Distros need to have a stated policy for KDE 3.

[blackbelt_jones]

I was totally blindsided by Ubuntu going from using KDE3 as the default to dropping it entirely in one release. I know all about Hardy being LTS, but KDE 3 is current, is still maintained, and has a huge user base. KDE 3 is no longer the focus oif development, but the KDE team is commited to maintain KDE 3 as long as it has the users, and I need to support that by using a distro that's not going to try to impose an artificial timetable on that. Two years from now, if KDE is going to continue to maintain 3, and if I want to use 3, I dont want my distro getting in the way of that.

So, I guess I'm going back to Debian... but I'm also going to start communicating with the Debian organization about their intentions vis a vis KDE 3. It's not unreasonable for KDE 3 users to press their distro of choice for an idea of what to expect. Distros should have a started policy about KDE support, and users should be able to find out what that policy is. I don't intend to be blindsided again.

[K.Mandla]

So you wanted ... a warning label about KDE4? I'm a little confused.

[mips]

Distros should have a started policy about KDE support, and users should be able to find out what that policy is. I don't intend to be blindsided again.

Did you even bother to read the Kubuntu home page? It has also long been news that this version will be KDE4. Nobody "blindsided" you.

http://www.kubuntu.org/

.

[darrelljon]

I was totally blindsided by Ubuntu going from using KDE3 as the default to dropping it entirely in one release. I know all about Hardy being LTS, but KDE 3 is current, is still maintained, and has a huge user base. KDE 3 is no longer the focus oif development, but the KDE team is commited to maintain KDE 3 as long as it has the users, and I need to support that by using a distro that's not going to try to impose an artificial timetable on that. Two years from now, if KDE is going to continue to maintain 3, and if I want to use 3, I dont want my distro getting in the way of that.

So, I guess I'm going back to Debian... but I'm also going to start communicating with the Debian organization about their intentions vis a vis KDE 3. It's not unreasonable for KDE 3 users to press their distro of choice for an idea of what to expect. Distros should have a started policy about KDE support, and users should be able to find out what that policy is. I don't intend to be blindsided again.
I might switch to MEPIS 8 as it is going to use KDE 3.5.10, OpenOffice.org 3 and Firefox 3.

[blackbelt_jones]

Did you even bother to read the Kubuntu home page? It has also long been news that this version will be KDE4. Nobody "blindsided" you.

http://www.kubuntu.org/



Well, I don't use Kubuntu, per se. For some reason, Kubuntu-desktop would always remove the "Go" button from Konqueror, so it has been my usual practice to install Ubuntu and then install a generic KDE desktop on top of it. So no, I didn't read the Kubuntu home page.

I don't want a KDE 4 warning. I want KDE 3 to live out its lifespan based on its user base, and whether it is being kept current, and not upon an artificially imposed timetable. Ubuntu is under no obligation to provide for that, but in my opinion, it's deliberately limited itself, and it's not the preeminent distro it once was. This is a big problem for me, since I was writing a manual on the Integrated Desktop Command Line based on Ubuntu, and now I have to find something else. And what I want now is a distro that is willing to commit to that, as a matter of policy. Whatever I choose, you bet your *** I'll be reading the homepage from now on, and I want the homepage to tell me explicitly that KDE3 will be supported as long as it is maintained by the KDE team, or not. And if it doesn't say so, I'm going to ask.

I sure did feel blindsided, but it's true that no one blindsided me. Or it might be more accurate to say that I blindsided myself with my own assumptions. I took it for granted that a current, maintained desktop environment with a huge user base would not be dropped. It turns out that was my mistake, and KDE 3 users need to aggressively press their distros for a stated long-term policy.

[blackbelt_jones]

I might switch to MEPIS 9 as it is going to use KDE 3.5.10, OpenOffice.org 3 and Firefox 3.

Thanks for the tip.:)

[Erunno]

openSUSE will also offer a fully supported KDE 3.5 in their upcoming 11.1 release. But it has been already announced that this would be the last release which would feature KDE 3, i.e. 11.2 will only offer KDE 4.2. If interest in KDE 3.5 still persists it will have to be as a community project where openSUSE will provide the build service infrastructure.

[blackbelt_jones]

openSUSE will also offer a fully supported KDE 3.5 in their upcoming 11.1 release. But it has been already announced that this would be the last release which would feature KDE 3, i.e. 11.2 will only offer KDE 4.2. If interest in KDE 3.5 still persists it will have to be as a community project where openSUSE will provide the build service infrastructure.


Lovely:mad:.

You know, when I say I felt blindsided, it was because of this decision. It wasn't because I didn't discover this decision until after installing Insipid Ibex. I'm always installing things without reading the instructions, and I often pay the price. I get that. If I had read the homepage, that simply means I would have felt blindsided before installing Insipid.

This is the downside of one of GNU Linux's greatest strengths. Linux is guided and driven by developers-- and developers, God love em, have a natural fascination for what is new and unfinished. It's a beautiful thing, and the source of all progress. KDE 3 was developed to the point where it couldn't be developed much more, because it was (in a limited functional way) pretty close to perfect, and it's perfectly proper and right that the developers should start a new revolutionary product that breaks the mold. KDE4 is not the problem. Please don't mistake me for one of those "KDE4 sucks" guys.

I've used KDE4 and it's very very cool-- but it's not finished. I've only seen a couple of plasmoids that add any functionality to the old panel applets from KDE 3, which didn't require all that tedious adjusting, resizing and arranging, and the never-ending locking and unlocking. They call them widgets, because you constantly have to fidget with them. The system for setting up keyboard shortcuts is a mess. And Konqueror, the most venerable desktop application ever, has to wait in line for its file management features to be fixed. No longer the default, the King has been usurped by a tepid and officious Dauphin. Like King Lear, Konqueror is being pushed aside to a ceremonial role as a web browser that no one is going to want to use. But let me repeat: I am not one of those "KDE4 sucks" guys! :lolflag:

When you mention these problems in the KDE forum, they quite rightly point out that KDE4 is still new and not finished, and it doesn't have the benefit of all the years of development that KDE 3 has... so why are all those years of development being artificially pushed out the door? I'm sure that KDE4 will work great one day, but I'm not going to base my decision to migrate on the promise of future technology that doesn't exist yet. The problem is that the developers (again, God love em) who control each distro may presume to make that decision for the rest of us, and when the most popular distro ever takes that step, its beginning to feel like the apokolypse for KDE 3 users.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I too dislike KDE4 right now and think its just too new to push out and make a standard.
It doesnt have nearly as many features as KDE3 currently, plasma is still very new and i find it easy to break.
KDE4 isnt there yet, KDE3 is very stable and I dont see why kDE4 has to be pushed the way it is when its not stable yet

[smoker]

PClinuxOS seem as if they are sticking to KDE 3.5.10 on the next version (2009)
We decided to use kde3-5-10 as our default desktop as the we could not achieve a similar functionality from kde4. We will however offer kde4 as an alternative desktop environment available from the repo once we stabilize it.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=50565.0

[blackbelt_jones]

http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/

Hey, I just found this yesterday. It's an unofficial KDE 3.5.10 repository for Ubuntu 8.10, Insipid Ipex! Just what the doctor ordered!

Now, I had a little problem when I tried to use it. After I rebooted, my system shut down at the KDM login, but I bypassed that by using a Knoppix disk to disble KDM in /etc/rc2.d. I login at the console and use startx to uh... start x! I've been in contact with the guy who created this, and he doesn't know of anyone else having this problem.

This is my first look at KDE 3.5.10, which was released in August. It really looks good, more of an improvement over KDE 3.5.9 than you might expect, based on what little I've seen. (Most of the time, I'm not a KDE user in the literal sense. I have a highly customized fluxbox setup build around KDEb applications, especially Konqueror. Konqueror is the center of everything I do with my desktop setup.) I noticed some improvements with Konqueror right away, number one being a dialogue box for using root access to mount removeable media in Konqueror. Before, you'd just get a message: Sorry, can't help you.

In trying to preserve KDE 3 in the face of distros anxious to spare themselves the hassle, unofficial repos may be the way to go. Sure beats trying to hector the distros into giving a crap.

And now... scuse me while I kiss the sky!:guitar:

[Grant A.]

Look, if you want KDE 3 THAT bad, compile it yourself. Quit whining, be a (wo)man and compile it! If you want to get somewhere in life you can't expect everything you want to come out on a silver platter. I swear, this is what "user-friendly" has gotten us into.

[blackbelt_jones]

Look, if you want KDE 3 THAT bad, compile it yourself. Quit whining, be a (wo)man and compile it! If you want to get somewhere in life you can't expect everything you want to come out on a silver platter. I swear, this is what "user-friendly" has gotten us into.

Oh come on, you know that's not the point, and if you don't, read it again. The point isn't my convenience, it's keeping KDE 3 alive, at least until KDE4 is actually a better desktop, and not just a potentially better desktop. The official line from KDE (a stark contrast from what it says in the Kubuntu wiki) is that KDE 3 will be maintained as long as it has a user base. Nothing fancy, just bugfixes and security updates. I don't want more than that, but I want that, oh yes I do. If Kubuntu and SUSE are going to just throw KDE3 overboard, even with millions of users, that means they're killing it. I don't intend to whine over that. I intend to scream bloody f****** murder!

Anyway, I got my KDE 3, and I'm lovin it! Unofficial repos are probably the way to go if KDE 3 is to have a future. No screaming necessary.

[Grant A.]

Oh come on, you know that's not the point, and if you don't, read it again. The point isn't my convenience, it's keeping KDE 3 alive, at least until KDE4 is actually a better desktop, and not just a potentially better desktop. The official line from KDE (a stark contrast from what it says in the Kubuntu wiki) is that KDE 3 will be maintained as long as it has a user base. Nothing fancy, just bugfixes and security updates. I don't want more than that, but I want that, oh yes I do. If Kubuntu and SUSE are going to just throw KDE3 overboard, even with millions of users, that means they're killing it. I don't intend to whine over that. I intend to scream bloody f****** murder!

Anyway, I got my KDE 3, and I'm lovin it! Unofficial repos are probably the way to go if KDE 3 is to have a future. No screaming necessary.

...If you actually download it from their website and compile it yourself, they will know that it still has a userbase...


Btw, please don't compare KDE 3.5 to KDE 4.1, it isn't fair yet. 3.1 had waaay less features than 2.5.

[blackbelt_jones]

...If you actually download it from their website and compile it yourself, they will know that it still has a userbase...

Well, since I've already got it installed, I guess I could just download it and not compile it. Best of both worlds, right?


Btw, please don't compare KDE 3.5 to KDE 4.1, it isn't fair yet. 3.1 had waaay less features than 2.5.

And there it is! The inevitable reference to the hypothetical KDE 4 of the future! :lolflag:

:)DON"T CARE! I mean, if was arguing against KDE4 as a project, the issue of potential might be relevant. I don't want to stop KDE4 development, and I don't want KDE3 to be the focus of development. I try every KDE 4 release, and I'm fairly familiar with it. I like KDE4 for certain things, and I'm open to the possibility that I might prefer it someday, but I don't like making IT choices based on software that doesn't yet exist-- and I REALLY don't like other people making IT choices for me based on software that doesn't yet exist.

KDE 3.5 vs. KDE 4.1 is the only here and now brass tacks reality that we're discussing here. Anything else is hypothetical. But bringing up reality is considered unfair. I think that sums it up pretty good. The hypothetical is more real than the reality.

I've been google searching for "KDE 3 intrepid". It brings me back to this forum and it's kind of weird to see the effort certain members (usually developers) make to shut any discussion of KDE 3 in Intrepid down. It's KDE 4 or Hardy. Those are your only choices, repeated over and over like a cathecism. Makes me feel good about the fact that I'm running KDE 3.5.10 in Intrepid!

Now, scuse me while I kiss the sky, again.:guitar:

[Grant A.]

I like KDE4 for certain things, and I'm open to the possibility that I might prefer it someday, but I don't like making IT choices based on software that doesn't yet exist-- and I REALLY don't like other people making IT choices for me based on software that doesn't yet exist.

"Necessity is the mother of invention" -Thomas Edison



If we didn't have all these expectations for KDE 4, þey wouldn't eventually get done. If we never needed a free alternative to other OS's, Linux would have never gotten done.

[sertse]

And not all of us want to be on the edge. It is a perfectly legitimate acceptable choice, if you're implying anything different. It's no counter argument against his personal choice.

This is proven by reality with some distro staying with kde 3 till kde 4 reaches the same stability.

[SomeGuyDude]

Can someone explain to me why in the world the KDE people decided to make KDE4 a full "release" when they apparently aren't done with KDE3.5 yet?

[ezsit]

I'm with ya. KDE 3.5 is the better choice for most uses if forced to choose between KDE4 and KDE3. This is why I finally made the jump to Gnome with Ubuntu 8.10. Sure, I could have stuck with Kubuntu 8.04 and received updates and bugfixes for the next year or two, but Ubuntu 8.10 supports my hardware better and figured it was time to make the switch away from KDE altogether.

I'll take another look when KDE 4.2 or 4.3 comes along, but Gnome is a pretty decent replacement for the time being.

[blackbelt_jones]

"Necessity is the mother of invention" -Thomas Edison



If we didn't have all these expectations for KDE 4, þey wouldn't eventually get done. If we never needed a free alternative to other OS's, Linux would have never gotten done.

Wait, what? What?:confused:


Look, there's enormous interest in KDE4, and with good reason. Are you saying that discarding perfectly good old software will mean that we need new software more? No, you can't be saying that. What you must mean is... what?

[cammin]

Can someone explain to me why in the world the KDE people decided to make KDE4 a full "release" when they apparently aren't done with KDE3.5 yet?

They make a new version whenever a new version of QT comes out.

Instead of thinking of it as:
KDE 3.5.9 and KDE 4.0

Think of it as
KDE3 5.9 and KDE4 0.0

[blackbelt_jones]

Can someone explain to me why in the world the KDE people decided to make KDE4 a full "release" when they apparently aren't done with KDE3.5 yet?

I think they wanted to attract developers, and I think they were successful. KDE4 is going to be under construction for a long long time, and they want to give people the opportunity to be involved in that, and I think that's fine, but

I just don't know where they're going with it. I've spent quite a bit of time with it, and all I see is that they've taken the panel applets and turned them into widgets that have to be moved around, and locked and unlocked all the time.

Actually, one thing that does strike as having some potential is folderview. With all the data that's coming out that suggests that multitasking really isn't as effective as people like to think, folderview seems to point toward a singletasking desktop that changes for different tasks. Someday, this could be a great thing for getting stuff done, but, man, right now, those widgets are so annoying!

People get a little crazy about innovation, and it's not always a good thing. A couple of years ago, we kept hearing about Second Life, and how
we would all be doing our online shopping in virtual malls. Now, I used to visit SL all the time. These days, my computer doesn't really support it, but it was terrific fun... However, if you've ever tried to drag your avatar around a virutal mall, you know that it is not an efficient way to shop. Then there was the big craze for desktops built on virtual rotating cubes. compiz or whatever... I don't remember anyone figuring out a practical use for those things, and I gave it up when I realized how much my desktop looked like Fox News. Now, there are (ahem) "experts" talking about how touchscreens are going to replace all mice. I'm sure touchscreens have their applications, but NO MORE MICE? Touch this, buddy! Touchscreens look great when demonstrated on TV by a magician/handmodel, but when I actually try dragging my finger accross my screen to see what it might feel like, I am SO not interested.

So is KDE 4 this kind of technological overreaching? If forced to bet on the success of KDE 4, I would most definitely vote for it, not against it... but I'm not a betting man. I try every new KDE4 release, and when I think it's better than KDE3, I'll switch... but don't tell me about how I should switch now cause it's going to better in the future cause I sure don't care.

I will run KDE 3, wherever and however I like.

I will run it on my box.
I will run it with firefox.

I'll run it every night and morn,
with my email, with my porn.

And whether the air is cool or tepid.
<snip>, I will run it on Intrepid!:guitar:



I'm blackbelt_jones, and I approved this message.

[SomeGuyDude]

They make a new version whenever a new version of QT comes out.

Instead of thinking of it as:
KDE 3.5.9 and KDE 4.0

Think of it as
KDE3 5.9 and KDE4 0.0

So how long does KDE3 hang around? When did KDE2 go away in relation to all of this?

KDE just seems like the only thing that doesn't do a standard forward progression.

[darrelljon]

KDE 4 should have been a fork not a replacement.

Debian 5 is another one using 3.5.9.

[Hallvor]

PCLinuxOS will also use 3.5.10. It is in the testing repositories already. They won`t upgrade to KDE4 for quite some time yet.

[PegMonster]

I'm with ya. KDE 3.5 is the better choice for most uses if forced to choose between KDE4 and KDE3. This is why I finally made the jump to Gnome with Ubuntu 8.10. Sure, I could have stuck with Kubuntu 8.04 and received updates and bugfixes for the next year or two, but Ubuntu 8.10 supports my hardware better and figured it was time to make the switch away from KDE altogether.

I'll take another look when KDE 4.2 or 4.3 comes along, but Gnome is a pretty decent replacement for the time being.


My thoughts exactly.

J

[blackbelt_jones]

So how long does KDE3 hang around? When did KDE2 go away in relation to all of this?

KDE just seems like the only thing that doesn't do a standard forward progression.

Here's some really great information on that, from Aaron Seigo, one of the more visible developers at KDE. I think he's been working on Plasma. This is from January.

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html


This year, as with most years since KDE3 emerged, there have been huge deployments of KDE 3 based software. These deployments will not shift for years to come, no matter what KDE4 is. This is because large institutional deployments (government, corporate, educational, etc) typically have 3-7 year cycles (sometimes even longer) between major changes. Patches and security fixes? Sure. Major revamps? No. This alone ensures that KDE3 will remain supported for years. Why? Because there are users. That is how the open source dev model works: where there are users, there are developers; as one declines so does the other. The developers tend to be a step ahead of the users for software that is progressive, but you'll also find that they have a foot in the here and now too (as well as the past, often).


As a KDE 3 user, I read this, and I was satisfied. But it looks like no one at Kubuntu read this.

https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KDE3-KDE4Migration

The development team decided that time and manpower considerations as well as the probable(possible) lack of further 3.5x releases prevent them from maintaining 2 separate versions, and KDE 4 was chosen as the version to move forward with.


Now, this is a wiki, so God knows who actually wrote these words, but it really makes it seems like Kubuntu is basing its decision (at least in part) on false assumptions about the future of KDE 3.

I expected the policy for distros on KDE 3 support to follow KDE's policy, and that's why I felt blindsided. I think that may have been a bad assumption, but now it seems possible that some distros (and Ubuntu is the biggest desktop distro of all, right?) aren't even aware of KDE's policy! To be fair, KDE's policy isn't easy to figure out. Professional wrestlers are probably better at public relations than software developers.


I suspect that there's nothing so remarkable about KDE's release method. The problem may be that KDE4 is such an ambitious long-term project that suddenly these things matter a lot more. I was pretty new when KDE 3 came out, and I think I was a Gnome user, but I don't think anyone really had a problem with migrating.

[RedDwarf]

Now, this is a wiki, so God knows who actually wrote these words
Yes, and the Wikipedia can't be trusted because anybody can edit it... schools should teach how to use wikis!!
The user "claydoh" wrote these words: https://launchpad.net/~claydoh


openSUSE policy about KDE3 is clear: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/09/09/kde-in-opensuse-111-and-beyond/

The thing is, previously to KDE4 distros had teams to support KDE. These teams are of a finite size. Now KDE4 appears... this makes the teams bigger? NO! So there are two options:
- Support correctly only KDE3 *or* KDE4.
- Badly support KDE3 *and* KDE4.

So, which one should be supported? Well, the available data (http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/e/ec/Survey_openSUSE110.pdf) says 3109/7116 = 44% of KDE openSUSE 11.0 users mainly use KDE4 (there are more KDE4 users alone than Gnome users!!). Since openSUSE 11.0 shipped with a far from perfect KDE 4.0, we can only suppose that more users will use KDE 4.1.
Add to this that KDE4 *must* be supported at some point and...

Then perhaps there are still a lot of KDE3 users. Well, if this is the case then there should be enough people able to maintain KDE3 like a community project. The openSUSE Build Service makes it really easy to copy the official packages to your personal project and mantain them from that point. You don't need to touch a single spec file, just make a "osc copypac".
If nobody wants to mantain KDE3 packages... well, then perhaps there are no so much KDE3 users... at least in openSUSE.


Make serious surveys to know your userbase opinion, manage your limited resources correctly, and create a good infrastructure so others can easily help. openSUSE policy makes a lot of sense to me...



I don't know Kubuntu case so well, but:
The development team decided that time and manpower considerations as well as the probable(possible) lack of further 3.5x releases prevent them from maintaining 2 separate versions, and KDE 4 was chosen as the version to move forward with.
Again, they have the same problem. Limited resources means KDE3 *or* KDE4, no both.

[blackbelt_jones]

Yes, and the Wikipedia can't be trusted because anybody can edit it... schools should teach how to use wikis!!
The user "claydoh" wrote these words: https://launchpad.net/~claydoh


openSUSE policy about KDE3 is clear: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/09/09/kde-in-opensuse-111-and-beyond/

The thing is, previously to KDE4 distros had teams to support KDE. These teams are of a finite size. Now KDE4 appears... this makes the teams bigger? NO! So there are two options:
- Support correctly only KDE3 *or* KDE4.
- Badly support KDE3 *and* KDE4.

So, which one should be supported? Well, the available data (http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/e/ec/Survey_openSUSE110.pdf) says 3109/7116 = 44% of KDE openSUSE 11.0 users mainly use KDE4 (there are more KDE4 users alone than Gnome users!!). Since openSUSE 11.0 shipped with a far from perfect KDE 4.0, we can only suppose that more users will use KDE 4.1.
Add to this that KDE4 *must* be supported at some point and...

Then perhaps there are still a lot of KDE3 users. Well, if this is the case then there should be enough people able to maintain KDE3 like a community project. The openSUSE Build Service makes it really easy to copy the official packages to your personal project and mantain them from that point. You don't need to touch a single spec file, just make a "osc copypac".
If nobody wants to mantain KDE3 packages... well, then perhaps there are no so much KDE3 users... at least in openSUSE.


Make serious surveys to know your userbase opinion, manage your limited resources correctly, and create a good infrastructure so others can easily help. openSUSE policy makes a lot of sense to me...



I don't know Kubuntu case so well, but:

Again, they have the same problem. Limited resources means KDE3 *or* KDE4, no both.

I'm skeptical. I really do suspect that the distros are pushing their own agendas... but who cares? It took about a day for some guy to come up with a KDE3 repo for Intrepid, apparently on his own-- so it's safe to assume that as long as KDE keeps releasing it, users will have someplace to go.

http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/

Anyway, maybe it's hard for a distro to juggle two KDEs, but I want to point out that the distro who manages to handle this well can expect enhanced street cred as a major player.

What I do expect of Kubuntu is to use their web resources to help people find those repos. What bugs me is the way everything I found on the kubuntu - related sites have been geared toward shutting down all discussion of KDE3 in Intrepid. No one ever says "Well maybe someone will build a 3rd person repository" or "Well, I guess you can always compile it yourself." It's always "KDE4 or Hardy, KDE4 or Hardy. Those are your choices." Of course, I could be wrong, but it really looks like an agenda. Anybody who wants to do the same google search I did ("kde3 Intrepid") can draw their own conclusions.

Maybe they just don't want to hassle with KDE3 and KDE4 playing together. Indeed,they may have a point. When I installed KDE3 in intrepid, I didn't use Kubuntu. I added KDE3 to Ubuntu. That's how I've always done it, because in the past I've prefered the generic KDE to the KDE3 of Kubuntu-desktop. For some reason, Kubuntu has always removed the incredibly useful "Go" button in Konqueror. Anybody who wants to install KDE3 on Intrepid from these repos, I think starting with Ubuntu is probably the safer way to go, until someone else uses Kubuntu and lives to tell the tale.

For the first time, those advocating for a fork are starting to make sense. If someone simply took the step of renaming KDE3 and all its packages, would that make for a simpler situation?

[samwyse]

I'm not interested in KDE4 until at least this (http://trolltech.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?method=entry&id=164725) and the submenu delay are fixed in Qt4.

[blackbelt_jones]

So how long does KDE3 hang around? When did KDE2 go away in relation to all of this?

KDE just seems like the only thing that doesn't do a standard forward progression.


I think it's a big mistake to look to previous releases as a template for how this release is going to progress. KDE4 is a much more ambitious project than anything that has gone before, and so the rollout is a lot more gradual. KDE 4 is just too big for a standard forward progression.

There is no "schedule" for KDE3 to be dropped. KDE3 will be around as long as it has users, and so the users are the ones who decide. that's probably going to be a long time. The intriguintg question is what happens if some people never want to go to KDE 4? That's definitely an option. It's just never happened before, but because KDE4 is changing the desktop model, some people just may not want to change.

I myself am open to it long term. I'm not one of those "KDE4 sucks" people. In fact, I now do have a Kubuntu 8.10 KDE 4 system installed a dual boot with my Ubuntu 8.10 with KDE3 installed, just so I get a sense of where it's going. Right now I just find Plasma annoying, but it does have the potential to make a much better desktop one day. KDE4 is a really important project, and I believe that if people understood their options, KDE3 users could stop their fear and loathing and support it.

I really am not convinced that everyone on the Kubuntu team understands how this process is supposed to work. I encountered someone from the kubuntu team in a forum explaining how "all" the distros are going to be dropping KDE3 next year... which isn't written in stone, and probably isn't true at all. This is not to pick on the Kubuntu team, only to point out just how endemic the myths and misconceptions are. The guy who famously wrote the article calling for a fork, SJVN? Clearly, he didn't get it either. I didn't get it until I read Aaron's article, which I shall link to once again:

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html

Bookmark it! Circulate it! Read it... and everybody calm down!

[SomeGuyDude]

Jones, my point is that I would have thought that when KDE4 hit as an official release, KDE3 should continue to get little patches to keep it working but any real development should stop. Ubuntu continues support on Hardy, but it's not going to be getting upgrades to the latest and greatest packages that Intrepid has, right?

It just seems bizarre that KDE3.5 and KDE4 are being continued in parallel. Move forward. Don't abandon the old, but don't waste resources on it.

[darrelljon]

This article sums it up better than I can (http://ardchoille.nfshost.com/Blog/20081116).