Jaunty's Theme: Will the Fourth Time Be the Charm?

[talkingwires]

Well, a new release is in the works, and we all know what that means! Users are asking for a new theme, and the developers, like an alcoholic father promising to buy his kid a new toy, have once again made a new theme a "priority".

Jaunty will be the fourth release, making two years of development, where this elusive theme has been a "priority". During its development, it will also mark the first anniversary of Canonical hiring a full-time art director, who has made remarkable strides in, well, Changing the Firefox "start page" from brown to white.

So it is with a "jaunty" spirit that I ask you, my fellow forum members, will Ubuntu 9.04 be "the one" with a radical new look? Or will all we get is a new "log off" button and heaps of promises for the next release?

[plun]

Maybe you can find the answer at Planet Gnome....:)

http://planet.gnome.org/

This art-director cannot do anything more then "reinvent the wheel".

If Gnomes developers can choose a road for the future it´s maybe hope for a real new theme and desktop look.


I really hope they can.... but the road to Gnome 3.0 is a bumpy one... (or close Gnome go with KDE)

[Slug71]

Would be nice to have a new Theme.

I think maybe it should be one that will work with Gnome 2.24 as well though as i think that maybe Jaunty should ship with 2.24 and iron out more bugs there before jumping to 2.26 so that by the time KK comes along and gets 2.26 it will be all shiney.

Or include the the Dev version of 2.26 right away with Alpha 1 of Jaunty so that bugs can be reported and fixed right away so its shine and solid for Jaunty release.

I'd rather prefer though for Jaunty to be a Working Stable release if it means missing out on a new Theme.

[plun]

Would be nice to have a new Theme.

I think maybe it should be one that will work with Gnome 2.24 as well though as i think that maybe Jaunty should ship with 2.24 and iron out more bugs there before jumping to 2.26 so that by the time KK comes along and gets 2.26 it will be all shiney.

Or include the the Dev version of 2.26 right away with Alpha 1 of Jaunty so that bugs can be reported and fixed right away so its shine and solid for Jaunty release.

I'd rather prefer though for Jaunty to be a Working Stable release if it means missing out on a new Theme.


What is a theme....:confused: other colors bot the same tech under the hood...:confused: the same GTK and so on.

This is something new..

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/223

Neil Patel is within this group, AWNs creator and this can lead to something. Throw out panels....:)

What can be done with Clutter ?

[Phreaker]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

[Slug71]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

True.
Ubuntu is already pretty fast. It can be faster however but EVERYTHING needs to be fixed and working properly first though.

[Merk42]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

I want to scream every time I hear this argument.
Users shouldn't have to get a good looking theme after the fact. That's like having a program that's buggy in Ubuntu and the solutions being "the users could always use {insert alternative program} anyway"

And don't think I'm confusing functionality with aesthetics since the FUNCTION of the theme is AESTHETIC


Also, the developers working on making 'lighting fast' are a completely different set of people working on making it look good. So you don't have to sacrifice time working on one for working on the other.

[mejy]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

This is no more logical than suggesting that Ubuntu programmers focus their efforts on solving the economic crisis - the amount of programming skill required to make a theme is near non-existent, it's reliant more on patience and a good imagination/eye. Besides, the community has already made themes which constitute drastic improvements over the current default - I see no reason why one of those couldn't at least be included as default.

[gnomeuser]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy

We could also do both.

Though to really get to a new visual style you would need to change the underlying system, it would be predicated by mockups of where we want to go, examinations of what we would need to get there and then doing the work. This may take a long time since we would need to add functionality to the entire desktop stack, starting with GTK and X.

Adding another theme without thinking about where we want to go is possible, it just won't be great.. it will merely be here sooner even if it won't change much aside a few colors here and there. Rather uninteresting if you ask me.

[talkingwires]

Besides, the community has already made themes which constitute drastic improvements over the current default - I see no reason why one of those couldn't at least be included as default.Umm, some are:sudo apt-get install community-themes

[kernelhaxor]

With the number of people waiting for a new theme, I really think Jaunty will have a new default theme. I also wish Kubuntu gets a new theme anything other than the KDE default which will make it look and feel like Kubuntu.

[jedimasterk]

True.
Ubuntu is already pretty fast. It can be faster however but EVERYTHING needs to be fixed and working properly first though.

And how long will that go on. Nothing is perfect!. Why you have updates. We need a theme that will be elegent and modern looking, and has WOW!!.

[Kevbert]

Hopefully the new theme will be more up-to-date/modern looking. Ubuntu will probably use loads of orange and brown. Kubuntu will probably have loads of shades of blue. Let's hope the theme will be more forward looking (like openSuse maybe).

[lee.jarratt]

and has WOW!!.

Just like Microsoft claimed Vista had..

x

[hanzomon4]

I put forward an idea that I think would make updating the Ubuntu look a real possibility - Link (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6107100#post6107100)

I will be the first to say that a good default theme/iconset/wallpaper/font goes a long way in making Ubuntu "feel good" to use. I updated and kept my Dust theme so I didn't notice the default theme until I logged into the Guest account. It's so plain and ugly.. it makes Ubuntu look like crapware.

[MacUntu]

I don't really care but if there won't be a new theme that's what they should tell us and not sth. like "This release. Oh no, next release. Next release. Blah." - Duke Nukem Forever, anyone?

[Gina]

I'm happy with the theme generally - I just don't like the wallpaper personally (though it's better than some). I think newcomers could do with a hint that is very easy to change wallpaper - just right-click on any photo or image displayed in Firefox and the option to use it as desktop background (wallpaper) is right there.

[hanzomon4]

I'm happy with the theme generally - I just don't like the wallpaper personally (though it's better than some). I think newcomers could do with a hint that is very easy to change wallpaper - just right-click on any photo or image displayed in Firefox and the option to use it as desktop background (wallpaper) is right there.

There is no new theme...

[Jay_Bee]

On recent QA session with Mark Shuttleworth, he said that "maybe" there will be a new theme for Jaunty, because designers team will be in place in January/February, so it's questionable whether their initial work will make a dramatic visual impact on Jaunty.
However, regardless of the new theme, Mark hinted that there will be new desktop experience changes (like redesigned Shut down and Fusa applet were in Intrepid).
Source: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/06/%23ubuntu-classroom.html

[artilec]

Well, a new release is in the works, and we all know what that means! Users are asking for a new theme, and the developers, like an alcoholic father promising to buy his kid a new toy, have once again made a new theme a "priority".

Jaunty will be the fourth release, making two years of development, where this elusive theme has been a "priority". During its development, it will also mark the first anniversary of Canonical hiring a full-time art director, who has made remarkable strides in, well, Changing the Firefox "start page" from brown to white.

So it is with a "jaunty" spirit that I ask you, my fellow forum members, will Ubuntu 9.04 be "the one" with a radical new look? Or will all we get is a new "log off" button and heaps of promises for the next release?


For a theme to work for ubuntu they need a good wallpaper that communicates the meaning of ubuntu. I believe it needs to communicate a sense of community, and giving and collaboration.

I think people need more than a release indicator on their wallaper.

see screenshot of what I think ubuntu should communicate.

[ronacc]

that would be a great splash screen , submit it .

[Gina]

Yes, I certainly think that's much more in the vein of what we want to portray.

[LuisAugusto]

First things first, Developers code, the problem are the designers :)

That said, I lost the hope, and sadly ,as long as it ships with that crappy theme, Ubuntu will scare users right away, because Ubuntu looks like a 90's OS at the side of Mac OS X or Vista.

[matthias_k]

I want to scream every time I hear this argument.
Users shouldn't have to get a good looking theme after the fact. That's like having a program that's buggy in Ubuntu and the solutions being "the users could always use {insert alternative program} anyway"

And don't think I'm confusing functionality with aesthetics since the FUNCTION of the theme is AESTHETIC


Also, the developers working on making 'lighting fast' are a completely different set of people working on making it look good. So you don't have to sacrifice time working on one for working on the other.
I *so* agree with that.

[Jon Bradbury]

First things first, Developers code, the problem are the designers :)

That said, I lost the hope, and sadly ,as long as it ships with that crappy theme, Ubuntu will scare users right away, because Ubuntu looks like a 90's OS at the side of Mac OS X or Vista.

I once saw the Hardy colour scheme described in an online review as "the same excremental shades of brown". I don't know why they call it the "human" theme. Just looks like poo to me. Very drab and uninviting. Ubnuntu advocates need to remember that first impressions count.

Meanwhile, as LuisAugusto rightly says, the rest of the OS world moves on.

[bb10]

Just like Microsoft claimed Vista had..

x

And it does. More then the last 3 version of ubuntu.

I stopped using ubuntu long ago and I can't believe the theme still hasn't changed a single bit. Oh well...

[aceinthenight]

From what I have heard, some people work on themes, but the big wigs never approve them. There is not a dedicated team to creating new themes.

I think Ubuntu Dust should be made the default... it looks awesome.

[Simian Man]

It's really bizarre that Fedora can come up with several stunning themes (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes) with every release whereas Ubuntu has looked almost the same for so long - and is supposedly the most popular distro.

But I guess that bitching about the theme has become a tradition of sorts :D.

[gnomeuser]

It's really bizarre that Fedora can come up with several stunning themes (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes) with every release whereas Ubuntu has looked almost the same for so long - and is supposedly the most popular distro.

But I guess that bitching about the theme has become a tradition of sorts :D.

I constantly find myself amazed that people actually like the Fedora themes, as a fedora user it's one of the aspects that annoy me the most about Fedora. Why can't they just work towards a complete all encompassing theme and polish it over a few cycles. It's not like the rest of us rewrite everything every 6 month why do they have to.

I've always found that there are areas where we are not fully themed, our OpenOffice e.g. doesn't use the correct icons (of course OOo could get a damn clue here but still), same with Firefox.

I honestly wish Fedora would take a page from the Ubuntu book, build on the brand. When you see a brown desktop today, there is no doubt that is Ubuntu. Fedora with it's every changing look doesn't have that, instead we have a new halfbaked look every 6 months.

[Gourgi]

When you see a brown desktop today, there is no doubt that is Ubuntu.
totally agree on this
that is why i tend to think that the human artwork should remain as it is ( brown! )
i'm thinking brown as ubuntu 'trademark' :)

[cardinals_fan]

I constantly find myself amazed that people actually like the Fedora themes, as a fedora user it's one of the aspects that annoy me the most about Fedora. Why can't they just work towards a complete all encompassing theme and polish it over a few cycles. It's not like the rest of us rewrite everything every 6 month why do they have to.

I've always found that there are areas where we are not fully themed, our OpenOffice e.g. doesn't use the correct icons (of course OOo could get a damn clue here but still), same with Firefox.

I honestly wish Fedora would take a page from the Ubuntu book, build on the brand. When you see a brown desktop today, there is no doubt that is Ubuntu. Fedora with it's every changing look doesn't have that, instead we have a new halfbaked look every 6 months.
I have to admit that I love the Fedora wallpapers.

[MadsRH]

I constantly find myself amazed that people actually like the Fedora themes, as a fedora user it's one of the aspects that annoy me the most about Fedora. Why can't they just work towards a complete all encompassing theme and polish it over a few cycles. It's not like the rest of us rewrite everything every 6 month why do they have to.

I've always found that there are areas where we are not fully themed, our OpenOffice e.g. doesn't use the correct icons (of course OOo could get a damn clue here but still), same with Firefox.

I honestly wish Fedora would take a page from the Ubuntu book, build on the brand. When you see a brown desktop today, there is no doubt that is Ubuntu. Fedora with it's every changing look doesn't have that, instead we have a new halfbaked look every 6 months.

+1 that is a great strength in Ubuntu. Witch is proberly also why there has to be a really good (both beautiful and working) theme before the old one gets replaced. And seriously, the default Ubuntu theme is not that bad.
I hope the new theme will appear in the Jaunty release, but I better not get my hopes up.

[mrboojive]

I constantly find myself amazed that people actually like the Fedora themes, as a fedora user it's one of the aspects that annoy me the most about Fedora. Why can't they just work towards a complete all encompassing theme and polish it over a few cycles. It's not like the rest of us rewrite everything every 6 month why do they have to.

I've always found that there are areas where we are not fully themed, our OpenOffice e.g. doesn't use the correct icons (of course OOo could get a damn clue here but still), same with Firefox.

I honestly wish Fedora would take a page from the Ubuntu book, build on the brand. When you see a brown desktop today, there is no doubt that is Ubuntu. Fedora with it's every changing look doesn't have that, instead we have a new halfbaked look every 6 months.

Fedora's Nodoka theme for GTK/Metacity has been the default for a while (3 releases) and is always being updated/polished. I think it's a lot better looking than Ubuntu's Human theme right now.

[rudenko_ruslan]

I thought, that this (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty/Report/Desktop) might be interesting for some people.

[MadsRH]

I thought, that this (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty/Report/Desktop) might be interesting for some people.

It interesting, but is there anything related to the title of this thread "Jaunty's Theme: Will the Fourth Time Be the Charm?"?

[Neon Lights]

It interesting, but is there anything related to the title of this thread "Jaunty's Theme: Will the Fourth Time Be the Charm?"?
yeah, there is...


Timeline

......


9.04: we could possibly have a tech preview PPA with a newer kernel and the theme packaged

This would help the artwork community to have enough time to develop designs and themes




Elements to integrate in the PPA

.....


U theme

[gnomeuser]

Fedora's Nodoka theme for GTK/Metacity has been the default for a while (3 releases) and is always being updated/polished. I think it's a lot better looking than Ubuntu's Human theme right now.

true, and yet not relevant. The nodoka theme still is separate from the rest of the look. The team has worked on the echo icon theme as well - again without looking at the larger context.

We might have the same gtk theme but they plaster new artwork on it each 6 month all of which looks inconsistent because it is not taken into consideration that the whole look of the desktop actually matters. Each cycle they attempt to push Echo on us even if it's not finished (nor pretty or usable).

I really like the Ubuntu approach better, everything fits together as a complete look. Each aspect gets a little polish with every release but the total stays consistent, down to the small details. I want a desktop where my OpenOffice, Firefox and GNOME desktop look the same, use the same icons and so on. Doing that right requires that art work is more than plastering a new background on every 6 months.

[ezsit]

Originally Posted by Phreaker View Post
I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

I want to scream every time I hear this argument.
Users shouldn't have to get a good looking theme after the fact.

I can not understand the second poster responding to the theme debate. Why is this even a debate. The theme does not matter, users change it anyways. Just because some people find the current theme ugly does not mean all people find the theme ugly. Aesthetics are subjective. An ugly theme to you is a gorgeous theme to another. The default theme is far easier on the eyes than the unusable dark (dusty, dirty, whatever the thing is called theme) themes going around these days.

[mrboojive]

true, and yet not relevant. The nodoka theme still is separate from the rest of the look. The team has worked on the echo icon theme as well - again without looking at the larger context.

We might have the same gtk theme but they plaster new artwork on it each 6 month all of which looks inconsistent because it is not taken into consideration that the whole look of the desktop actually matters. Each cycle they attempt to push Echo on us even if it's not finished (nor pretty or usable).

I really like the Ubuntu approach better, everything fits together as a complete look. Each aspect gets a little polish with every release but the total stays consistent, down to the small details. I want a desktop where my OpenOffice, Firefox and GNOME desktop look the same, use the same icons and so on. Doing that right requires that art work is more than plastering a new background on every 6 months.

Obviously opinions differ widely on whether Echo, Nodoka, and the current Human theme look good, but I don't think the Ubuntu approach and the Fedora approach are all that different, except that Fedora changes their boot/GDM to match their wallpaper. Fedora is slowly progressing towards a unified mostly blue look: Nodoka + Echo + a different background every release. With the exception of an OpenOffice theme, I think that will be just as unified as Ubuntu's current mostly orange look: Human GTK/Metacity + Human icons + different background every release.

[uBeer]

I can not understand the second poster responding to the theme debate. Why is this even a debate. The theme does not matter, users change it anyways. Just because some people find the current theme ugly does not mean all people find the theme ugly. Aesthetics are subjective. An ugly theme to you is a gorgeous theme to another. The default theme is far easier on the eyes than the unusable dark (dusty, dirty, whatever the thing is called theme) themes going around these days.

The theme actually does matter, because the target users are not just home users but corporations as well! I don't know about you, but at my job I almost never see any adjustments of themes outside the IT section (ok, besides the changes that the administrator sets for them the first time they ever log in). Everyone just uses their desktop and maybe here and there change their wallpaper, but no-one seems to know that you can change the whole theme (even in Windows).

That's why the looks *are* important, if corporations convert to Ubuntu they have to have something nice.

Home users are quite a different bunch, but they aren't the most advanced users as well. I installed Ubuntu on my moms laptop and she wants a clean interface with enough contrast so she can see what she's doing.
She also has vista on her laptop and she couldn't use the menu's well, because she couldn't see the light blue selection highlight on light gray. I switched the theme to the 98 look and she was grateful for that.

Usability is an important thing in todays computer world. Everybody uses a computer so it ain't surprising that you want something consistent and easy to work with. People want to get things done in the most non-confusing way!

And I gotta say that I like the standard theme for Ibex, totally clean and usable. I'm not excited that much any more about a new theme. Though I hope with Plymouth the boot and shutdown experience will get an overhaul.

[Martin Marshalek]

I think the default Ubuntu theme is perfect as it is. It's "90's" look makes the GUI feel simple in the sense that it is not bloatware and gives you only what you need. Although I love aero in my Vista and don't mind Leopard's default theme, Ubuntu's "simple" theme makes me feel like the OS is open to WHATEVER I want. I agree that the developers should spend more time on the Ubuntu and not on eye-candy.

[bruce89]

Human is ugly, and nothing short of dropping it will help. I'd rather they just didn't bother, and used the default GNOME theme (perhaps with different colours).

[qamelian]

Human is ugly, and nothing short of dropping it will help. I'd rather they just didn't bother, and used the default GNOME theme (perhaps with different colours).
You say that Human is ugly as if it is a fact. It isn't. I do like Human and do not find it ugly. No matter what themes I use from time to time for variety, I always revert to the human theme because I find it very relaxing and easy on the eyes compared to most other themes I've tried.

[bruce89]

You say that Human is ugly as if it is a fact. It isn't. I do like Human and do not find it ugly. No matter what themes I use from time to time for variety, I always revert to the human theme because I find it very relaxing and easy on the eyes compared to most other themes I've tried.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

I have reasons:


The icons are inconsistent
The window border is the slowest to render of popular themes
Generally, it hasn't changed for 4 years
The old Ubuntulooks theme was unmaintained for years

[Grant A.]

The icons are inconsistent


+1

Half of them look like GNOME icons, and the other half look like someone tried to merge tangerine and tango together.


The window border is the slowest to render of popular themes


I've never had this problem.


Generally, it hasn't changed for 4 years


Look up the Ubuntu legacy theme. The last time this theme had a major update was in Dapper when they switched the color scheme from poop brown to neon orange.

[bruce89]

Half of them look like GNOME icons, and the other half look like someone tried to merge tangerine and tango together.


That's because the Human icon theme was never completed. If an icon can't be found in the current theme, it goes to the next in the queue, which is the GNOME one (which is blue-centric).

Here's my default theme:


[Desktop Entry]
Name=Orange Clearlooks
Type=X-GNOME-Metatheme
Comment=

[X-GNOME-Metatheme]
GtkTheme=Clearlooks
MetacityTheme=Clearlooks
IconTheme=Tangerine
GtkColorScheme=fg_color:#000000000000,bg_color:#ef efebebe7e7,text_color:#1a1a1a1a1a1a,base_color:#ff ffffffffff,selected_fg_color:#000000000000,selecte d_bg_color:#ffffa4a44343,tooltip_fg_color:#0000000 00000,tooltip_bg_color:#f5f5f5f5b5b5
CursorTheme=default
CursorSize=18
NotificationTheme=ubuntu
BackgroundImage=/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png

[qamelian]

You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

I have reasons:


The icons are inconsistent
The window border is the slowest to render of popular themes
Generally, it hasn't changed for 4 years
The old Ubuntulooks theme was unmaintained for years


You are entitled to an opinion, but the way you expressed yourself portrayed your statement as a fact, not as an opinion.

As for your points, I have yet to see any icon theme that didn't appear to contain inconsistencies.
The window border renders almost immediately on all my machines, and is visibly faster than most other themes I've tried.
I don't care that it hasn't changed in 4 years. Change is nice. It isn't a requirement.
I have nothing to say about your fourth point because....well, I have nothing to say about it. :)

My reason for liking Human is simply that I find it very easy on the eyes and since I spend a lot of time working in front of several PCs all day, this is a very important factor for me. I would not balk at more choices that offered the same comfort, but I find that most themes provide a look that actually tire my eyes and cause them to hurt in short order. Human doesn't. In fact, the Human theme is one of the reasons I was attracted to Ubuntu after my initial bout of playing with it while I was still a Fedora user.

[Yes_It's_Me]

I'm running the dust GTK theme and love it.

It is dark, which is pleasing on the eye for me, especially when I stare at gedit for hours on end. It's purdy, polished, consistent and well designed, and works better than any other dark.

I have never understood why it would be so hard for the developers to include something like dust in the default install. It's small and functional.

Also, the gartoon-redux icons are awesome.

[MacUntu]

That's because the Human icon theme was never completed. If an icon can't be found in the current theme, it goes to the next in the queue, which is the GNOME one (which is blue-centric).

That's what I hate most. I can't stand inconsistencies and if they are visual it's twice as bad.

[Chrisj303]

I wish they would completely drop the orange/brown thing.

IMO its VILE. And I have seen potential new Ubuntu users being turned off straight away when trying out a LiveCD.

It doesn't look like a modern OS.

The theme is horrid. The icons are horrid.The fonts, and font rendering is horrid.

[techdude3177]

themes dont bother me, i rather see other things first. i just need an OS that works and decently at that, first and foremost.

[ilovebrownies]

I think Dust Sand would make a nice default theme.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=extras.png

[Yes_It's_Me]

I find the new subpixel rendered fonts really nice.

bitstream versa sans = bliss.

[Chrisj303]

Many of Ubuntu's default fonts look terrible - even with subpixel rendering on.

[hello_kitty]

I would have to cast my vote in favor of the Dust theme: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme

[Kazade]

I think Dust Sand would make a nice default theme.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=extras.png

I just checked this out, and.. wow. This is without a doubt the best theme I've ever seen on Ubuntu. I liked Dust but I didn't like the window borders and I felt it a little too dark. Dust Sand is perfect, I would definitely like to see that as the default theme. It won't happen though, unfortunately.

[pferraro]

I think Dust Sand would make a nice default theme.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=extras.png

It's nice, but the window border unfortunately clashes with the window base color if there is no menu bar present (e.g. System->Preferences->Appearance).

My current favorite is Nodoka Dust (modded with the standard Nodoka scrollbar):
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Nodoka%20Dust
It uses the latest Nodoka engine from git which adds a new MODERN style. It evokes the best of the Aurora engine, but without the lousy performance:
https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/0.8.x_Brainstorm

[int]

First release for Janty


human-icon-theme (0.33) jaunty; urgency=low

* First release for Janty

human-icon-theme (0.32~ppa4) intrepid; urgency=low

* Adding notification icons for Notify-OSD

human-icon-theme (0.32~ppa3) intrepid; urgency=low

* Adding new, improved icons for notification bubbles

human-icon-theme (0.32~ppa2) intrepid; urgency=low

* updating control file to fix build dependencies for intrepid

human-icon-theme (0.32~ppa1) intrepid; urgency=low

* Adding the first batch of the new icons

human-icon-theme (0.32) UNRELEASED; urgency=low

The "make Ken Wimer weep less" release.

* Throw away the horribly complicated and maintenance intensive
automake/autoconf build system and replace it with a single
20-line Makefile which just DTRT.
* Remove a few empty files and the horribly out of date ChangeLog.
* Remove debian/patches/01_make_type_scalable_for_missing_icons.patch and
apply it inline; we are a native package. Drop simple-patchsys.mk
from debian/rules.

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:20:58 +0100
Changed-By: Kenneth Wimer
Maintainer: Ubuntu Art Team
Signed-By: Martin Pitt
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/human-icon-theme/0.33

[BilliShere]

in my opinion we already have a superior-to-osx theme and its called dust..
its time to make it default. :)

[Sephoroth]

I'd be fine with any of the dusts as a new default though for some reason I doubt we'll see any drastic UI changes in Jackelope. IMO new default aesthetics is very important as it provides the first impression. New users aren't going to spend time on a LiveCD customizing everything and some may not know how to initially following installation.

[caryb]

As a KDE user I have always hated the brown/orange/poo looking colour scheme! If dust was introduced as a default for Ubuntu I would strongly advocate replicating the the same theme into Kubuntu to keep uniformity in the major *buntu releases.


Cary

[Chrisj303]

I do wonder if Ubuntu will ever drop the brown/orange/poo color scheme?

Its supposed to fit in with the whole Africa "thing".

[kaldor]

Bah, why does everyone say Human is so horribly ugly?

It's great I think. It's all preference.


I would love to see a new updated version of Human though.



PS: Orange and Brown go together quite well ;)


EDIT: I swear if I ever hear another "brown r p00" comment I will shoot my kneecaps off.

[squell]

My feeling is Canonical are waiting for Gnome 3.0 to be released before they produce a new theme. There is no point making huge changes now when something so big is only 12-18 months away

[Chrisj303]

My feeling is Canonical are waiting for Gnome 3.0 to be released before they produce a new theme. There is no point making huge changes now when something so big is only 12-18 months away

18 months is a HUUUUGE amount of time in the tech industry.

[Chrisj303]

Bah, why does everyone say Human is so horribly ugly?

It's great I think. It's all preference.



You genuinely think the default icons and fonts are up to scratch?

[Kazade]

Bah, why does everyone say Human is so horribly ugly?

It's not that it's ugly as such... it's just drab. Just imagine three PCs in a line, one showing the default OSX desktop, another showing the default Vista desktop and then Ubuntu's default. In fact, you don't need to imagine, here we go:

OSX Leopard: http://seanmcgrath.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/sean-leopard-desktop.png
Windows Vista: http://www.stardock.com/products/desktopx/dx35/img31.jpg
Ubuntu Intrepid: http://bd-things.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ubuntu-810-default-desktop.jpg

Sorry, but no. If I was in a shop (all other attributes aside) I wouldn't be choosing the brown one. Now I don't doubt that brown can look good, especially with oranges and reds, but these great looking brown themes are hardly raising to the fore-front are they?

The default is important, ignore any *but you can change the theme* comments because those custom themes aren't what is printed in Linux Format Magazine, on the Ubuntu.com website etc. etc.


EDIT: I swear if I ever hear another "brown r p00" comment I will shoot my kneecaps off.

Get your shotgun ready ;)

P.S. For the record, I don't mind the default theme too much, and sometimes I return to it. It's the endless broken promises and the refusal to accept great community themes like Dust and New Wave as a starting point for a new default which annoys me.

[Nullack]

It wont happen till gnome 3

[Kazade]

It wont happen till gnome 3

I bloody well hope not, not after the number of times this has been promised.

I'm hoping that Mui might make it as the default ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Miu ) it got good feedback in the #ubuntu-art mailing list.

[Starks]

It wont happen till gnome 3

If that was the case, Mark would've already declared it flatly.

[PRGUY85]

As for Impression/Mui, I don't think any of this new batch of themes match the level of acceptance that New Wave/Dust reached pre-Intrepid release.

[Yashiro]

All that needs to be said is "of all the current popular distros Ubuntu is the ugliest".

[Nullack]

As for Impression/Mui, I don't think any of this new batch of themes match the level of acceptance that New Wave/Dust reached pre-Intrepid release.

IMHO Dust makes my eyes squint. Its not user friendly to my eyes. New Wave is bugged with Open Office, which Dust seems to have fixed. Also New Wave lacks the nicety of Dusts FireFox theme installer.

I consider Nine and Impression a step ahead of previous themes when it comes to usability.

[Kazade]

Here we go, this is what Mark Shuttleworth has just mailed everyone:


Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce the *Karmic Koala*, the
newest member of our alliterative menagerie.
...
...
...
The desktop will have a designer's fingerprints all over it - we're now
beginning the serious push to a new look. Brown has served us well but
the Koala is considering other options. Come to UDS for a preview of the
whole new look.



So, AGAIN no new look for Jaunty.

[Sand & Mercury]

Here we go, this is what Mark Shuttleworth has just mailed everyone:



So, AGAIN no new look for Jaunty.
Rather than be disappointed by the lack of new theme for Jaunty (like any of us really expected them to come through this time when it took them so long to assemble their paid desktop team), I think we can all rejoice at the opportunity to supplant brown with something more appealing.

I'd shoot for orange. Sunny and peachy. :KS

[tgpraveen]

pls post the contents of the full email msg by mark. or tell where i could get it

[oasick]

The problem of the Human theme is not the color. It is true that the brown is a feature of ubuntu but there are much nicer alternatives, like the Dust theme.
The icons are olds and ugly (why not SudUbuntu theme by default?) and the windows looks like a "mod" of windows 95.
For 4 years, people are asking for another issue and we know that can be customized to taste, but ubuntu makes a great effort to expand his project by giving cds or creating tools that facilitate the management on the desktop and it is unfortunate that display with a desktop that is aesthetically ugly as a bad image of how much they can offer the Linux desktop.
If the developers like this default theme, no one tells them not to use (they can edit the theme as they really want without problems), but all users wants that the distribution continues to grow and it is important that ONLY a design team can choose the default theme.

Why not ubuntu likes the attachment?

...a little request:
When the developers will realize that the default theme is an authentic junk that nobody likes?

[Kazade]

Here's the full message:



Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce the *Karmic Koala*, the
newest member of our alliterative menagerie.

When you are looking for inspiration beyond the looming Jaunty feature
freeze, I hope you'll think of the Koala, our official mascot for Ubuntu
9.10. And if you'll bear with me for a minute I'll set the scene for
what we hope to achieve in that time.

Server

A good Koala knows how to see the wood for the trees, even when her head
is in the clouds. Ubuntu aims to keep free software at the forefront of
cloud computing by embracing the API's of Amazon EC2, and making it easy
for anybody to setup their own cloud using entirely open tools. We're
currently in beta with official Ubuntu base AMI's for use on Amazon EC2.
During the Karmic cycle we want to make it easy to deploy applications
into the cloud, with ready-to-run appliances or by quickly assembling a
custom image. Ubuntu-vmbuilder makes it easy to create a custom AMI
today, but a portfolio of standard image profiles will allow easier
collaboration between people doing similar things on EC2. Wouldn't it be
apt for Ubuntu to make the Amazon jungle as easy to navigate as, say, APT?

What if you want to build an EC2-style cloud of your own? Of all the
trees in the wood, a Koala's favourite leaf is Eucalyptus. The
Eucalyptus project, from UCSB, enables you to create an EC2-style cloud
in your own data center, on your own hardware. It's no coincidence that
Eucalyptus has just been uploaded to universe and will be part of Jaunty
- during the Karmic cycle we expect to make those clouds dance, with
dynamically growing and shrinking resource allocations depending on your
needs. A savvy Koala knows that the best way to conserve energy is to go
to sleep, and these days even servers can suspend and resume, so imagine
if we could make it possible to build a cloud computing facility that
drops its energy use virtually to zero by napping in the midday heat,
and waking up when there's work to be done. No need to drink at the
energy fountain when there's nothing going on. If we get all of this
right, our Koala will help take the edge off the bear market.

If that sounds rather open and nebulous, then we've hit the sweet spot
for cloud computing futurology. Let me invite you to join the server
team at UDS in Barcelona, when they'll be defining the exact set of
features to ship in October.

Desktop

First impressions count. We're eagerly following the development of
kernel mode setting, which promises a smooth and flicker-free startup.
We'll consider options like Red Hat's Plymouth, for graphical boot on
all the cards that support it. We made a splash years ago with Usplash,
but it's time to move to something newer and shinier. So the good news
is, boot will be beautiful. The bad news is, you won't have long to
appreciate it! It only takes 35 days to make a whole Koala, so we think
it should be possible to bring up a stylish desktop much faster. The
goal for Jaunty on a netbook is 25 seconds, so let's see how much faster
we can get you all the way to a Koala desktop. We're also hoping to
deliver a new login experience that complements the graphical boot, and
works well for small groups as well as very large installations.

For those of you who can relate to Mini Me, or already have a Dell Mini,
the Ubuntu Netbook Edition will be updated to include all the latest
technology from Moblin, and tuned to work even better on screens that
are vertically challenged. With millions of Linux netbooks out there, we
have been learning and adapting usability to make the Koala cuddlier
than ever. We also want to ensure that the Netbook Remix installs easily
and works brilliantly on all the latest netbook hardware, so consider
this a call for testing Ubuntu 9.04 if you're the proud owner of one of
these dainty items.

The desktop will have a designer's fingerprints all over it - we're now
beginning the serious push to a new look. Brown has served us well but
the Koala is considering other options. Come to UDS for a preview of the
whole new look.

UDS in Barcelona, 25-29 May

As always, the Ubuntu Developer Summit will be jam-packed with ideas,
innovations, guests and gurus. It's a wombat and dingbat-free zone, so
if you're looking for high-intensity developer discussions, beautiful
Barcelona will be the place to rest your opposable thumbs in May. It's
where the Ubuntu community, Canonical engineers and partners come
together to discuss, debate and design the Karmic Koala. The event is
the social and strategic highlight of each release cycle. Jono Bacon,
the Ubuntu Community Manager has more details at
http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/02/19/announcing-the-karmic-koala-ubuntu-developer-summit/
including sponsorship for heavily-contributing community members.

More details of the Ubuntu Developer Summit can be found at
http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS.

A newborn Koala spends about six months in the family before it heads
off into the wild alone. Sounds about perfect for an Ubuntu release
plan! I'm looking forward to seeing many of you in Barcelona, and before
that, at a Jaunty release party. Till then, cheers.

Mark

[melalcoolique]

pls post the contents of the full email msg by mark. or tell where i could get it

Here:
http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1831

[medeshago]

The problem of the Human theme is not the color. It is true that the brown is a feature of ubuntu but there are much nicer alternatives, like the Dust theme.
The icons are olds and ugly (why not SudUbuntu theme by default?) and the windows looks like a "mod" of windows 95.
For 4 years, people are asking for another issue and we know that can be customized to taste, but ubuntu makes a great effort to expand his project by giving cds or creating tools that facilitate the management on the desktop and it is unfortunate that display with a desktop that is aesthetically ugly as a bad image of how much they can offer the Linux desktop.
If the developers like this default theme, no one tells them not to use (they can edit the theme as they really want without problems), but all users wants that the distribution continues to grow and it is important that ONLY a design team can choose the default theme.

Why not ubuntu likes the attachment?

...a little request:
When the developers will realize that the default theme is an authentic junk that nobody likes?


I just tried SudUbuntu and it looks pretty inconsistent, opaque icons for folders and really glossy icons for hard drives and computer. Cartoony icons (Trash, photography emblem) mixed with realistic looking icons (hard drives, refresh, mp3, photography emblem).

[DancemasterGlenn]

I'm decidedly not one to always choose a super sleek theme, or even a dark one... for a very long time my absolute favorite was a combination of the AgingGorilla window border, Crux controls (set to dark blue, not wonky purple) and Tango icons (try it if you can, it's oldschool but really charming, and responsive as hell). However, I do think that a change should be made sooner rather than later to a more elegant default than Ubuntu currently provides.

I personally use the Dust theme in tandem with Tango icons, also changing the "selected items" color in the theme menu from orangey to a darker blue. I'm a HUGE fan of Tango icons, as I feel the blue and green look very classy, and combined with the sleek look of the dark-but-not-too-dark Dust theme makes a real winning combination for me. The theme is still being updated too, and each update irons out small details that make the whole thing mesh perfectly for me.

Also, it seems like the biggest problem with Dust for people is that some people don't want a dark theme, but since a light version is also available (and if not fully maintained now, it certainly could be), what would be the problem of making both available in a default install? I'd definitely at least urge more people to test out the themes people are recommending, if enough people advocate a particular theme it will send a better message than simply saying "ANYTHING BUT HUMAN". The community will probably never settle on one theme in particular, but I think discussions like these need to be taken seriously. Hopefully when the dust settles (no pun intended), we'll have 2-3 solid themes that we'll really be proud of.

[Totonno]

I wish they would completely drop the orange/brown thing.

IMO its VILE. And I have seen potential new Ubuntu users being turned off straight away when trying out a LiveCD.

It doesn't look like a modern OS.

The theme is horrid. The icons are horrid.The fonts, and font rendering is horrid.

Woa, like this you put it in a kinda extreme way...so...
I TOTALLY agree :P
Ubuntu needs a new theme and new icons, really bad.
When I look at Ubuntu fonts it makes me think I'd rather have a buffalo take a diarrhea dump in my ear.:guitar:

[cl333r]

If one looks at the history of Ubuntu and how each time there was the 'next release new theme' buzz and then the 'sorry didn't happen, next release' - it starts looking like a bad joke.
We now know Jaunty won't have a new theme (what a surprise), and once again we're given clues that the new theme is scheduled for the next release Karmic Koala (ain't you already tired of these promises?), but I already start hearing that not even Karmic will get it for we need gnome 3.

[Vaun]

Jaunty's theme could look very modern and professional with the addition of a nice community theme. ;)

It's really not that hard and much work to support it.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Miu

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression

[ebichete]

I wish they would completely drop the orange/brown thing.

IMO its VILE. And I have seen potential new Ubuntu users being turned off straight away when trying out a LiveCD.

It doesn't look like a modern OS.

The theme is horrid. The icons are horrid.The fonts, and font rendering is horrid.

If you don't like the default theme, change it. If you can't even stand to ever see the default theme, try LinuxMint (Ubuntu derivative with green, blue and carbon fibre weave). Railing against brown is not constructive.

Ubuntu is brown (with orange and occasional red accents). That is not going to change. I encourage you to make, promote, distribute and maintain alternative themes. The entire Ubuntu community will be richer for them and grateful to you.

[ELD]

Jaunty's theme could look very modern and professional with the addition of a nice community theme. ;)

It's really not that hard and much work to support it.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Miu

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression

Impression, are you kidding me? It's grey, plain and so so so boring! Besides orange + shed loads of grey does not mix.

[olskar]

If you don't like the default theme, change it. If you can't even stand to ever see the default theme, try LinuxMint (Ubuntu derivative with green, blue and carbon fibre weave). Railing against brown is not constructive.

Ubuntu is brown (with orange and occasional red accents). That is not going to change. I encourage you to make, promote, distribute and maintain alternative themes. The entire Ubuntu community will be richer for them and grateful to you.

Not going to change, eh? Let's see..

Mark Shuttleworth:
The desktop will have a designer's fingerprints all over it - we're now
beginning the serious push to a new look. Brown has served us well but
the Koala is considering other options.

[olskar]

Impression, are you kidding me? It's grey, plain and so so so boring! Besides orange + shed loads of grey does not mix.

I agree, I think orange and black is the way to go if orange is being used.

[kayosiii]

I am actually a fan of the Ubuntu brown look. While not everybody everybody likes it..... It is good to see somebody doing something that is not blue and grey that doesn't look really bad. For those who seem to only be able to associate brown with **** - What the hell is wrong with you people, there are lots of great brown things. Get up go outside... get out of the city... It is like the people who complain about the silly release names.

I have installed Ubuntu for a few people now (mostly older folks) and it seems that the look is usually liked. If you look at the comparative screen shots posted earlier in this forum you will notice that Ubuntu looks a lot less busy than either Vista or OSX - this is usually appreciated...

Having said all that - I don't use either gnome or the default colour scheme. I work with imagery a lot and need to be working from a neutral grey as to not throw off my colour perception. I usually choose charcoal tones.

I also think that the default look could be more polished... Add in the missing icons, make everything look more professional but not too shiny. Keep it clean and uncluttered.

[lee.jarratt]

I just want the Human icon set to be scalable without loss of quality.

[uBeer]

I am actually a fan of the Ubuntu brown look. While not everybody everybody likes it..... It is good to see somebody doing something that is not blue and grey that doesn't look really bad. For those who seem to only be able to associate brown with **** - What the hell is wrong with you people, there are lots of great brown things. Get up go outside... get out of the city... It is like the people who complain about the silly release names.

I have installed Ubuntu for a few people now (mostly older folks) and it seems that the look is usually liked. If you look at the comparative screen shots posted earlier in this forum you will notice that Ubuntu looks a lot less busy than either Vista or OSX - this is usually appreciated...

Having said all that - I don't use either gnome or the default colour scheme. I work with imagery a lot and need to be working from a neutral grey as to not throw off my colour perception. I usually choose charcoal tones.

I also think that the default look could be more polished... Add in the missing icons, make everything look more professional but not too shiny. Keep it clean and uncluttered.

Exactly how I feel about the issue!

[talkingwires]

If one looks at the history of Ubuntu and how each time there was the 'next release new theme' buzz and then the 'sorry didn't happen, next release' - it starts looking like a bad joke....which was why I created this "poll" right after Intrepid launched. The original post is laying it on a bit thick, now that I re-read it. But, like you, I thought it had become a running joke and doubted it would happen.

On the other hand, I was also interested to see if others were skeptical, optimistic they wouldx would deliver, or just thought the developers should work on usability and new features. Looks like the cynical look won out in the end, and was proven right. Again.

On the up side, the Mark Shuttleworth has crossed his heart and hoped to die that we'll see the "designers' fingerprints" all over the next release. I'm taking 2:1 odds that means new wallpaper and, if we're lucky, a new mouse cursor theme.

EDIT - I haven't heard anything about this Gnome 3.0 rumor. Do you have a source? Last I checked, Gnome 3.0 had no shape or form. Many developers are reluctant to loose backwards-compatibility with the API, but some are arguing that it's the only way to bring much-need UI improvements. It'd be at least a year before they even finalized drafts on something like that, so why would the Ubuntu developers wait for something that would take at least three years to see fruition? (If KDE4 is any indicator.)

[nosoupforyou]

I'm starting to get used to the default colors, but either way they are easy to change which I do often to match my wallpaper. What I want is a more polished, sleeker theme included by default.

Personally I think a theme like this would be perfect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Wall-light
Although I think it would need some color changes as the yellow menus are much too bright and the overall theme seems a lot darker than it is now. Also the wooden wallpaper would be replaced with (hopefully) the jaunty jackalope or at least karmic koala if it won't make it for jaunty. Also not all users might want the dock included by default, but I know I would.

Lots of ideas are mentioned here;
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11805/image/1/ (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11805/)

[Vorian Grey]

I don't care for dark themes myself. I don't like web sites with dark themes. I know some do and I hope they have them available for those who do. I just don't think it should be default.

[Gina]

+1

[Bllz]

I would prefer if the developers could make it lighting fast.The users always change the default theme anyway...

True but most of those themes don't integrate 100% and since Ubuntu is aiming for the non-geek crowd as well as to seasoned geeks, that's a problem.

The biggest step they need to take is to drop the fecal brown. I know it's associated with Ubuntu, but frankly, it's a bad association. Forget the brown and find new colors quickly.

The other thing they need to do is realize that a nice theme doesn't necessarily imply redundancy of colors. Look at Vista and Windows 7 (in before windows sucks) and you'll notice that they don't restrict their color palette to blue and green. Folders are beige and other icons have other colors which make them stand out against the background. A lot of themes (especially the darker ones) make it difficult to distinguish the icons from their surroundings, or restrict color to the extent that only the default wallpaper looks good. (cough cough fecal brown)

[DougieFresh4U]

Personally I think a theme like this would be perfect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Wall-light


I love that theme , excellent mix,(excluding the wallpaper on the bottom pic) but of course I have been told here on the Forum that my taste in themes is not 'normal,( but who cares what others think of themes I use)

[mickbuntu]

:o I doubt any new theme will be made this release maybe in couple.

[vishalrao]

i believe dust is included in jaunty now, i dont like dust itself but do like "dust sand" which is what im on now...

[PRGUY85]

i believe dust is included in jaunty now, i dont like dust itself but do like "dust sand" which is what im on now...

Dust and New Wave are supposed to be included now. Not default though.

[Saint Angeles]

i really like the Hydroxygen icons. does anybody else like those?

[ubu-for]

I currently use this awesome theme from willwill100 and would love to see this as the default theme!

http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910

[Sephoroth]

I love that theme , excellent mix,(excluding the wallpaper on the bottom pic) but of course I have been told here on the Forum that my taste in themes is not 'normal,( but who cares what others think of themes I use)

+1 to everything you said.

Also, though I do like how AWN looks in that demonstration, I see it very unlikely to be included by default. Perhaps GNOME's Docky could be integrated somehow....

[kayosiii]

I don't care for dark themes myself. I don't like web sites with dark themes. I know some do and I hope they have them available for those who do. I just don't think it should be default.

Dark themes are good for bringing content forwards... I use it on the desktop because I do a lot of art etc... And this seems to be the best color scheme not to get in the way of what you are doing... I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for other types of computer users.

[kayosiii]

True but most of those themes don't integrate 100% and since Ubuntu is aiming for the non-geek crowd as well as to seasoned geeks, that's a problem.

The biggest step they need to take is to drop the fecal brown. I know it's associated with Ubuntu, but frankly, it's a bad association. Forget the brown and find new colors quickly.

The other thing they need to do is realize that a nice theme doesn't necessarily imply redundancy of colors. Look at Vista and Windows 7 (in before windows sucks) and you'll notice that they don't restrict their color palette to blue and green. Folders are beige and other icons have other colors which make them stand out against the background. A lot of themes (especially the darker ones) make it difficult to distinguish the icons from their surroundings, or restrict color to the extent that only the default wallpaper looks good. (cough cough fecal brown)

I personally find that vista looks too busy colour scheme wise not necessarily in the Icons but certainly the desktop as a whole... XP was a little bit offensive in that degree too. I haven't seen windows seven.

And frankly can't you come up with something more positive to associate brown with I know I sure as well can. However I think there should be a one click neutral (grey) theme for those who need it for practical reasons.

[Bllz]

I personally find that vista looks too busy colour scheme wise not necessarily in the Icons but certainly the desktop as a whole... XP was a little bit offensive in that degree too. I haven't seen windows seven.

With respect, I think you're missing my point.

I'm not suggesting that Ubuntu adopt a vista-ish theme by any means. I'm just pointing out some aspects in which vista's color scheme is superior to any ubuntu proposition I've seen so far, and I'm also trying to point out what the devs can learn from this. I'd frankly hate to see ubuntu look remotely like windows (or OSX for that matter), and in fact, I agree with you with regards to XP and Vista's busy look.

Poop-references aside, my reason for bringing up the brown in Ubuntu is that it's just bad design. The masses, which, like it or not, is what Ubuntu is after, are not going to react positively to something that connotes age, rust, dirt, or human flesh. It's not what people imagine nor want their computers to be.

Ubuntu needs to look cutting edge, and it needs to stand out, but it needs to do it in a color-marketing-sound way. Brown is not the way to do that.

[kayosiii]

With respect, I think you're missing my point.

I'm not suggesting that Ubuntu adopt a vista-ish theme by any means. I'm just pointing out some aspects in which vista's color scheme is superior to any ubuntu proposition I've seen so far, and I'm also trying to point out what the devs can learn from this. I'd frankly hate to see ubuntu look remotely like windows (or OSX for that matter), and in fact, I agree with you with regards to XP and Vista's busy look.
Fair enough I shall look at the Icon scheme more closely next time I am on a vista machine... Also the default ubuntu scheme at some point.

Poop-references aside, my reason for bringing up the brown in Ubuntu is that it's just bad design. The masses, which, like it or not, is what Ubuntu is after, are not going to react positively to something that connotes age, rust, dirt, or human flesh. It's not what people imagine nor want their computers to be.

Ubuntu needs to look cutting edge, and it needs to stand out, but it needs to do it in a color-marketing-sound way. Brown is not the way to do that.

This is where I entirely disagree with you. The colour scheme and the silly release names all give Ubuntu a friendly, layed back and not taking things too seriously feel. Believe it or not this is appealing to a lot of people. I think it is a part of the reason that Ubuntu has been so successful.

Linux isn't ready for the masses. We have a few chicken and egg problems to sort out first. Ubuntu is ready for a person who wants something relatively simple to use, different and ethically superior because of this they are prepared to put up with the short comings (from a mass market perspective)...

Go into the supermarket and look at products that sell themselves because they are somehow healthier, more ecological or more ethical than other products. I am going to bet that you will find quite a bit of brown packaging.

[nyarnon]

this is where i entirely disagree with you. The colour scheme and the silly release names all give ubuntu a friendly, layed back and not taking things too seriously feel. Believe it or not this is appealing to a lot of people. I think it is a part of the reason that ubuntu has been so successful.

+1

[mihai007]

I actually like the brown theme. It's quite easy and pleasant for the eyes.
I believe that it's not the color that will make the theme better, it's the polishing of it...

[Bllz]

Fair enough I shall look at the Icon scheme more closely next time I am on a vista machine... Also the default ubuntu scheme at some point.

And please keep the discussion going =)


This is where I entirely disagree with you. The colour scheme and the silly release names all give Ubuntu a friendly, layed back and not taking things too seriously feel. Believe it or not this is appealing to a lot of people. I think it is a part of the reason that Ubuntu has been so successful.

I think "a lot of people" may like it, but I'd venture to say that a significant majority does not. This is something I actually haven't addressed yet, but I find it surprising that there hasn't been mention of market research in this domain. I know Shuttleworth hired an art develloper (I forget the exact title), and I'd like to hear more about his work.

Linux isn't ready for the masses. We have a few chicken and egg problems to sort out first. Ubuntu is ready for a person who wants something relatively simple to use, different and ethically superior because of this they are prepared to put up with the short comings (from a mass market perspective)...

I agree, but Ubuntu is certainly hoping to get to the point where the masses will adopt it, and this is what I am talking about. You're right to say that people want something that is simple, different and ethically superior, but you're forgetting "appealing" to use, and color (as well as other aesthetics) has a lot to do with that.

Go into the supermarket and look at products that sell themselves because they are somehow healthier, more ecological or more ethical than other products. I am going to bet that you will find quite a bit of brown packaging.

Yes and no. It all depends on the kind of "healthier and more ecological" product you're buying. I want my eggs in brown packaging because I want my eggs to come straight from the chicken coop. I don't want my computer to come from the chicken coop. Likewise, I don't want my fair-trade business suit to look less refined than its standard counterpart. Computers are not, nor should they be organic. Computers are closer to business suits than they are to whole-foods products.

I hope I don't sound overly pretentious, but I strongly believe this is a critical distinction that much of the community is missing, and I further believe that it is doing Ubuntu a disservice. Simply put, people expect open source to be better on a purely technological plane as well, and a brown color scheme does not satisfy that desire.

I wonder if it would be possible to get the input of some of the people currently working on the visual theme? This could be very enlightening for me...

EDIT: I just want to thank everybody for participating in this discussion. I find it very satisfying to know that on some level, at least, my concerns and thoughts on the project are being heard and discussed. This is precisely what I've come to appreciate in Ubuntu.

[Totonno]

Good point Bllz, I agree with you.

[D1ZZ4ZZT3R]

i don't know if this is a relevant post because, you all may be talking about something different but, i personally like the human color scheme but, i find it to be to plain and, overly simplistic. i also find the default alternate themes to be even more so. i use dust, myself. i think it's a lot classier. i would be using something through emerald but, for some reason, unknown to me, i can't get it to work but, that's another thread.

i do think ubuntu should put more effort into a new default look. i think a snazzed up human theme would be good: same color scheme, more glitz. as far as alternate defaults; get rid of them (the ones there are, anyway). offer dust as one, and others along those lines, as well. windows finally got the look right with vista, after years of boring and (in my opinion) un-asthetic themes. i would like ubuntu to do the same, just different, and better. shouldn't be hard to do for what is, in my most humble opinion, which is in no way either humble or, an opinion, the superior (to windows) operating system.

[Neon Lights]

as far as alternate defaults; get rid of them (the ones there are, anyway). offer dust as one, and others along those lines, as well.
This has already been done; Dust, Dust Sand, and New Wave are offered in the default installation of Jaunty. ;) And some of the older, outdated themes (e.g. Crux) have been removed, and are just in the repos now.

[fballem]

I've just installed 9.04. I did it off an alpha-5 CD, then did the upgrade. I think I'm now running alpha-6. During the upgrade, the theme changed as shown in the attached screenshot.

This is the first time that I haven't instantly wanted to replace the theme. I may keep this for a while, which is a good thing. Obviously, some thought has gone into this and it shows.

Thanks!

[exploder]

fballem, I have the exact same view as you about the new default look.

[andrewabc]

I've just installed 9.04. I did it off an alpha-5 CD, then did the upgrade. I think I'm now running alpha-6. During the upgrade, the theme changed as shown in the attached screenshot.

This is the first time that I haven't instantly wanted to replace the theme. I may keep this for a while, which is a good thing. Obviously, some thought has gone into this and it shows.

Thanks!

The wallpaper looks decent enough to keep short term. At least will get no "wtf is that" responses to it.

[D1ZZ4ZZT3R]

This has already been done; Dust, Dust Sand, and New Wave are offered in the default installation of Jaunty. ;) And some of the older, outdated themes (e.g. Crux) have been removed, and are just in the repos now.

suh-weet

[Sealbhach]

I currently use this awesome theme from willwill100 and would love to see this as the default theme!

http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910

That looks great! However...

I wouldn't want to see a dock in a default theme, personally I don't like them and the ones I've used, AWN and Cairo have always been a bit buggy, at least when I've used them.


.

[wpf999]

Just to keep the discusssion going. I'm using Jaunty Beta (really stable for now). I find the Dust Sand theme pretty smooth.
I really like Docky but it has one drawback: you can't keep the dock on the desktop and have it hide beneath maximised windows. Either it's completely hidden or always visible. If it weren't for this, it would be perfect.
That's why I plumped for Awn. The only trouble there was that all the icons included in the distro looked pretty fuzzy on the dock. I then searched around and found a very cool icon set called Meliae dark, which look really professional everywhere, including the dock.
So I find Jaunty + Dust Sand + Awn + Meliae dark icons a very neat combination.

[shark1997]

The themes included by default should not be changed because right now it is neutral. Either everyone likes it, no one likes it (which is the case), or half the people like and the other half don't. If Ubuntu gets shipped with a new theme then it will no longer be neutral. Some people won't like it and tell the Ubuntu Devs to use a different theme. When they make a new theme there will always be someone who does not like it and tells somemone to make a new theme, so the cycle never ends:-\"

The theme doesn't matter for me, all I care about are speed and functionality. If Ubuntu uses an ugly theme I don't care because I can always change it to something I like. The Ubuntu Devs should not have anything to do with appearance. If they do Ubuntu will become more Vista-ish(bad speed, too much graphics).

[ronacc]

in about 2 weeks we can start bitching about karmic koalas theme :lolflag:

[SunnyRabbiera]

Make that sixth time the charm. a la My Cousin Vinny :D

[moopere]

I want to scream every time I hear this argument.
Users shouldn't have to get a good looking theme after the fact. That's like having a program that's buggy in Ubuntu and the solutions being "the users could always use {insert alternative program} anyway"

And don't think I'm confusing functionality with aesthetics since the FUNCTION of the theme is AESTHETIC


Yeah well.... this argument always makes me scream too. All the brown/orange based themes presented so far have been absolutely fantastic! Really really good. They are distinctive, eye catching and all round beautiful.

Soon as they change to blue or green I'll have to start scanning gnome-look for brown variations.

Cheers, Craig

[Bearded-flower]

Sweet lord, no more f*****g browns!!!