I can only help maintain one.
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Re: Howto: Build the svn MPlayer under the latest release version of Ubuntu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc4man
...only a handful of previously suggested guides show permission granted & even less were ever done
Looks like mine is listed there. I recall someone asking for permission for them to move the guide to the wiki and have me delete it from the forum. I said no because of the same reason I disliked this current proposal: lack of effective communication. In my opinion the wiki just doesn't offer the same intimate user support as a well-maintained and up-to-date guide on this particular forum. The information and the support are on one easy to access place for both the author and the users.
I doubt the effectiveness of split guides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew.46
Indeed there are some interesting times ahead :). Anyway first version of the vlc page is online now, feel free to be the first visitor!!
Howto: Build the development version of vlc under Ubuntu
http://www.andrews-corner.org/vlc.html
Looks good! Now I have to do the same thing, but I still have to do taxes and I'm in the middle of an office move.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I merged 7 posts on other threads into this thread. Lets try to keep the discussion in one place please ;)
As I said before , you are all welcome to discuss how we should move forward, or maintain your own pages, I have a set I maintain as well.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
You will need to work with the Ubuntu community on such an integration, right now each aspect is quite isolated and, as you can see, some are unwilling to integrate ...
I can appreciate the eventual goal of this change and I know we would all like to see the Ubuntu Wiki as a better and more utilised section of the whole Ubuntu experience. But I can also see that while this would be positive change for the Ubuntu Wiki so much more would be lost with the fragmentation experienced by the large number of skilled and hardworking people who have made 'Tutorials and Tips' such a great place. Please do not lessen the value of this great part of the Ubuntu experience, please leave Tutorials and Tips as it is.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew.46
I can appreciate the eventual goal of this change and I know we would all like to see the Ubuntu Wiki as a better and more utilised section of the whole Ubuntu experience. But I can also see that while this would be positive change for the Ubuntu Wiki so much more would be lost with the fragmentation experienced by the large number of skilled and hardworking people who have made 'Tutorials and Tips' such a great place. Please do not lessen the value of this great part of the Ubuntu experience, please leave Tutorials and Tips as it is.
It is not as if we are closing and deleting this section tomorrow.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
What you envision is what we have stated. Documentation goes on wik, discussion of wiki pages goes here, and support goes in the support sections.
That sounds ok though there may be a fine line between discussion & support in some cases.
So to put simply - A future thread here would be something like ??
================================================== ===
"How-to Blah, Blah"
link to wiki page
================================================== =========
Then posts in that thread can be about the contents of that wiki page but not support of the use of the contents of that wiki page
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc4man
That sounds ok though there may be a fine line between discussion & support in some cases.
Yes, it can be a fine line , same with current tutorials though.
Quote:
So to put simply - A future thread here would be something like ??
================================================== ===
"How-to Blah, Blah"
link to wiki page
================================================== =========
Then posts in that thread can be about the contents of that wiki page but not support of the use of the contents of that wiki page
That is what we would like to try. Probably be some bumps in the road.
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
What's wrong with being a isolated forums community? And yes I know Arch has a wiki -- its great -- but god help you if you ask a basic question that has been covered in the wiki -- you get your head ripped off over there!
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Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
edit
NEW SCRIPT
Disregard video as there is going to be a new one
THIS IS IN ALPHA
edit
NEW VIDEO
Here is a Video on how to use it*
VIDEO TUTORIAL ON ALPHA SAMPLE
Just a couple of thoughts
having a html to moin markdown converter would solve alot of all of this not all but some. Here is a alpha script that maybe we could build upon.
Code:
#!/usr/bin/env bash
##this is a script to change the markdown from non moin to moin
# the purpose of this script is to make it easy to take threads from the Ubuntu forums tutorial section and make them into wiki pages real #fast There is a Video Tutorial on how to use this and why this is such a good idea. I would like to thanks all the Ubuntu Forums staff #members and the Ubuntu documentation team for bringing this idea to light thanks Joseph
#This script is licenced under the GPL V3 please see documentation located here
#####################################################################################
#________________________People that are Awesome___________________a.k.a helped out #
# #
#_________________________________Coming Soon,______________________________________#
# #
#####################################################################################
#####################################################################################
# #
#_____________________________________VAR___________________________________________#
# #
#####################################################################################
MYUTUBE=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynrIO9tJcVQ
enter="Please Press Enter to Continue"
ubforums=http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11827748#post11827748
ER="Something went wrong please contact someone here."
#####################################################################################
# #
#_____________________________Installing Dependencys________________________________#
# #
#Line 19--32 you sould comment put after frist time riunning this script #
#####################################################################################
#clear
#echo "This script will now install Dialog and the wiki converter."
#echo "Please make sure that you have watched the tutorial located here"
#echo "$MYUTUBE"
#sleep 8
#sudo apt-get --yes install dialog markdown libhtml-wikiconverter-moinmoin-perl
#dialog --create-rc ~/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|use_shadow = OFF|use_shadow = ON|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|use_colors = OFF|use_colors = ON|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|screen_color = (CYAN,BLUE,ON)|screen_color = (CYAN,MAGENTA,ON)|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|button_active_color = (WHITE,BLUE,ON)|button_active_color = (WHITE,MAGENTA,ON)|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|title_color = (BLUE,WHITE,ON)|title_color = (MAGENTA,WHITE,ON)|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|button_label_active_color = (YELLOW,BLUE,ON)|button_label_active_color = (WHITE,MAGENTA,ON)|g' /home/$USER/.dialogrc
#sed -i 's|tag_key_selected_color = (RED,BLUE,ON)|tag_key_selected_color = (RED,MAGENTA,ON)|g' /home/$USER/.dialogr
#####################################################################################
# #
#________________________________MAKING A SANDBOX___________________________________#
# #
#####################################################################################
#
#echo "please wait "
#function sandbox(){
#if mkdir ~/Desktop/wikiSandbox ; then
# echo "Was able" >~/.sandbox.txt
#else
# echo "Was Not able Id the directory allreay there ? " >~/.sandbox.txt
#fi
#}
#sandbox
#sandbox1=$(<~/.sandbox.txt)
#dialog --msgbox "This script $sandbox1 to make A folder under ~/Desktop/wikiSandbox/ This is where you will want to work out of. Once again Please Make sure that you have watched the tutorial located $MYUTUBE . If you got was not able to create folder please go to $ubforums and file a compaint \n $enter " 17 90
#####################################################################################
# #
#_________________________________CHANGING THE CODE_________________________________#
# #
#####################################################################################
echo "please wait "
function funky1(){
echo "Hello We are going to start out by gathering"
echo "some information about the file "
echo "Please Enter your File name and location "
echo "Example /home/joseph/Desktop/wikiSandbox/kdetut.txt "
echo "Then $enter "
}
funky1a=$(funky1)
touch ~/.temppassword
asd=$(tempfile 2>~/.temppassword)
dialog --backtitle "Files that you want to Change" --inputbox "\n ${funky1a} \n " 17 90 2>~/.temppassword
retval=$?
yourfile=$(<~/.temppassword)
###############################################################
#_____________________Making Backup___________________________#
cp $yourfile $yourfile.old
#_____________________________________________________________#
# #
###############################################################
#function sedaroo(){
#if
html2wiki --dialect MoinMoin $yourfile > $yourfile.new
sed -i 's|\[\[BR\]\]|\n|g' $yourfile.new
#shopt -s extglob; while read -r line; do [[ $line = @(*.png|*.jpeg|*.gif) ]] && printf "%s\n" {{"$line"}}; done < $yourfile.new
sed -r 's/[^[:space:]]*\.(jpg|jpeg|png|gif)/{{&}}/g' $yourfile.new > $yourfile
#; then
# echo "The other mark down has now been changed to fit the Ubuntu markdown" >~/.sedaroo.txt
#else
# echo "$ER please write us at $ubforums" >~/.sedaroo.txt
#fi
#}
#sedaroo
#sedaroo1=$(<~/.sedaroo.txt)
#dialog --msgbox "sucsess $sedaroo1 \n $enter" 17 90
touch ~/.header
touch ~/.header1
header(){
cat
} > ~/.header <<EOF
##title Community Documentation
## If you want to get involved with editing and organizing the Wiki, please visit
## [[DocumentationTeam]] and [[WikiGuide]].
## If you want to edit this page, please:
## 1. consider making changes to one of the pages linked from here
## (this page is designed to remain mostly static) " >>~/.header
## 2. make changes you feel are necessary to [[/UserDocumentation/PageDiscussion/Draft]]
## 2. subscribe to the ubuntu-doc mailing list:
## http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
## 2. post a message to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
## describe your changes and why they're necessary
## 3. wait for a member of the documentation to make your changes live
## Aggressive tags are a form of vandalism and are discouraged.
## <<Include(Tag/ContentCleanup)>>
## <<Include(Tag/StyleCleanup)>>
## <<Include(Tag/NeedsExpansion)>>
#<<TableOfContents>>
EOF
header
header1=$(<~/.header)
echo " $header1 " > ~/.header1
cat $yourfile >> ~/.header1
cat ~/.header1 > $yourfile
#ed "$yourfile" << 'EOF' \ 1i \ \ $header1 \ \n \. \ w \ q \ 'EOF' ;
#ed "$" << 'EOF' \ #i \ [foo] \ . \ w \ q \ EOF
#####################################################################################
# #
#________________________________CLEANING UP________________________________________#
# #
#####################################################################################
rm -f ~/.header1
rm -f ~/.header
rm -f ~/Desktop/wikiSandbox/$yourfile.new
rm -f ~/.sandbox.txt ;
rm -f ~/.temppassword ;
rm -f ~/.sedaroo.txt
clear
dialog --msgbox "Congrates you New file is located the same place that you entered above there is also a back up called yourfilen.txt.old Please keep in mind that this script is in alpha and is going to be made alot different. But this is the idea. Thansk for helping with the Ubuntu community " 12 90
clear
Let me know what you all think
joseph
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I wanted to say that I think it is a reasonable proposal to have the Ubuntu Forums integrate more with other areas of the community. The way in which I envision the Tutorials and Tips working is:
A. Original Tutorial is now made a wiki page (or an existing wiki page is updated)
B. A thread is created in the forums that point at the wiki page and discussion around the wiki page happen on the forums.
C. The wiki page has a link to the thread that is dedicated to discussing it.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
An update on current activity ...
For those who use IRC, we are discussing how to manage these changes in #ubuntu-wiki
Please feel free to join
It would be great to have a few people from the forums interested in maintaining the community wiki join the team. A few hours a week from 5-10 people would go a long ways.
We are also working on a script that will automate much of the process.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
For those who use IRC, we are discussing how to manage these changes in #ubuntu-wiki
Please feel free to join
For those that have not used irc before you can use this link
ubuntu-wiki webchat
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I'm finding the help.ubuntu.com/community website/server very flaky. Tried multiple times yesterday to logon - couldn't. Then today it worked first time, but after editing and hitting Preview a few times the server failed - and I lost all edits. It makes you appreciate the speed and reliability of ubuntuforums.
So be warned: copy work in progress before hitting Preview.
Also something I don't like is that it publicly displays your IP address. It makes sense to record it privately - maybe - but it doesn't make sense to publicly display this. e.g. as a comparison, if you look at wikipedia.org's policy, they only do it for users who aren't logged in:
Quote:
When a page is edited by a logged-in editor, the server confidentially stores related IP information for a limited period of time. This information is automatically deleted after a set period. For editors who do not log in, the IP address used is publicly and permanently credited as the author of the edit. It may be possible for a third party to identify the author from this IP address in conjunction with other information available. Logging in with a registered username allows for better preservation of privacy.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Since my last post I've found the server very responsive (it was just waiting for me to complain).
Also apparently the Preview button does save your changes, provided you start editing the page normally again (it's supposed to warn you that you have pending changes), as long as you don't hit the preview button again.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
The ubuntu services (help, wiki, LP, forums, ask, etc) can get hammered 1 week prior and 2 weeks after a release. Release day tends to be worse.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Tutorials are indeed directed towards specific niches and forums have always been the most appropriate channel, nonetheless this wiki idea has its benefits that can't be ignored, like the better functions and support.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
So it's been 2 months now, luckily this was never expected to be a sprint - more a marathon ;)
Plenty has been going in behind the scenes and much work has been done in trying to foresee the future and it's requirements.
The tool picks up the first post and creates a text file with the necessary wiki code - still needs some work afterwards to finish the wiki - but it is a painless experience.
There is now a wiki page for the team - that's here
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ForumWikiTeam
We've had some guinea pigs - these have all come from tutorial threads
/community/UnityLaunchersAndDesktopFiles
/community/Unity-ReplaceDodgeWindowsBehavior
/community/MigrateWubi
/community/SambaActiveDirectoryDomainIntegrationScript
/community/Bindfs-SharedDirectoryLocalUsers
Thanks to those people :)
Thanks also to - in no particular order
cortman
hannie
josephmills
wildmanne39
bodhi.zazen
MG&TL
for the hard work and time they have put in.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I still have very substantial concerns about the direction that Tutorials and Tips is going but I have in the past and more recently converted many of my tutorials to wiki format since this is the way things are going:
MuttAndGmail
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MuttAndGmail
Leafnode2
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Leafnode2
cdrdao
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/cdrdao
slrn
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/slrn
find
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/find
MPlayerTips
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MPlayerTips
Several other guides have been moved to my personal website as they were not really suitable for the wiki format.
I have university holidays coming up soon so I will be available to covert a few more T&T guides over, not my own as this is now done, although I prefer to do this by hand rather than with a semi-automated tool. Talk about this on #ubuntuforums perhaps....
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I think the Wiki format is very friendly and wonderful for beginners.
A lot of hard work clearly went into both the presentation and editing.
I do have a couple of concerns, and they mainly involve non-beginners finding information quickly in the Wiki format.
If I'm looking for something relatively specific (some question involving streaming, transcoding or similar), I may be able to find something relevant in the wiki documentation, but there doesn't appear to be a substantive place to have the active discussions which bring that documentation to life and also serve to highlight those places the documentation can be expanded.
The level of clicks required to get to information related to a specific area of interest also seems to have increased from the forum format. I think this may be slightly inevitable in a wiki-style format, but maybe it's something to keep in mind.
For example, if I'm looking for a wiki section containing articles related to transcoding, how many clicks does it take to get there from the front page?
If I'm someone who doesn't know what transcoding is, yet I'm searching for that kind of functionality, minimizing the clicks it takes to access that level of granularity in the documentation is going to ensure more people get the documentation they need.
Anyway, those are just a couple of small points. I'm quite impressed with how polished the wiki is at this point.
Thanks again to all those who've maintained/expanded/evolved the documentation over the years!
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I noticed today that I no longer have the option to Edit posts on my Howtos i.e. the Edit button is missing. I've looked on other threads outside of Tutorials & Tips and the Edit button is still there on all my posts, so it seems an intentional change to T&T.
If this is the case, then I suggest the Howto thread be totally closed and a line added at the top to indicate it is stale - so users know to use the wiki site only. But as it stands, it appears that you can make new posts in the howtos (indicating they are still active/current).
Thanks
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Yes, we put a 24 hour limit on editing posts. We may relax that a bit, but most users do not need to edit posts after 24 hours.
This sort of affects stickies and tutorials the most. We can grant editing privileges if needed (pm an admin to arrange a time) and we can see how it all settles out.
My 2c is to use wiki, as outlined multiple times in this thread.
Comments - add them to the FC agenda
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/
If you add an item to the agenda, please show up at the meeting.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
I should add, we have a whole team of forums members available to help migrate to and support the wiki effort. We even wrote a script to transcribe forms posts to wiki format.
Help is available, all you have to do is ask.
Otherwise, the wiki team is transcribing the information and working in conjunction with documentation team.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bodhi.zazen
Yes, we put a 24 hour limit on editing posts. We may relax that a bit, but most users do not need to edit posts after 24 hours.
This sort of affects stickies and tutorials the most. We can grant editing privileges if needed (pm an admin to arrange a time) and we can see how it all settles out.
My 2c is to use wiki, as outlined multiple times in this thread.
Comments - add them to the FC agenda
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/
If you add an item to the agenda, please show up at the meeting.
I am totally supportive of the move to the wiki's. Since the Howto's in question have already been moved, I've flagged them to be Closed so that there's no ambiguity whether they are current or not.
Thanks
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
The pages I have seen seem to 'dead-end' at the page. Most other wiki sites that I have seen and used typically have a list of categories at the bottom that the page is associated with...which allow people to click on to see related articles.
Even though I see a list of All Categories, there seems to be a disconnect when you end up on a wiki page.
For example, when you look at this wiki page, you can see a list of related pages that the author has added to make it easier to find page which are directly related but even if the author did not include those links, they could all be found (along with other pages created even after that article) by clicking the "Modeling" or "Blender" category links at the very bottom.
It would be nice if each-and-every article contains one or more ubuntu-specific categories such as the desktop, server, xubuntu, kubuntu, etc. as well as what version(s) that apply as a basis for all articles. Being able to list all articles related to the following categories could be extremely useful to somebody interested in what was written for them: Ubuntu, Server, Version 12. If this wiki can eventually do this, it would be an amazing tool for finding "information" rather than just a collection of data.
How would the following articles be related and found on the wiki?
How to Install and Configure Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
How to Install and Configure a Nagios monitoring server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
How to Install and Configure a MySQL server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
How to Install and Configure a MediaWiki server (prerequisite is the server install and MySQL pages above)
The titles of wiki pages are usually the single most important aspect to creating a page along with correctly associating the content to the proper categories. How would one go about picking the best title for a wiki article? The above examples can be worded in many different ways.
Since the above tutorials are a bit niche, how can that be reflected and differentiated from other similar articles? Examples: Nagios is compiled from source rather than from the Ubuntu distro in order to have the latest version and absolute control where everything is located. MediaWiki is compiled from source rather than the Ubuntu distro mainly to make use of a separate dedicated MySQL server...unlike many other tutorials (and even the Ubuntu distro) that expect everything to be on the same server.
I might be missing the boat since I am not entirely familiar with the wiki but the articles seem to disappear into a hole (reach a dead end)
I saw the earlier post about the vb wiki and it presents a LOT of information in an organized way. However, I think that wiki app is a highly customized front-end which happens to use a wiki back-end. Would probably be difficult to reproduce with a pure wiki site. But then again, the Ubuntu wiki site also seems to be a customized front-end using a wiki back-end.
Other wiki sites I have used that make good use of categories and organizing pages so they can be found easily are The Nexus Wiki and The Elder Scrolls CS Wiki. I mention those sites not only because I am familiar with them but they also represent the kind of structure for most wiki sites I have used which seem to be good repositories of information...not just collections of data.
As for discussions of the wiki pages, I thought the "discussions" or "talk" page associated with a wiki page was the perfect place to discuss issues/questions about the article...but I do not see that feature on the Ubuntu wiki. Here is an example of a "talk" page for a wiki article.
Other members brought up concerns with community wiki pages regarding the loss of control over the article. Obviously, when a tutorial can be edited by anyone, there can be problems in the direction or intent of an article being changed from edits but that can be controlled to an extent by being clear as to "why" things are the way they are in the article as well as "subscribing" to the article to be informed whenever a change is made...which you can then review to see if you agree with it or not and thus make additional changes or revert the change and mention the issue on a talk page (if there is one).
When looking at any history page on the wiki, I can hover my mouse over a member's name and it will show the IP of that member in the tooltip. Please tell me this is an unintended bug and not something that the Ubuntu wiki team considers as information that should be shared with the general public. It seems to be in direct contrast to the general policies related to PC security.
LHammonds
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LHammonds
The pages I have seen seem to 'dead-end' at the page. Most other wiki sites that I have seen and used typically have a list of categories at the bottom that the page is associated with...which allow people to click on to see related articles.
Even though I see a list of
All Categories, there seems to be a disconnect when you end up on a wiki page.
For example, when you look at
this wiki page, you can see a list of related pages that the author has added to make it easier to find page which are directly related but even if the author did not include those links, they could all be found (along with other pages created even after that article) by clicking the "
Modeling" or "
Blender" category links at the very bottom.
It would be nice if each-and-every article contains one or more ubuntu-specific categories such as the desktop, server, xubuntu, kubuntu, etc. as well as what version(s) that apply as a basis for all articles. Being able to list all articles related to the following categories could be extremely useful to somebody interested in what was written for them: Ubuntu, Server, Version 12. If this wiki can eventually do this, it would be an amazing tool for finding "information" rather than just a collection of data.
How would the following articles be related and found on the wiki?
How to Install and Configure Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
How to Install and Configure a Nagios monitoring server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
How to Install and Configure a MySQL server (prerequisite is the server install page above)
How to Install and Configure a MediaWiki server (prerequisite is the server install and MySQL pages above)
The titles of wiki pages are usually the single most important aspect to creating a page along with correctly associating the content to the proper categories. How would one go about picking the best title for a wiki article? The above examples can be worded in many different ways.
Since the above tutorials are a bit niche, how can that be reflected and differentiated from other similar articles? Examples: Nagios is compiled from source rather than from the Ubuntu distro in order to have the latest version and absolute control where everything is located. MediaWiki is compiled from source rather than the Ubuntu distro mainly to make use of a separate dedicated MySQL server...unlike many other tutorials (and even the Ubuntu distro) that expect everything to be on the same server.
I might be missing the boat since I am not entirely familiar with the wiki but the articles seem to disappear into a hole (reach a dead end)
I saw the earlier post about
the vb wiki and it presents a LOT of information in an organized way. However, I think that wiki app is a highly customized front-end which happens to use a wiki back-end. Would probably be difficult to reproduce with a pure wiki site. But then again, the Ubuntu wiki site also seems to be a customized front-end using a wiki back-end.
Other wiki sites I have used that make good use of categories and organizing pages so they can be found easily are
The Nexus Wiki and
The Elder Scrolls CS Wiki. I mention those sites not only because I am familiar with them but they also represent the kind of structure for most wiki sites I have used which seem to be good repositories of information...not just collections of data.
As for discussions of the wiki pages, I thought the "discussions" or "talk" page associated with a wiki page was the perfect place to discuss issues/questions about the article...but I do not see that feature on the Ubuntu wiki.
Here is an example of a "talk" page for a wiki article.
Wiki is community maintained and you should feel free to improve the wiki pages, that is the whole point.
We have an entire team of people working on wiki pages, free free to join the mailing lists and start contributing.
Otherwise , complaining here is going to fall on deaf ears. I doubt the wiki team is going to search these forums for feedback. I would also remind you that complaints from non-contributing members tend not to get much traction.
Quote:
Other members brought up concerns with community wiki pages regarding the loss of control over the article. Obviously, when a tutorial can be edited by anyone, there can be problems in the direction or intent of an article being changed from edits but that can be controlled to an extent by being clear as to "why" things are the way they are in the article as well as "subscribing" to the article to be informed whenever a change is made...which you can then review to see if you agree with it or not and thus make additional changes or revert the change and mention the issue on a talk page (if there is one).
When looking at any history page on the wiki, I can hover my mouse over a member's name and it will show the IP of that member in the tooltip. Please tell me this is an unintended bug and not something that the Ubuntu wiki team considers as information that should be shared with the general public. It seems to be in direct contrast to the general policies related to PC security.
LHammonds
I do not understand this at all. I think it is a matter of your misunderstanding of licensing issues.
These forums, and the entire community, is not about control, it is about collaboration, see the Code of Conduct.
If you wish to own or control content, this is not the place or community, use your own personal web pages, and use appropriate copyrights.
Many people have dual content, I do. I contribute to the wiki and I have personal web pages.
Furthermore, times are changing. There was a time when the forums were an independent community, and to a large extent Tips and Tutorials is a remnant of that era.
With integration into the larger community, this section is becoming depreciated and I anticipate continued progress.
If you do not want to contribute, that is fine, no one is forcing you to do so. But wiki really is better and I would highly encourage you to contribute to the cause.
But again, if you are looking for "control", this is the wrong place.
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Hello, all.
Regarding the changes to this area, I was wondering: since my thread is now closed, and I've migrated all valuable information to its new wiki page, where can I post annoucements regarding the information on the wiki? Where is the appropriate place?
The wiki page contains instructions on adding my PPA (which contains custom builds on Unity). When I push new builds, like I recently did, I'd like to update users and inform them of the changes (i.e. post the changelog).
Thanks!
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012412
Is the thread for discussing the wiki - it's linked to from your old thread ;)
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfy
Thanks, Elfy! I figured that's where it should go, but I wanted to make sure. :)
-
Re: Pending Changes to Tutorials and Tips.
-
Re: Continuing changes to Tutorials and Tips - please read
Hello
Just a quick message to applause this move.
For information, the ubuntu-fr community has done this move long ago (>4years) and we can see only benefits now.
Let's synthesize collaboratively our knowledge on the Wiki!
Remarks:
- in the Forums there should be an easy way to search in the Wiki.
- this is important:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cprofitt
B. A thread is created in the forums that point at the wiki page and discussion around the wiki page happen on the forums.
C. The wiki page has a link to the thread that is dedicated to discussing it.