Jaunty Ideas and Recommendations

[Mazza558]

1. New Theme!

We were promised a new default theme for Ibex but it was never to be. We got a community themes package and a new wallpaper, but no other changes. Ubuntu needs to look more modern, with a blending of title bar and the actual window. We've seen this in lots of themes before, but it needs to be added to intrepid.

We also need a better icon set which matches the new GTK theme.

2. Theme Voting System

What we need is a better way of deciding on the new theme. Perhaps a system similar to Ubuntu Brainstorm, where we vote on the best theme to be used as default. There could be sections for icon themes and the default wallpaper too. By a month before release, the choices are narrowed down to the best 5, then the best 2, then a final vote for the default theme. The KDE4 devs did this when deciding on a default wallpaper.

3. Better search system

We have tracker as the search tool, but there is no applet on the panels to make use of this. Maybe next to the shiny new pidgin/shutdown menu, there could be a search button which expands into a search box on the bar when you click on it. This would then function similar to the Finder bar on OSX.

4. Improved pidgin/shutdown applet

This thing's a step in the right direction, but it needs a button to sign in to Pidgin if you're not already. It also needs a plugin system so other messaging programs can be added.

5. Better Gnome menu

We still don't have a very good menu for Ubuntu. The problem is made worse by the lack of good alternatives. The current menus work, but it takes far too long to open some applications. The Places menu is by and large fine, but the applications and system menus are too fiddly. Open System > Preferences now and it'll probably stretch nearly the whole of the screen from top to bottom.

We need a tabbed system instead, where the category of application lies at the top and spreads across horizontally, and the applications appear in a grid below, with large icons and small text. This could also apply to the system menu. The places menu could simply have a list spreading horizontally below the top bar. Of course, there should be a search box for each menu, allowing people to find their app even quicker.

[meastp]

Check where Gnome (and hopefully others) is heading [1]. It should address many of your issues.

Hopefully, this will attract developers from the whole (free)desktop community, not just Gnome people...

[1] http://live.gnome.org/Boston2008/GUIHackfest/WindowManagementAndMore

[knn]

Ubuntu needs to look more modern, with a blending of title bar and the actual window. We've seen this in lots of themes before, but it needs to be added to intrepid.



No.
Blending the titlebar and the rest of the window is a usability problem, because you can only move the window by dragging the titlebar. Everyone is obsessed with this, probably because OS X does it, but on OS X you can move the window by dragging the empty area on the toolbar. The Oxygen theme in KDE4 received a last minute change before the release of 4.0 to include a separating line because usability won over looks (fortunately).

[Mazza558]

No.
Blending the titlebar and the rest of the window is a usability problem, because you can only move the window by dragging the titlebar. Everyone is obsessed with this, probably because OS X does it, but on OS X you can move the window by dragging the empty area on the toolbar. The Oxygen theme in KDE4 received a last minute change before the release of 4.0 to include a separating line because usability won over looks (fortunately).

Well, the GTK could be modded to allow this to work.

[knn]

Well, the GTK could be modded to allow this to work.

Yes it could, but then there's the problem of non-gtk programs: either you blend them, but then you get the usability problem again, or you don't blend them and then they look bad.
I think Oxygen is a good example: the lead artist wanted to have the titlebar blended with the window, but the developers overruled him because you couldn't tell which window is the active one*, forked the windec (it was called Ozone IIRC), colored the titlebar and shipped it as default instead of Oxygen. Right now the Oxygen windec has colored stripes and a separator, which is nicer and still usable.

*See also: Paul Thurrott's review of Vista (http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp), scroll down to "Glass Windows"

[OrangeCrate]

I'm almost reluctant to throw this into the idea pot, because I know that 90% of you won't care about this one, but the 10% of us that are left handed, would certainly have interest.

There's an old Brainstorm thread on providing a left hand cursor automatically when a person chooses a left hand mouse configuration.

I'd sure like to see one. Those that are available in the wild are not very good, or are simply a flip of a right handed cursor with the "clock" running backwards.

[Naddiseo]

I'm almost reluctant to throw this into the idea pot, because I know that 90% of you won't care about this one, but the 10% of us that are left handed, would certainly have interest.

There's an old Brainstorm thread on providing a left hand cursor automatically when a person chooses a left hand mouse configuration.

I'd sure like to see one. Those that are available in the wild are not very good, or are simply a flip of a right handed cursor with the "clock" running backwards.

+1

Though I'm ambidextrous, (with right dominance,) I use my mouse on the left side. I've always thought the cursor looked a little odd when I'm using the left handed mouse.

[OrangeCrate]

+1

Though I'm ambidextrous, (with right dominance,) I use my mouse on the left side. I've always thought the cursor looked a little odd when I'm using the left handed mouse.

Thanks for the vote. As said, it would be a nice touch for the cursor to switch when you choose the left hand mouse option.

-----

BTW, though not perfect, I use Aero Left from Gnome Looks. On the desktop the timer runs clockwise. On Firefox, it runs counterclockwise. (You do kind of get used to it after a while, but it's definitely just a hack job. The real deal would be cool.)

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aero+Mouse+Cursors+with+Drop+Shadow?content=67833

[Mazza558]

I'm left-handed when writing but I use my right hand for using a mouse. Strange, eh?

[Slug71]

A new Theme
Faster
EXT4
Grub2
A working PA
LSB 4.0

A very solid and stable Release and where Everything just works!! Even if it means delaying Final release. I think Jaunty needs to be a turning point so that future versions can get improved on. At the moment we're still fixing problems left behind from the last release everytime as well as trying to improve things.

That Theme voting thing and the left hand mouse icon are good ideas too.

[Doji]

Point #3 sounds a heck of a lot like the deskbar. You might wanna try that out.

[jerrylamos]

Go back to 8.04 level of compiz as soon as possible.

Many people have "do not work" or "pc freezes up" with 8.10 level of compiz. Probably runs as desired on late level high end developers hardware. Ordinary users on existing hardware is another matter. See Launchpad Bug #259385.

Jerry

[smartboyathome]

5. Better Gnome menu

We still don't have a very good menu for Ubuntu. The problem is made worse by the lack of good alternatives. The current menus work, but it takes far too long to open some applications. The Places menu is by and large fine, but the applications and system menus are too fiddly. Open System > Preferences now and it'll probably stretch nearly the whole of the screen from top to bottom.

We need a tabbed system instead, where the category of application lies at the top and spreads across horizontally, and the applications appear in a grid below, with large icons and small text. This could also apply to the system menu. The places menu could simply have a list spreading horizontally below the top bar. Of course, there should be a search box for each menu, allowing people to find their app even quicker.

No... just, no...

With the exception of the Preferences menu (which IMO needs subfolders), the menu's perfect. Theres no need to overcomplicate things with fancy menus like USP or MintMenu. KISS: Keep it simple, stupid. That is the principal I think we should use, and it definitely should keep applying here.

[aaronb]

The Ubuntu Dust theme should be included by default. I using it now in 8.10 and it seems very complete and smart.

[smartboyathome]

The Ubuntu Dust theme should be included by default. I using it now in 8.10 and it seems very complete and smart.

It can't be until several bugs in applications which adopt GTK themes are fixed (Firefox and OpenOffice, I'm looking at you).

[Half-Left]

A new Theme
Faster
EXT4
Grub2
A working PA
LSB 4.0

A very solid and stable Release and where Everything just works!! Even if it means delaying Final release. I think Jaunty needs to be a turning point so that future versions can get improved on. At the moment we're still fixing problems left behind from the last release everytime as well as trying to improve things.

That Theme voting thing and the left hand mouse icon are good ideas too.

Thats what happens when you have a six month cycle, you asking the impossible pretty much. The only way your going to get this is to not have so bleeding edge software, software shouldn't make it into the last minute.

I think they should freeze the software after 3 months and have 3 months solid bug fixing.

[AlphaMack]

Here are my ideas.

Themes. I believe that Dust needs to be revisited, improved upon, and considered. It is the most professional-looking GTK2 theme I have ever come across with Shiki-Colors as a possible runner-up. However, the default Human icons have become quite dated and need to go. Preferably, we should have an icon set that looks less cartoonish and more stylish. Crashbit ought to be a good place to start for ideas. I'm rocking Dust with Crashbit Ubuntu and I'm still blown away by how well the two fit together.

Fonts. Subpixel smoothing should be turned on by default, and Ibex defaulting to slight hinting is a good start.

Compiz. I still have to turn it off because it causes my machine to kernel panic. Moreover, try playing something like Planet Penguin Racer in full screen mode while having Update Manager open or even System Monitor in one of your panels. You'll notice the black rectangles appearing.

PulseAudio. I installed plenty of games with sound that won't work because of PulseAudio (e.g. Virus Killer, Metal Blob Solid, Open Invaders, etc.). Audacity and other OSS apps need to be brought on board.

Multimedia. Brasero still needs work in my book. Try burning a backup of your home and watch it attempt to follow every link. There needs to be a k3b-like option where you can selectively follow links, all of them, or none at all.

[Gina]

I'm almost reluctant to throw this into the idea pot, because I know that 90% of you won't care about this one, but the 10% of us that are left handed, would certainly have interest.

There's an old Brainstorm thread on providing a left hand cursor automatically when a person chooses a left hand mouse configuration.

I'd sure like to see one. Those that are available in the wild are not very good, or are simply a flip of a right handed cursor with the "clock" running backwards.I'm in the majority in the western world being right-handed but I like to support minorities and left-handers are a very large minority - I have several left-handed friends and am aware of their problems and annoyances. There's support for various disabilities so why not a minority of able-bodied people? I gather there are left-handed mouse functions - so that's good, but it seems the support could go further.

Yes, I fully support your request.

[Mazza558]

No... just, no...

With the exception of the Preferences menu (which IMO needs subfolders), the menu's perfect. Theres no need to overcomplicate things with fancy menus like USP or MintMenu. KISS: Keep it simple, stupid. That is the principal I think we should use, and it definitely should keep applying here.

A menu like I proposed would be just as simple, not to mention a lot easier/quicker to use.

[knn]

The Ubuntu Dust theme should be included by default. I using it now in 8.10 and it seems very complete and smart.

Quick! Which window is active?
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1189/dustqv2.th.png (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dustqv2.png)http://img399.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

And now? (You don't even have to open the image, you can see it in the thumbnail)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/819/humanla6.th.png (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humanla6.png)http://img142.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

See also: post #3 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6081302#post6081302)

[Slug71]

A new Theme
Faster
EXT4
Grub2
A working PA
LSB 4.0

A very solid and stable Release and where Everything just works!! Even if it means delaying Final release. I think Jaunty needs to be a turning point so that future versions can get improved on. At the moment we're still fixing problems left behind from the last release everytime as well as trying to improve things.

That Theme voting thing and the left hand mouse icon are good ideas too.

Thats what happens when you have a six month cycle, you asking the impossible pretty much. The only way your going to get this is to not have so bleeding edge software, software shouldn't make it into the last minute.

I think they should freeze the software after 3 months and have 3 months solid bug fixing.

Grub2, Ext4 , LSB 4.0 and Kernel 2.6.28 could all be put into Alpha 1 as long as Alpha 1 come out after Nov.11 as thats when LSB 4.0 will be released.

Agree that Freeze should maybe be after 3 months.

[bash]

To the people suggesting a freeze after 3 months: This would be impractical with the current release dates. The new GNOME version always comes out one month before the Ubuntu release. So freezing after 3 months we would either be stuck with an old version or the current development version. Also I don't know if such a freeze would work in practice. When I look at the amount of moaning that happened just 2 weeks before the release to include insert favorite application here and the complaints that OOo 3 was not included, there seem to be at least some users that want bleeding edge. I guess it's hard to satisfy everyone and it's not really possible to get both absolutly stable and bug-free and bleeding edge at the same time.

[Slug71]

To the people suggesting a freeze after 3 months: This would be impractical with the current release dates. The new GNOME version always comes out one month before the Ubuntu release. So freezing after 3 months we would either be stuck with an old version or the current development version. Also I don't know if such a freeze would work in practice. When I look at the amount of moaning that happened just 2 weeks before the release to include insert favorite application here and the complaints that OOo 3 was not included, there seem to be at least some users that want bleeding edge. I guess it's hard to satisfy everyone and it's not really possible to get both absolutly stable and bug-free and bleeding edge at the same time.

Hear what you're saying. I too like bleeding edge stuff but i dont like how we're still fixing stuff from the previous version either.
Intrepid was working perfect for me from Alpha 4 through RC. When i did a fresh install of the Final, things are now broken. WTF??:mad:

Its kind of a catch 22 situation but maybe we should fall behind with Gnome. So the version JJ would get will now go on to KK. This will probably help Compiz improve too which also seems to have gone backwards with Intrepid.

The missed version of Gnome could always be put into the Backports like OOo.3 was if people want it.

[OrangeCrate]

Hear what you're saying. I too like bleeding edge stuff but i dont like how we're still fixing stuff from the previous version either.
Intrepid was working perfect for me from Alpha 4 through RC. When i did a fresh install of the Final, things are now broken. WTF??:mad:

Its kind of a catch 22 situation but maybe we should fall behind with Gnome. So the version JJ would get will now go on to KK. This will probably help Compiz improve too which also seems to have gone backwards with Intrepid.

The missed version of Gnome could always be put into the Backports like OOo.3 was if people want it.

I found this comment by jdong quite interesting. Thought I'd share it...

...Actually, We do NOT advise a clean install every time you want to upgrade. The upgrade path receives far more testing and attention than the clean install path. The official recommended method for moving to a new version of Ubuntu is to use a supported upgrade procedure!

Post #96 in this thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=936696&page=10

[Slug71]

I found this comment by jdong quite interesting. Thought I'd share it...



Post #96 in this thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=936696&page=10

That kinda seems backwards, no?

[Slug71]

http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/15155/image/1/ (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/15155/)

Some of my ideas

If there is anything missing that there is good support for, ill gladly add it.

[lifestream]

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1189/dustqv2.th.png (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dustqv2.png)http://img399.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

It's even worse on my setup, because instead of brown, the top "glowy line" is black, so it gives the window a bit of a "bevel".

I do like dust, though :)

[amano]

The desktop theme roughly discussed their plans for Jaunty:

For Jaunty, the desktop team wants to concentrate on bug triage catch-up, bug fixing, and cleanup. So far there do not seem to be major structural changes coming from upstreams, except kernel modesetting (whose adoption in Jaunty isn't decided yet), so this is an ideal cycle for working on stability and quality.

* Arne: continue to work on fonts, language-selector, font-selector, plus a new item: ibus (a candidate to replace scim); will register specs for language-selector UI improvements and ibus
* Bryce: assist on some that ubuntu-x community members are taking the lead on (config tools), switch -ati from XAA to EXA, work on ongoing X.org testing (XSmoke), work on OEM X.org bugs, put a lot of time into getting distro X bugs closed as I'm having good momentum with upstream at getting fixes
* Chris: get release exception and OOo 3.1 in, get OOo languages switched to Pootle/Rosetta (will register spec), get OOo split builds working
*

Jonathan: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs; mainly focusing on UI cleanup and bug fixing, too
*

Martin: concentrate on triaging and fixing bugs, robustifying the apport retracers (apport-retracer-maintenance), and working on CD downsizing
* Sebastien: concentrate on bug fixing, plus the usual GNOME 2.26.x

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-18



To summarize some suggestions from this threaad, some things that should be done rather early in the circle:
* Pulseaudio branch is already merged. Even a newer version is up already.

* Empathy should be made the default soon again to see if it can make it this time to replace Pidgin. They can revert to the trusted Pidgin again, if it doesn't look ready for the Beta release.

* Add cruft remover to the default install again. To have it visible to all testers.

* Merge OpenOffice 3.x soon to find all the bugs. That can be vital to Intrepid-proposed as well.

*Merge the 180.x drivers soon to be able to track their bugs (and please backport 177.82 to let me have compiz without troubles again).

*Maybe merge the current Firefox 3.1 betas to track down their bugs. If it doesn't look good for the Ubuntu Beta, they should revert to Firefox 3.04+ again.

*As I believe that the new GDM will hit Ubuntu this time, please merge the new 2.25 GDM version together with Mirco Müller's much anticipated new face browser plugin early in the cycle. To let us find the bugs early.

Things should be tested and reverted much earlier than before.

[plun]

To summarize, some things that should be done early in the circle:
* Pulseaudio branch is already merged. Even a newer version is up already.

* Empathy should be made the default soon again to see if it can make it this time to replace Pidgin. They can revert to the trusted Pidgin again, if it doesn't look ready for the Beta release.

* Add cruft remover to the default install again. To have it visible to all testers.

* Merge OpenOffice 3.x soon to find all the bugs. That can be vital to Intrepid-proposed as well.

*Merge the 180.x drivers soon to be able to track their bugs (and please backport 177.82 to let me have compiz without troubles again).

*Maybe merge the current Firefox 3.1 betas to track down their bugs. If it doesn't look good for the Ubuntu Beta, they should revert to Firefox 3.04+ again.

Looks good ! :)

I have asked fta about FF3.1 and its important... its better to have "whinings" during tests then when its ready.

Wait for a signal from upstream that something is "stable" is just stupid. Better that we find bugs and contributes to upstream.

I also hopes that the kernel team chooses a 2.6.28 kernel as soon as possible. 2.6.27 was terrible on my PC.

[Slug71]

* Merge OpenOffice 3.x soon to find all the bugs. That can be vital to Intrepid-proposed as well.

*Merge the 180.x drivers soon to be able to track their bugs (and please backport 177.82 to let me have compiz without troubles again).

*Maybe merge the current Firefox 3.1 betas to track down their bugs. If it doesn't look good for the Ubuntu Beta, they should revert to Firefox 3.04+ again.

Looks good ! :)

I have asked fta about FF3.1 and its important... its better to have "whinings" during tests then when its ready.

Wait for a signal from upstream that something is "stable" is just stupid. Better that we find bugs and contributes to upstream.

I also hopes that the kernel team chooses a 2.6.28 kernel as soon as possible. 2.6.27 was terrible on my PC.

Sounding very good so far!

I agree FF3.1 should be brought in ASAP if bug fixing is going to be the game for Jaunty.
I dont really care if OOo3.1 is in or not as long as 3.0.1 will be there.
And of course Kernel 2.6.28 needs to be there ASAP to pave the way for 2.6.29 :)


really digging this "bug triage catch-up, bug fixing, and cleanup" too.

[bash]

For Jaunty, the desktop team wants to concentrate on bug triage catch-up, bug fixing, and cleanup. So far there do not seem to be major structural changes coming from upstreams, except kernel modesetting (whose adoption in Jaunty isn't decided yet), so this is an ideal cycle for working on stability and quality.

* Arne: continue to work on fonts, language-selector, font-selector, plus a new item: ibus (a candidate to replace scim); will register specs for language-selector UI improvements and ibus
* Bryce: assist on some that ubuntu-x community members are taking the lead on (config tools), switch -ati from XAA to EXA, work on ongoing X.org testing (XSmoke), work on OEM X.org bugs, put a lot of time into getting distro X bugs closed as I'm having good momentum with upstream at getting fixes
* Chris: get release exception and OOo 3.1 in, get OOo languages switched to Pootle/Rosetta (will register spec), get OOo split builds working
*

Jonathan: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs; mainly focusing on UI cleanup and bug fixing, too
*

Martin: concentrate on triaging and fixing bugs, robustifying the apport retracers (apport-retracer-maintenance), and working on CD downsizing
* Sebastien: concentrate on bug fixing, plus the usual GNOME 2.26.x

This statement left me wondering. So for the version after the LTS, which people expected to be extremely stable and polished, they decided to mainly focus on stability and polishing. Shouldn't that have been done last version?

[Slug71]

Youd think.

There is however 2 more versions before the next LTS. So lets hope things get better. :)

[plun]

really digging this "bug triage catch-up, bug fixing, and cleanup" too.

Well, there are a few really important key functions and those must be
included as early as possible in a development version.

Waiting for Debian is not a good idea, IMHO...

We have seen a late "mess" in both Hardy and Intrepid and its mainly because of too late arrivals of key components.

Its better to take as much as possible during early alpha stages.

Use SVN versions....!!!

Ext4 is also important for testing but its depends on the 2.6.28 kernel.

:)

[Slug71]

Well, there are a few really important key functions and those must be
included as early as possible in a development version.

Waiting for Debian is not a good idea, IMHO...

We have seen a late "mess" in both Hardy and Intrepid and its mainly because of too late arrivals of key components.

Its better to take as much as possible during early alpha stages.

Use SVN versions....!!!

Ext4 is also important for testing but its depends on the 2.6.28 kernel.

:)

Absolutely! Im hoping all the key features will be in by Alpha 3 except for Gnome and 2.6.29 of course.

[Changturkey]

Incremental visual overhaul, finishing in 10.04, would be nice.