Liberation fonts as default!

[Mazza558]

The liberation fonts are absolutely amazing in my opinion - the clearest and nicest fonts available on Linux. They're already in the Ubuntu repos, so why not use them as default? Here's a screenshot of them at size 10:

https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/29948/fonties.png

[Slug71]

+1

[lee.jarratt]

-1

I can't say I'm a fan.

[Mazza558]

So, that's a total of +1 so far.

[DJ_Peng]

-1

I thought the Liberation fonts were perfect until I saw how much clearer the DejaVu (http://nancib.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/like-the-liberation-fonts-you-may-prefer-a-little-dejavu/) fonts are. You can see a rather long discussion on the merits of Liberation/DejaVu on the Brainstorm idea (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1113/). And yes, I know it's running extremely popular, but if you compare the two you'll see DejaVu are easier on the eyes.

Of course it all comes down to personal choice. Some love Liberation, some prefer DejaVu, and some will prefer something else altogether. Although for the sake of easier reading I'm hoping that if they change the default font they change it to DejaVu and also install Liberation so users can pick the one they like best.

[danf_1979]

No! I don't like it.

-1

[Sorivenul]

I'm all for it. Add my +1. This on Brainstorm yet?

[Mazza558]

Now we're on +0...

[Mazza558]

Deja Vu fonts are alright, but I still think Liberation is clearer.

[lee.jarratt]

In my opinion, I think Dejavu is clearer. I'm now using it as my font in Jaunty.

[Mazza558]

I'm sure I'm not doing it right. The deja vu fonts look oddly spaced and sized, which vary based on the letters.

[Therion]

Not that I have a dog in this race, but looking at the fonts in the original post, those are anything BUT clear. Look at the word "Bookmarks". See how the center, vertical "bar" of the "M" is heavier than the the vertical "bar" of the "B". That pattern, in a general sense, is evident in a lot of other words and letters. This is the biggest probelem I see in a lot of fonts under Linux. I use Verdana for my default because this problem seems LESS prevalent with Verdana.

[DJ_Peng]

I'm all for it. Add my +1. This on Brainstorm yet?
Check my post, just a few posts above yours. I even gave a link to the Brainstorm idea.

[linuxguymarshall]

-1 Liberation
+1 DejaVu

[Sorivenul]

Check my post, just a few posts above yours. I even gave a link to the Brainstorm idea.

Missed it the first time. Found it. Glad it's there.

[plun]

I am always using Liberation fonts and there are a few which can be used.

Maybe its better to start a "cleaning" process for fonts which hardly noone uses ? Just a mess now with different fonts.

Cairo will also be upgraded and supporting all settings for fontconfig.

[mewithafez]

Those are both fine fonts - but I'd like to throw another contender into the ring.

http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/

Take a look at Museo Sans or any of his other fonts, they aren't under a free license but Troy Sobotka has contacted him and raised the possibility so maybe with a little more contact, a little more suggestion he would license one under the gpl...

[ronacc]

I can't see any difference between liberation and the sans font I am already using . I agree with plun do we really need so many fonts in the default install ? isn't that what repos are for ? we are always hurting for cd space and fonts are a place we can save some .

[melkart76]

Liberation fonts should not be set as the default system font - as I like DejaVu Sans much better - but they should be installed on the system by default.

Why? Because many web pages require MS font types. When those are not installed, the browser renders the page with some other font. But as soon as the user installs the msttcorefonts package or the liberation font, these web pages suddenly look very different.

When this happened to me the first time, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know that it happened because I installed the msttcorefonts package, it seemed like unpredictable behaviour to me. I cursed Ubuntu for its perceived brokenness. Had these web pages always been rendered with the Liberation font in the first place, I wouldn't have noticed any change. Installing another package should never cause the system to change its behaviour on unrelated tasks. The user should be free to install and uninstall packages, without that damaging the rest of his system.

Further, the MS font types are designed to look better without antialiasing in small sizes. On this web site (http://www.sharpfonts.com) is explained how a system can be tweaked to except the MS font types - but only them! - from antialiasing at small sizes.

Ubuntu should ship with Liberation fonts installed by default, but the system default font should not be changed. The Liberation font should only be installed so that web pages requiring MS font types get rendered correctly. Also, the system should, by default, be configured in such a way that both Liberation and msttcorefonts are exempted from antialiasing at small sizes.

[Neon Lights]

I prefer Droid Sans over both of them (And it's been released as open-source now so don't go off on a rant now. >>). It's clearer and more condensed than either of them. Liberation for the default Document font though, since it's the same measurements as the microsoft fonts.

[syga]

I use tahoma fonts on my laptop.
I followed the instructions from http://www.sharpfonts.com/

My fonts are now as sharp as Windows

[mrboojive]

+1 for Liberation.

[Luffield]

Another supported for Liberation. I didn't know them until now and I think they age great.

[plun]

Another supported for Liberation. I didn't know them until now and I think they age great.

More about liberation at OOO-Ninja

http://www.oooninja.com/2008/02/metrical-equivalent-fonts-and-font.html

Debian found a "microscopic" license issue or if it was patent with them...so it took time for these fonts to hit repo.

Just Great !

[AlphaMack]

+1 Liberation. I can't believe I didn't know about them sooner.

[DJ_Peng]

Liberation fonts should not be set as the default system font - as I like DejaVu Sans much better - but they should be installed on the system by default.

Why? Because many web pages require MS font types. When those are not installed, the browser renders the page with some other font. But as soon as the user installs the msttcorefonts package or the liberation font, these web pages suddenly look very different.

When this happened to me the first time, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know that it happened because I installed the msttcorefonts package, it seemed like unpredictable behaviour to me. I cursed Ubuntu for its perceived brokenness. Had these web pages always been rendered with the Liberation font in the first place, I wouldn't have noticed any change. Installing another package should never cause the system to change its behaviour on unrelated tasks. The user should be free to install and uninstall packages, without that damaging the rest of his system.

Further, the MS font types are designed to look better without antialiasing in small sizes. On this web site (http://www.sharpfonts.com) is explained how a system can be tweaked to except the MS font types - but only them! - from antialiasing at small sizes.

Ubuntu should ship with Liberation fonts installed by default, but the system default font should not be changed. The Liberation font should only be installed so that web pages requiring MS font types get rendered correctly. Also, the system should, by default, be configured in such a way that both Liberation and msttcorefonts are exempted from antialiasing at small sizes.
ttf-liberation and msttcorefonts are two different font packages. I don't think having Liberation installed would do anything for websites using fonts in the msttcorefonts package (which can't be included in the default install due to licensing issues). Other than that I agree with you. Include Liberation in the default install but don't change the system fonts to them.

[gaspard.leon]

I agree Liberation looks pretty good and should be installed by default, however, after enabling the auto-hinter, and dejevu fonts start to look good as well
(for those of us that prefer "slight" hinting)

[Gourgi]

DejaVU fonts just rock!
i use them since hardy and definitely is the first thing i change in a clean install

[ShirishAg75]

I agree Liberation looks pretty good and should be installed by default, however, after enabling the auto-hinter, and dejevu fonts start to look good as well
(for those of us that prefer "slight" hinting)

How do you enable the auto-hinter?

There's also something which I have been meaning to ask for a long-long time. This message crops up everytime fontconfig cache updates


Updating fontconfig cache for /usr/share/fonts/truetype/msttcorefonts
No CIDSupplement specified for KochiMincho-Regular, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for Batang-Bold, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for ZenHei-CNS, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for KochiGothic-Regular, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for Dotum-Bold, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for UMingCN, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for KochiMincho-Regular-JaH, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for ZenHei, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for KochiGothic-Regular-JaH, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for Batang-Regular, defaulting to 0.
No CIDSupplement specified for Dotum-Regular, defaulting to 0.


Can somebody explain what is this CIDSupplement and what do I need to do in order for it to be good.

[int]

http://watteimdocht.de/jan-nik/liberation/

Liberation Sans vs. DejaVu Sans

[Mazza558]

http://watteimdocht.de/jan-nik/liberation/

Liberation Sans vs. DejaVu Sans

Dejavu looks nothing like that on my system... :confused:

[Neon Lights]

Dejavu looks nothing like that on my system... :confused:
It's without Antialiasing.
And I still say the Droid fonts are better than either. Though between Deja Vu and Liberation I'd choose Liberation.

[jsmidt]

Should Jaunty have Liberation fonts, Deja Vu fonts, the current Ubuntu default fonts or something else as default? If something else please specify in a post.

*Note: I know there is a thread on this. I would just like a poll to be merged with the thread so we have a graphical representation of how people feel instead of keeping track of +1, -1, etc... (Please admins merge in this poll)

[mdurham]

you left out a 'who cares' option! they can always be changed at anytime.

[danf_1979]

Note that this poll should have been a "Yes" or "No" poll (as for: should be liberation font the default font in Jaunty?), or the results can be misinterpreted. The "No" option is separated in 3 options, but this shouldn't be like this. To read the results in an unbiased manner, consider liberation votes % as "Yes", and 100% - liberation votes % as "No". This means that liberation options win only if it is > 50% :), and I voted for "No" \\:D/

[Neon Lights]

No, Droid Sans should.

[MadsRH]

+1 for Liberation.

[Slug71]

Why another thread on this?

[jsmidt]

Why another thread on this?

If you read my first post you will see I asked that this poll be merged with the other thread so we had a poll to go along with that thread. I don't know why it hasn't been merged.

But to everyone that has, thanks for voting. :)

[smartboyathome]

I like Deja Vu Sans better, but I don't think that there should be this much fuss over a font.

[smartboyathome]

http://watteimdocht.de/jan-nik/liberation/

Liberation Sans vs. DejaVu Sans

Those are obviously biased. It looks like you turned on Antialiasing for Liberation, and turned it off for DejaVu.

[cariboo907]

If you want to merge this thread with the other, just click on the report button and let the mods know what you want.

Jim

[jpeddicord]

Poll & threads merged. :)

[tghe-retford]

I've been using the Tiresias PC Font since Feisty. It looks so much clearer than Deja Vu Sans and Liberation with anti-aliasing, plus all the fonts (except for the Tiresias Screenfont) have been released under the GPL v3.

Info: http://www.tiresias.org/fonts/pcfont/about_pc.htm

[mewithafez]

I've been using the Tiresias PC Font since Feisty. It looks so much clearer than Deja Vu Sans and Liberation with anti-aliasing, plus all the fonts (except for the Tiresias Screenfont) have been released under the GPL v3.

Info: http://www.tiresias.org/fonts/pcfont/about_pc.htm

Do you know if these are packaged either for ubuntu or debian? Just curious :).

[xeriouxi]

Oops! I accidentally voted for the Deja Vu fonts but I prefer Liberation personally. I'd love to see it as default! =)

[autocrosser]

I just set up these fonts & I must say that they ARE more readable that what I've been using (I tried the Liberation, Deja Vu & a couple others)....


Thanks for the link!!!!


I've been using the Tiresias PC Font since Feisty. It looks so much clearer than Deja Vu Sans and Liberation with anti-aliasing, plus all the fonts (except for the Tiresias Screenfont) have been released under the GPL v3.

Info: http://www.tiresias.org/fonts/pcfont/about_pc.htm


Do you know if these are packaged either for ubuntu or debian? Just curious :).

Just download & create a .fonts in your /home--it will be picked up next time you open the Fonts tab in Appearance.....

[mewithafez]

Just download & create a .fonts in your /home--it will be picked up next time you open the Fonts tab in Appearance.....

This actually seems like a good place to throw this in. I was aware of this method and use it but there's no tool I could find to install fonts locally like that. So, in a "lets learn some python" project, I made a small tool to create the .fonts folder if you don't have it, and copy it in after either making it or confirming you have it. Voila! Please send me back bugs or suggestions with what in god's name to do with this :D

All you have to do is set it as executable (right click, properties, allow executing as file) and double-click.

92123

Edit: A file chooser dialog is supposed to pop up and let you select a font file, like a .ttf or a .odf. To check if its working, set hidden folders viewable in nautilus (under view menu) and look in the folder for the font you picked, or just open system-appearance-fonts and try to use the font you picked.

Double Edit: Changes to code made, just to slim the program down a little.

[autocrosser]

I think with a bit of tweaking & a GUI for it--would be a nice tool....

[jpeddicord]

This actually seems like a good place to throw this in. I was aware of this method and use it but there's no tool I could find to install fonts locally like that. So, in a "lets learn some python" project, I made a small tool to create the .fonts folder if you don't have it, and copy it in after either making it or confirming you have it. Voila! Please send me back bugs or suggestions with what in god's name to do with this :D

Couple coding things I'd like to point out:
elif response == gtk.RESPONSE_CANCEL:
a = 'yesitsaplaceholder'
If you absolutely must have a placeholder in there to make it syntactically correct, use the 'pass' line. Otherwise, you can actually delete both of these lines.

if os.path.exists(homeplusfonts):
a = 'placeholder'
else:
os.mkdir (homeplusfonts, 0777)
Same thing. Except this time, just use a 'not' clause:
if not os.path.exists(homeplusfonts):
os.mkdir (homeplusfonts, 0777)

Otherwise, looks good for a "lets learn some python" project. :)
Another way to go about this would be to use a bash script and zenity.

[mewithafez]

Couple coding things I'd like to point out:
elif response == gtk.RESPONSE_CANCEL:
a = 'yesitsaplaceholder'
If you absolutely must have a placeholder in there to make it syntactically correct, use the 'pass' line. Otherwise, you can actually delete both of these lines.

if os.path.exists(homeplusfonts):
a = 'placeholder'
else:
os.mkdir (homeplusfonts, 0777)
Same thing. Except this time, just use a 'not' clause:
if not os.path.exists(homeplusfonts):
os.mkdir (homeplusfonts, 0777)

Otherwise, looks good for a "lets learn some python" project. :)
Another way to go about this would be to use a bash script and zenity.

Thanks! Python is amazing, I figured there had to be something like this but did not expect it to be "pass" and "not". I'll try to get the changes in and will update my post to have the new version maybe tmw or the day after.

Edit: Changes made, see page 5 for font installer program itself :)

[ruik]

I voted for Liberation but as long as the default font is changed to something better I'm all for it.

[swj]

I agree, the liberation font is absolutely amazing (more so than dejavu) on my both my desktop and laptop (T61).

...liberation should be the default font.

[smartboyathome]

I would now vote for Tirenias PCFont as default instead of either of the fonts proposed. I have used it for a while, and the only thing I had to change was taking the / out of the 0.

[ronacc]

actualy I have always thought that the / in the zero made sense , it makes it much easier to quicky see that you have typed an o rather than a 0 ( the letter and the numeral are too close together on the keyboard )

[smartboyathome]

actualy I have always thought that the / in the zero made sense , it makes it much easier to quicky see that you have typed an o rather than a 0 ( the letter and the numeral are too close together on the keyboard )

I always thought it didn't make sense because I can tell just fine if it is a 0 or O by looking at the width (the 0 is thinner, the O is wider).

[MadsRH]

I think they both have strengths and weakness -> http://watteimdocht.de/jan-nik/liberation/


//MadsRH
anotherubuntu.blotspot.com

[marteljorge]

In my opinion, I think Dejavu is clearer. I'm now using it as my font in Jaunty.

Well, I'm going to test that Liberation fonts...

[TaTaE]

Droid a.k.a. ttf-droid is an excellent font, which should be the default for the 904 release. It is the best font i have seen in years, and its professionaly designed for Google Inc.

[pjalegria]

To use Liberation Sans i have to set size 11, default 10 is to small...

[manuelb]

Droid a.k.a. ttf-droid is an excellent font, which should be the default for the 904 release. It is the best font i have seen in years, and its professionaly designed for Google Inc.

+1, i second that, ttf-droid is slick and doesn't eat space as others do.