8.10 and still no new theme?!?

[turezky]

Did anybody mention that Ubuntu got to it's release of 8.10 and it still got no theme significantly different from its predecessor... I'm really disappointed... Waited so much, and here you go with the good old "human" which makes me vomit...
Uhh... Have to customize it all again with... ah.. whatever.. :(

[smartboyathome]

Did anybody mention that Ubuntu got to it's release of 8.10 and it still got no theme significantly different from its predecessor... I'm really disappointed... Waited so much, and here you go with the good old "human" which makes me vomit...
Uhh... Have to customize it all again with... ah.. whatever.. :(

Its because Mark's new artists didn't produce a new theme (yet) and the community's themes just weren't ready due to bugs in several apps which adopts the themes.

[prshah]

Waited so much, and here you go with the good old "human"

You can use the "blubuntu" theme if you're averse to orangish-brown;sudo apt-get install blubuntu-look

[snowpine]

Coke cans will always be red and white, and Ubuntu will always be brown and orange. It's called brand identity....

[davinci_cairo]

Why you need new default theme?
You can use any theme as you like!
Try ultimate-edition-theme pack (http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/ultimate-edition-theme+pack?content=88491), by downloading and installing deb pack, or choose any other theme from http://www.gnome-look.org :)

[jedimasterk]

Just be thankful that with Ubuntu, or any other Linux distro, you don't need to purchase a theme, icon, etc, manager. Like Windows with Stardock etc. It will come eventually!.

[hartl_vienna]

I can't believe it. Is it true that there is no new default theme in Intrepid? :???:

[smartboyathome]

I can't believe it. Is it true that there is no new default theme in Intrepid? :???:

Its true, there is no new theme.

[_sAm_]

Open Synaptic and install:
Community themes(includes Dust, Kin, New Wave)
Ubuntustudio-sounds

Love both New Wave and Dust, but new wave is working best.

[MadsRH]

I'm using Dust witch is a very professional looking theme.
Check out this blog post: http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/10/23/a-new-refreshing-look-for-ubuntu/

[seancarlgrech]

you need no new default themes...

as you can get themes from http://www.gnome-look.org/ FOR FREE....

[turezky]

Guys, it's not that I'm "averse" of the color palette used in the theme (I pretty much like the orange-brownish ubuntu look - and it's original), it's that the theme practically didn't change since it's creation. A new theme was promised for the Hardy (theoretically, because it would be the next LTS, and that it should have marked the beginning of new LTS era, or whatever), and then as the Artwork Team didn't manage to produce it in time, they postponed it to the Intrepid release.
One of the major reasons I was waiting for Intrepid was the new refreshed look, but it's just ain't there. And I literary don't understand what does Artwork Team do at all... We see the same icons, the same window border, same layout... I wonder how Mark Shuttleworth plans to beat Apple with this prehistoric "weapon".
Btw, thanks for the hints, and I do already use both gnome-look and ubuntu-art to their max. It's just there to few really outstanding and complete themes. On the other hand these sites are just flooded with Vista-ish and Mac-ish fakes... I don't want to make my Ubuntu look like them... And if I would, I'd get one (Mac or Vista).
I mean c'mon... The default look IS important. It builds the brand identity as snowpine mentioned. You cannot just stick with the same theme (which probably was stunning years ago) for ages, especially today, when the appearance is non-the-less important than the functionality (hint: Apple's success)...

[turezky]

Wanna poll? :)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=936840

[phoenix_snake]

Just be thankful that with Ubuntu, or any other Linux distro, you don't need to purchase a theme, icon, etc, manager. Like Windows with Stardock etc. It will come eventually!.
you can install themes on windows without purchasing stuff to

[SunnyRabbiera]

Open Synaptic and install:
Community themes(includes Dust, Kin, New Wave)
Ubuntustudio-sounds

Love both New Wave and Dust, but new wave is working best.

yes exciting new clearlooks variants, yawn.
How many variants of clearlooks do we bloody need?

[Giant Speck]

Is the new default theme supposed to automatically install when upgrading, because when I upgraded to 8.10, it wasn't there.

Not that I have any problem with that. I hate the default theme. :)

[phoenix_snake]

Is the new default theme supposed to automatically install when upgrading, because when I upgraded to 8.10, it wasn't there.

Not that I have any problem with that. I hate the default theme. :)
yes it should be there automatically :)

[Giant Speck]

yes it should be there automatically :)

Well it's not there for me. Perhaps it's because I upgraded from KDE and not GNOME?

Either way, whatever. I didn't want to use it. I just wanted to know why it's not there.

I absolutely love the default wallpaper, though. Much more professional looking than the Hardy default wallpaper.

[phoenix_snake]

Well it's not there for me. Perhaps it's because I upgraded from KDE and not GNOME?

Either way, whatever. I didn't want to use it. I just wanted to know why it's not there.

I absolutely love the default wallpaper, though. Much more professional looking than the Hardy default wallpaper.
are you on kubuntu then? oh in that case it won't be there....

[swj]

I'm using Dust witch is a very professional looking theme.
Check out this blog post: http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/10/23/a-new-refreshing-look-for-ubuntu/

...this theme is is buggy (Max. a window and look at the top right and left corners)....then again the Human theme (window manager) is buggy with Nvidia+Compiz.

I give up and use clearlooks. ;)

[jedimasterk]

...this theme is is buggy (Max. a window and look at the top right and left corners)....then again the Human theme (window manager) is buggy with Nvidia+Compiz.

I give up and use clearlooks. ;)

You would think they would have fixed that. If this were Apple, a GUI acting buggy like this would have never made it out the door!.

[smartboyathome]

You would think they would have fixed that. If this were Apple, a GUI acting buggy like this would have never made it out the door!.

But Apple also doesn't have tons of hardware to support. Maybe if some of the people who complained fixed stuff, Ubuntu would be better.

[lotharjade]

I say that dark Dust Theme looks awesome =D>. Maybe have it so it has transparency like glass in parts, but other than that I think that is awesome. On my bright monitor, the dark menu bars help combat my eye fatigue.

I do a similar thing with Firefox's dark night time Shuttle Launch theme. It seems a bit odd, but it helps focus you on the content area, and is a beat less weary on the eyes.

[jedimasterk]

But Apple also doesn't have tons of hardware to support. Maybe if some of the people who complained fixed stuff, Ubuntu would be better.

All Nvidia cards have Nvidia Chips. ATI cards ATI chips. 2 manufacturers to deal with!!. You make sound like there is a hundred chip manufacturers out there.

[smartboyathome]

All Nvidia cards have Nvidia Chips. ATI cards ATI chips. 2 manufacturers to deal with!!. You make sound like there is a hundred chip manufacturers out there.

Theres Nvidia, ATI, Intel, Via, and probably others I don't know about. All these require different drivers. There aren't one hundred, but there are many different brands of video cards.

[Giant Speck]

are you on kubuntu then? oh in that case it won't be there....

I use both KDE and GNOME.

[xakh]

Why has no one mentioned the DarkRoom theme? I love it! I use it with a mix of basic clearlooks. I think it's just fantastic.

[jedimasterk]

The Darkroom theme is plane UGLY!!. It doesn't work well with Compiz and vidio card drivers. The upper part of the toolbar will flash white every so often. This is also a big problem with OpenOffice. Best bet to switch to Emerald if you want to use Human or Dark Looks. Also Fonts in applications like thunderbird are very difficult to see on toolbars with darkroom theme. You can't even see them at all without highlighting them (SEND and COMPOSE for example).

[supernaut]

The usual farce, sadly. Canonical can't even begin to dream of taking on the big boys with this kind of **** poor level of organisation.

[Crafty Kisses]

You can use the "blubuntu" theme if you're averse to orangish-brown;sudo apt-get install blubuntu-look

I really like BluBuntu, it's really smooth. :)

[wfp]

I just sent a email to Deviantarts pr department. In the email i said it would be a good idea for maybe for deviantart to contact canonical, and running some kind of contest of creating a new theme for the next release of ubuntu. There is a lot of talent there i am using one of the members icon packs right now, and it looks great. Thought that would pretty cool if it worked.

[jedimasterk]

Good Luck!. Great idea, but Canonical has their own idea about what they want Ubuntu to look like. I tried that with Microsoft one year, cause I thought XP's wallpapers were bad (only 800X600 res). Thay basically told me that I was soliciting my ideas and that I was not welcome. No thanks or anything. Canonical may be different, but I think thay will make their own, no matter how good looking others may be. Look at Dust vs Dark Room. Dust was never a included theme, only through synaptic (community themes). Anyway good luck!.

[jedimasterk]

What Canonical needs is paid "Professional" artists, like what Apple and Microsoft have. They don't use Deviantarts artists. You need Professionals who use Photoshop, etcc. and specialize in designing professional elegant GUI's.

[jedimasterk]

I read that Mark hired one professional to run the Arts department. Come on Mark you need to hire a whole professional team!.

[AlphaMack]

Shiki-Colors, anyone?

[turezky]

Shiki is nice though... I really thought of switching to that theme... But something lacks in that theme, and I don't know exactly what :) It's just not complete. And it's also not for the masses... I think's that's the major obstacle for Ubuntu. They have to draw something EVERYBODY will enjoy. That's not the case of the Darkroom. There are as many people loving it as many hating it. I personally hate :)
I tried community themes... Eeeergh... Nothing special there, very original though! Not yet another Mac-Vista-clone stuff.
I think Gilouche is a big promise, but it needs serious workarounds. There Murrine-NeoGilouche (which I am actually using), which could be launched en-masse after polishing it a bit... But that's just another shout in the crowd...
jedimasterk, Shuttleworth hired a team indeed :) But he did it after the artwork deadline for Ibex :) And it was like a joke, when I read the news about it :) Then all my dreams of having desktop with mind-blowing design just crashed...
Well, guys, we only have an option to wait for the Jaunty release, and wait for that newly hired team to produce something for the community... As community fails when it comes to sexy design. That's just what is not done by community...
6 months to go...

[turezky]

Shiki is nice though... I really thought of switching to that theme... But something lacks in that theme, and I don't know exactly what :) It's just not complete. And it's also not for the masses... I think's that's the major obstacle for Ubuntu. They have to draw something EVERYBODY will enjoy. That's not the case of the Darkroom. There are as many people loving it as many hating it. I personally hate :)
I tried community themes... Eeeergh... Nothing special there, very original though! Not yet another Mac-Vista-clone stuff.
I think Gilouche is a big promise, but it needs serious workarounds. There Murrine-NeoGilouche (which I am actually using), which could be launched en-masse after polishing it a bit... But that's just another shout in the crowd...
jedimasterk, Shuttleworth hired a team indeed :) But he did it after the artwork deadline for Ibex :) And it was like a joke, when I read the news about it :) Then all my dreams of having desktop with mind-blowing design just crashed...
Well, guys, we only have an option to wait for the Jaunty release, and wait for that newly hired team to produce something for the community... As community fails when it comes to sexy design. That's just what is not done by community...
6 months to go...

[jedimasterk]

I would suggest making the Dust Theme default on Jaunty with a fuction where you could alter the color of the theme, like a color chooser function. And add some new wallpapers and icons to go with theme. And no rabbit wallpapers!.
And add a new elegant sound theme.

[alex.rayu]

Yes, the default theme is not bad, but it's nothing compared to Mac theme. Starting with the fact that it's orange, which attracts attention. The Tango icons are like colored kindergarten plastic toys.

I am a web designer and if I made such interfaces, it would not be long before I would boil down to toy shops designs.

Interface should be helping, but not attracting attention. That is why Apple uses grays there. And Apple icons are never too colored - they have more of the natural colors, imitating real life objects.

Ubuntu interface is just a style for Gnome - why is it called "Human" in the 1st place? Nothing special in it. Nothing sexy at all.

The Ibex wallpaper is the only cool thing in all of this.

With KDE going 4.x and Gnome just adding little things, Ubuntu just reusing all the same eternal theme for many years now, there is not even perspective of reaching MacOS X - not even close.

The idea behind Macs is that they are stable, easy, unobtrusive. And OpenSource developers keep telling us, "We will do what WE want, not what you want." and if you turn their attention to some aspect of it you will be treated rude, with "Hey, we do it all for free anyway, so shut up and enjoy" - king of response at best. And while this king of response may be completely just, it indicates that whoever gives it is really NOT ready to go into serious competition.

I do want to see Ubuntu grow to where it can compete with Macs, but as long as it just redresses Gnome that will never happen.

[stinger30au]

Did anybody mention that Ubuntu got to it's release of 8.10 and it still got no theme significantly different from its predecessor... I'm really disappointed... Waited so much, and here you go with the good old "human" which makes me vomit...
Uhh... Have to customize it all again with... ah.. whatever.. :(


i really dont get what the big deal is over the default theme

if you dont like the theme it ships with, then d/l a different one here

http://www.gnome-look.org/

if the biggest complaint anyone can find for an o/s is they dont like the colours, then man, the team behind ubuntu are nothing short of champions!

[phoenix_snake]

i really dont get what the big deal is over the default theme

if you dont like the theme it ships with, then d/l a different one here

http://www.gnome-look.org/

if the biggest complaint anyone can find for an o/s is they dont like the colours, then man, the team behind ubuntu are nothing short of champions!
here is another complaint an update broke the network manager and suspend to disk only works properly with gnome's built in compositing but with compiz it works sometimes and doesn't sometimes.

[alex.rayu]

Ubuntu theme is bad, but 99% of gnome-looks themes are even worse. And I wouldn't go with a dark theme like Dust, since it really breaks the black-on-white paradigm (darker text on lighter unobtrusive interface)/

I am using ubuntu + mac theme + compiz right now. That makes it look decent. But take Ubuntu without AWN, with the default theme - and it's like Windows XP !

The look for a serious system should be corporate, not kindergarten. There are hundreds of artists/developers out there, who could cooperate and produce something good. Instead, they are just doing something OWN. Hundreds on bad themes, hundreds of bad apps.

If canonical does not make a strategic decision about what it really takes to compete with macs, it will not be much successful.

[alex.rayu]

here is another complaint an update broke the network manager and suspend to disk only works properly with gnome's built in compositing but with compiz it works sometimes and doesn't sometimes.

Update a few days ago broke my Pulse Audio. I have been reading numerous forums threads with the same issue, with no easy solution. How could anyone release such updates? How can anyone be pressing (Gnome developers!) raw servers like PulseAudio, that does not work well, that does not work with wine?

Away with the "It's free so faults are justified" mentality!

[Joe_Bishop]

don't cry. Try to remove .gconf* and *gnome*

[alex.rayu]

don't cry. Try to remove .gconf* and *gnome*

An impressive solution for an OS that seeks to beat MacOS!

- Oh, my Safari does not display correctly, oh, my sound is off!
- Don't cry! Recompile WebKit and reinstall all *quartz*

I can't even imagine that happen to Mac.

[phoenix_snake]

Update a few days ago broke my Pulse Audio. I have been reading numerous forums threads with the same issue, with no easy solution. How could anyone release such updates? How can anyone be pressing (Gnome developers!) raw servers like PulseAudio, that does not work well, that does not work with wine?

Away with the "It's free so faults are justified" mentality!
exactly they have this idea

"hey its free so you have no right to complain"

:)

There are hundreds of artists/developers out there, who could cooperate and produce something good. Instead, they are just doing something OWN. Hundreds on bad themes, hundreds of bad apps.

exactly, people defending the theme always say something like if you don't like it then go to gnome-look and change it, but wait a sec.....

gnome-look hasn't got anything amazing either and even if you do find something decent it may have a bug in openoffice or firefox.

[Linkert]

Why would they change a recipe that works. I love that they added a darker human theme.

[Merk42]

Why would they change a recipe that works.

Given these threads keep cropping up, it seems that for the majority of people, it doesn't work

[alex.rayu]

Why would they change a recipe that works. I love that they added a darker human theme.

In software/it business, there are no recepies that just work. You have to make the newer and better all the time. Besides, simple "works" is not the same. You can use a cheap Volkswagen that works. But if it works like it works, you will never reach or beat Mercedes. And Apple is Mercedes. and apple has a long history of shaking users each time with some new and grand step forward.

So, Canonical should not simply stick to the recepie that allowed it to get to the top of the red-eyed nerd distros, or it will stay there, nothing close to even approaching Apple,

[alex.rayu]

Given these threads keep cropping up, it seems that for the majority of people, it doesn't work

It worked. But it needs to grow. And I see many disappointment around. Not only with Ubuntu, but with Gnome. There are no clear plans for GTK 3. Meanwhile, KDE makes this leap on. While its still raw, some KDE users switched to Gnome. But with KDE 4.2 coming out, I wonder how many Gnome users will switch to KDE? And it's no secret that Ubuntu is not #1 distro in line to support KDE.

Anyway. All these Linux distros are just taking kernel, taking Gnome or KDE, attach them, write a few of their own tools, and voila - a distro. Being free, they can afford nothing more. But here's Ubuntu, showing promise. Being financially supported, but free. It also seemed to listen to the users. And it grew to be world's #1 Linux distro.

But still there's a qualitiative difference by power from Windows and Mac. Whilst there are orange icons on orange background and solutions like "remove *pulseaudio* " to solve the damage done by the update that is supposed to fix, not damage - there is no talk about anything really serious. More serious than a free OS for a bunch of schoolboys and students to play with.

[Linkert]

In software/it business, there are no recepies that just work. You have to make the newer and better all the time. Besides, simple "works" is not the same. You can use a cheap Volkswagen that works. But if it works like it works, you will never reach or beat Mercedes. And Apple is Mercedes. and apple has a long history of shaking users each time with some new and grand step forward.

So, Canonical should not simply stick to the recepie that allowed it to get to the top of the red-eyed nerd distros, or it will stay there, nothing close to even approaching Apple,

I will agree on the Volkswagen/Mercedes part but not that Apple is Mercedes.. (and I use mac 5 days each week)

In my own opinion I feel that a OS should have some standard themes to chose from and if it doesn't please your eyes you can download a 3rd party themes, simple as that. No OS will ever have a enough themes to please everyone.

[alex.rayu]

I will agree on the Volkswagen/Mercedes part but not that Apple is Mercedes.. (and I use mac 5 days each week)

In my own opinion I feel that a OS should have some standard themes to chose from and if it doesn't please your eyes you can download a 3rd party themes, simple as that. No OS will ever have a enough themes to please everyone.

Well, Mercedes in not an exaplary brand because everybody who uses it believes that it is. It is an examplary brand because it answers to certain ojective criteria, and because it is commonly acclaimed to be a powerful and beautiful OS. Even Microsoft copies it. So I believe it is quite objective. But it's not about Apple by and large.

It's about quality, and it's about attitude, that comes in look and feel. And if indifference or patronizing attitude is what comes through... Well this is what Microsoft thinks it can afford.

[interval1066]

Coke cans will always be red and white, and Ubuntu will always be brown and orange. It's called brand identity....

Not on my box. Look, if you like brown and orange, go for it. It doesn't fly in my eyes however.

[Linkert]

Not on my box. Look, if you like brown and orange, go for it. It doesn't fly in my eyes however.

Then you go for 3rd party themes. That simple. :confused:

[alex.rayu]

Then you go for 3rd party themes. That simple. :confused:

Nothing close to being simple. 3 rd party themes mostly suck absolutely, because they were built by amateurs. There should be a choice of a few professionally built themes, good, unobtrusive, high-quality. And if someone wants gleatchy, amateurish, unfinished, bad taste, with unreadable fonts, freaky themes, patched from pieces of other themes, answering more to the quirks of the author, who wanted to be unique, rather than following usability suggestions - then gnome-look.org should be a nice place to start.

Not that all themes are bad there. There are a few themes, that could be used in Ubuntu. But they lack integration with icons, mouse pointers, etc. The next step would be patching Gnome, of course. It is currently on the level of Windows 98 in it's usability. Take that dock at the bottom. Take that terrible Tango theme. Take all these icon themes at Gnome-look.org that only replace a dozen of icons and leave you with an inconsistent look. Take that APT manager that looks unstyled. Take that flickering video/glx problems that they keep pointing fingers at ATI for. Take that lame Rhythmbox that, according to forums, nobody ever uses but that keeps emerging in every distro. Take that Gedit that takes 5 seconds to open, as if it were a whole suite! Take Ekiga, that nobody is using, but it keeps coming pre-installed. Take FSpot that is absolutely lame, that gets critiq for not listening to users, for pushing own ends, bot it gets into every distro. Take that PulseAudio/ALSA/OSS hell that we have been having for about a year now.

These are all usability problems of different weight. So, it's not as simple as putting on another suit on. If Ubuntu will be doing just that, it will suffer from all the same dumb-headedness the OpenSource software world is suffering from.

[Linkert]

Nothing close to being simple. 3 rd party themes mostly suck absolutely, because they were built by amateurs. There should be a choice of a few professionally built themes, good, unobtrusive, high-quality. And if someone wants gleatchy, amateurish, unfinished, bad taste, with unreadable fonts, freaky themes, patched from pieces of other themes, answering more to the quirks of the author, who wanted to be unique, rather than following usability suggestions - then gnome-look.org should be a nice place to start.

Not that all themes are bad there. There are a few themes, that could be used in Ubuntu. But they lack integration with icons, mouse pointers, etc. The next step would be patching Gnome, of course. It is currently on the level of Windows 98 in it's usability. Take that dock at the bottom. Take that terrible Tango theme. Take all these icon themes at Gnome-look.org that only replace a dozen of icons and leave you with an inconsistent look. Take that APT manager that looks unstyled. Take that flickering video/glx problems that they keep pointing fingers at ATI for. Take that lame Rhythmbox that, according to forums, nobody ever uses but that keeps emerging in every distro. Take that Gedit that takes 5 seconds to open, as if it were a whole suite! Take Ekiga, that nobody is using, but it keeps coming pre-installed. Take FSpot that is absolutely lame, that gets critiq for not listening to users, for pushing own ends, bot it gets into every distro. Take that PulseAudio/ALSA/OSS hell that we have been having for about a year now.

These are all usability problems of different weight. So, it's not as simple as putting on another suit on. If Ubuntu will be doing just that, it will suffer from all the same dumb-headedness the OpenSource software world is suffering from.
I'm speechless. Don't really know what to say..

[Orange Kingdom]

It is all about money. Microsoft and Apple have billions to spend.
Ubuntu not , simple as that.

With that perspective Ubuntu and the themes are not bad at all.

[alex.rayu]

It is all about money. Microsoft and Apple have billions to spend.
Ubuntu not , simple as that.

With that perspective Ubuntu and the themes are not bad at all.

That is true. But then Ubuntu will never beat Apple either.

Besides, we are mostly taking about some little things that could be done, but people don't get heard.

And on the larger level, OpenSource guys are just spreading their efforts into more than 400 distros. If they even pursued 3 or 4 most known distros, that would make all the difference in the world. But it's now barbaric separatism. Pursuit for vanity. There are 400 distros, but I will make 401st.

Beating Apple is a challenge for Ubuntu, and it appears Shuttleworth did not really mean it. Its not doable with current way of doing Ubuntu.

[Orange Kingdom]

Organisation of the whole open source community is the key to be more successful. But that's in contradiction with the open source philosophy i think.
Being independent is a big advantage, no company is the boss of the open source community.


Lack of money and organisation are the main problems.
But at the same time it has also its charme.

Don't think that Ubuntu or an other distro will beat Apple in the next decade. Perhaps Apple or Microsoft goes bankrupted, than i give them a good change.:D

[badmedic]

I think Coke tastes better than Pepsi, so Pepsi should make Coke or get out of the soda business...

...oh wait. Maybe I should just drink Coke and quit complaining. :D


Sorry for if this analogy is obnoxious, but there are other operating systems out there if you really can't handle Ubuntu's visual branding.

I agree that Ubuntu has a way to go to "Win at OS" (whatever that implies), but they are doing a hell of a job at providing a quality OS for free. (emphasis on that last part)

[Linkert]

I think Coke tastes better than Pepsi, so Pepsi should make Coke or get out of the soda business...

...oh wait. Maybe I should just drink Coke and quit complaining. :D


Sorry for if this analogy is obnoxious, but there are other operating systems out there if you really can't handle Ubuntu's visual branding.

I agree that Ubuntu has a way to go to "Win at OS" (whatever that implies), but they are doing a hell of a job at providing a quality OS for free. (emphasis on that last part)
+1 The themes are fine!
And i can't seem to understand why there are so many complaining about the new dark human theme.. It's sexy like the Magnum ice cream commercials!

[jedimasterk]

It is all about money. Microsoft and Apple have billions to spend.
Ubuntu not , simple as that.

With that perspective Ubuntu and the themes are not bad at all.

You don't need to spend millions to come out with an elegant professional looking user interface. Ponder this!. What if Apple gave MacOSX a lame user interface, like what Ubuntu, or Fedora has now. Then they said well if you want the beautiful Aqua interface you can download it from Deviantart, or just change it to whatever you want. Macs would not sell!. Steve Jobs is all about style, and that includes little things like an operating system user interface. You put Ubuntu on a thousand computers, you want Ubuntu to look good by default. Your not going to be changing the user interface on a thousand computers to another theme. Get my point!.

[jedimasterk]

In software/it business, there are no recepies that just work. You have to make the newer and better all the time. Besides, simple "works" is not the same. You can use a cheap Volkswagen that works. But if it works like it works, you will never reach or beat Mercedes. And Apple is Mercedes. and apple has a long history of shaking users each time with some new and grand step forward.

So, Canonical should not simply stick to the recepie that allowed it to get to the top of the red-eyed nerd distros, or it will stay there, nothing close to even approaching Apple,

Keep in mind that this is not just Ubuntu vs Apple. But GNU/Linux vs Apple. You also have to include Novell (OpenSuse), which has more cash than Canonical. Red Hat, Debian, etcc. And keep in mind that to run MacOSX, it cost allot more money. Especially if you own a PC and not a Mac. I do think strongly that GNU/Linux distros, could take on Apple. But it will take more than just an interface. Number one ally to Apple and Microsoft is Adobe!. They have products that blow every opensource alternative away. Now if Adobe would port their software to GNU/Linux, Apple would definately be hurting. But I do like Apple, but their holier than thou mentality, needs to go.!. Where is Quicktime, iTunes, Safari, etc for GNU/Linux. And no Wine replies!.

[jedimasterk]

And another thing that GNU/Linux fails to do is compare and promote the applications themselves. It's always about just the operating systems. How about comparing Banshee, Amorok, Sunbird, Audacious etc., with iTunes, Windows Media Player, Winamp, etcc. Or Inkscape with Illustrator. Or Pidgin, vs Yahoo Messenger. Or Xchat with mIRC. Can we talk about these things as well. How about Abiword, and Gnumeric, vs iWorks.

[Merk42]

And another thing that GNU/Linux fails to do is compare and promote the applications themselves. It's always about just the operating systems. How about comparing Banshee, Amorok, Sunbird, Audacious etc., with iTunes, Windows Media Player, Winamp, etcc. Or Inkscape with Illustrator. Or Pidgin, vs Yahoo Messenger. Or Xchat with mIRC. Can we talk about these things as well. How about Abiword, and Gnumeric, vs iWorks.

I think Linux just fails to promote itself period.

When was the last time you saw a commercial for any Linux distro?

[smartboyathome]

I think Linux just fails to promote itself period.

When was the last time you saw a commercial for any Linux distro?

In 2002 I believe was the last time a commercial for Linux came out on TV (thanks to IBM). But when was the last time you saw a Linux business which could put a lot of money into advertising while still maintaining all the development. It costs a lot of money to get on even a minor TV channel. So in order to advertise they would have to drop a lot of developers. Would you like to go the way Microsoft did with Vista, mostly advertising and not a lot of polish on the OS itself?

[HellfireOrison]

8.10 has the dark room theme in the appearances:D

[jedimasterk]

8.10 has the dark room theme in the appearances:D

Dark Room theme is a joke. Plain UGLY!. The Dust Theme should have been the Default new theme, along with a new set of icons and sounds. So much for community contributions!!.

[jedimasterk]

This should be the year of Linux. But guess what 2009 may be the "Return of the Windblows 7" for many newbees to Linux, if we don't start making Linux distributions better looking and less bugs before a release.

[phoenix_snake]

Now if Adobe would port their software to GNU/Linux, Apple would definately be hurting. But I do like Apple, but their holier than thou mentality, needs to go.!. Where is Quicktime, iTunes, Safari, etc for GNU/Linux. And no Wine replies!.

this post should tell you why most companies don't make software for linux because its a nightmare to make.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5992968&postcount=139

How about comparing Banshee, Amorok, Sunbird, Audacious etc., with iTunes, Windows Media Player, Winamp, etcc. Or Inkscape with Illustrator. Or Pidgin, vs Yahoo Messenger. Or Xchat with mIRC. Can we talk about these things as well. How about Abiword, and Gnumeric, vs iWorks.


amarok is probably the best audio player that is actually comparable to iTunes and Windows Media Player but remember WMP plays video as well and iTunes is also a store and has perfect support for the ipod and stuff.

iTunes and WMP are still more polished in my opinion.

"Inkscape with Illustrator." Don't know, never use them.

"Xchat with mIRC" Again I have never used them so I can't compare.

"Pidgin, vs Yahoo Messenger" Yahoo messenger wins, sorry, seriously check out yahoo messenger for Vista, its amazing :)

As for office suites, none of them are as good as Microsoft Office or iWorks.

[alex.rayu]

This should be the year of Linux. But guess what 2009 may be the "Return of the Windblows 7" for many newbees to Linux, if we don't start making Linux distributions better looking and less bugs before a release.

Thats right, it very well may be. Current upsurge of interest in Linux is largely due to Microsoft's failure with Vista to deliver for a long time and then delivering creep. Unless Ubuntu comes close in quality to Apple/Microsoft, it's success will depend on Microsof's failures.

It's clear Open Source has certain limitations. While they may be the best way of partisan war, their separatism and lack of team work stands on the way of making something complete. Canonical is not simply GNU/Linux, like Debian. They have paid people doing things. And that changes things. With money around, they have more chances.

Canonical is not Apple and it's more limited in funds, but hey - you dont need to spend millions to get a decent theme. It does not matter that there are some people who like the orange icons on the orange background - it is objectively inferior in usability. contrast, unobtrusiveness. Its not really bad, but it is inferior esthetically. There re some themes at gnome-look that could after some brushup be used as a systems themes. Sexy brown ice-cream theme is sexy in such a narrow way, that it should not be even considered to be a part of the interface. "Brown something", as somebody here in the forum called it.

Should never let non-designers decide what theme there should be. Cause there will be quirks and likes of all sorts. Orange themes. Pink themes. Purple. Black and gray. Whatever themes with all kings of bad wallpapers, bad fonts.

So ultimately, Canonical does right to make own choice of the look and feel. Polling is also a grand idea. And polling shows that striking majority have negative feelings associated with the new look n feel - they are either disappointed or concerned. There is that polling thread somewhere around.

Let's not ask Ubuntu what it can't do (well if it could unite with some more OpenSource forces to make a better distro that would be the best step it could take). But lets rather tal abut what it CAN do. And finding a good theme is just that.

For ICQ Pidgin is ok.
OpenOffice is OK but their Java platform sucks.
Photos manager - no choice, all lame.
Viewers - have good ones, no problem here.
Audio players - no worthy winamp alternative. Dozens of creepy iTunes alternatives, one of which gets preinstalled in the distro.
GIMP - tried to catch up Photoshop and obviously gave up after Photoshop ran under wine.
Inkscape - it;s quite good, actually.
Arhiver (file roller) - one of the best around, sincerely.
Brasero - excellent. A worthy alternative to Nero.

I guess we have lots of good things. I use Ubuntu on product machine for web design / slicing and dicing actually. Ubuntu started great and its great, bt it needs to grow up. It can't stop now after having come so far. It can't stay with a questionable theme/icons. Interface does not matter only for red-eyed geeks. it matters for common people a whole lot. So, lets get the guys like Acelin back and have them plan and do a buch of good ergonomic themes.

Please dont also take that as an empty rant. I am a big Ubuntu fan, but an objective one.

[AlphaMack]

I find this discussion interesting because I recently switched back to Evolution from Thunderbird and was frustrated with the inconsistency in the icons (up until now I was using Crashbit Ubuntu). Here are some screen grabs to illustrate exactly what Alex is talking about:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-cb.png

Part of the icons are Crashbit and part are Tango. Not good. And it's not just with Evolution; if you have several toolbar items in Firefox (bookmarks, downloads, history, etc.) many of the icon sets will not replace them - only the defaults.

Even Human does not appear consistent in Evolution. Here is an example with HumanElephant-Savane, which is very similar to Human with a few tweaks:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-hes.png

In the end - as much as I hate Tango's cartoonish appearance (but couldn't bother with the Hydroxygen bloat and OS X ripoffs in some place) - I settled with GNOME Colors. It's the only icon set that is consistent across the board and fits in well.

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-gh.png

Even with GNOME Human, I still have reservations with all of the orange, especially since it was designed to complement Shiki-Human. However, I replaced the highlight color to the one used by Dust as the orange border didn't 'fit' in my eyes.

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/wicd1.png?w=300&h=288 (http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/wicd1.png)

And on that note I have to take back what I said in a previous post in the Community Cafe about GNOME Color's cartoonish look against Dust because in the end it's the only complete set in a world of half-baked sets on GNOME-Look.

Edit: I want to also illustrate how fugly some of these icon sets are. Meliae is quite popular around here, but IMO it completely falls off the rails in Evolution:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-mel.png

It must be the envelope.

[turezky]

Totally agree w/ alex.rayu!
But the argument that the theme should not look cartoonish can be discussed :)
The cartoonish appearance is gnome's feature. And I pretty much like it :) I like cartoons, and I think everybody likes cartoons (that's something that could actually unite both designers and geeks). But today, we live in a time of 3D cartoons like IceAge, Monsters Inc., Shrek, Cars and whatever else comes into your mind... The icons and graphics in gnome remind me of soviet era plasticine cartoons :)
I mean, if the designers at Ubuntu, would dwell on this a little one, they would be able to produce something rather unique, and not yet another Mac clone icon theme available from gnome-look.org.

Another important thing I believe forth of mentioning is the lameness of mr. Nautilus. Nobody talked about that... But, guys, it sucks big time, even when compared to Windows' Explorer.
First of all, the sidebar :) It's like a joke! It didn't change in ages, didn't add new functionality and didn't even get close to XP's sidebar :( Oh no, wait! They added the E-J-E-C-T-button near removable drives! God, now it's spectacular!
Second of all, the inability of customizing the sizes of icons! I think that one should be definitely copied from Mac :) Even Vista copied it :) I would really like the feature of customizing the size of the icons precisely, and not by 33-50-67-100-150% :( What if I like 80? or 90? or 125? Does anybody use 33%?
Next in the row... The long file names... Anybody? Why not some sort of substring() function and chop the ones longer then 30, or how much is it necessary to understand what the file is...
One more thing.. But I suppose it's rather personal for me... How to get rid of these nasty back-forward history... This to little buttons, imho, are the most useless and annoying features.. But, for some it's not...

P.S.: I wonder if any of the Artwork Team is reading this... Or whoever is responsible for the design... How loud should we shout to get heard?
I love Ubuntu for the philosophy in the first place, but there are these little details like theme, sound server, fonts, boot-up screen that just make me... "uncomfortable", if you wish, using it...

[alex.rayu]

I agree. Evolution itself has some inclanation to gigantism and handles deleted email very strangely. But overall, good. Icons are a problem.

See, icon sets are huge, gigantic effort. It is harder to make a good icon set then to make a Gnome theme. And this is where Open Source meets it's limitation hugely. I sometimes feel like grabbing photoshop and start doing that, but that needs to be a collaboration project of a dozen of specialists with a clear unifying design goal.

[Merk42]

Lots of things

Well why don't you do some mockups or something, or fund an art/development team to get all this done. Otherwise you're just going on stating, what I feel is, the obvious.

[Linkert]

I nominate alex.rayu as president of the Refresh The Looks Of Ubuntu Project.
Motivation: He's the one that seem to have the most opinions about themes and he writes his opinions in a very pro way!

[Merk42]

I nominate alex.rayu as president of the Refresh The Looks Of Ubuntu Project.
Motivation: He's the one that seem to have the most opinions about themes and he writes his opinions in a very pro way!

Then he'll get assassinated, which is what I'm convinced happened to dannymichael

[alex.rayu]

Then he'll get assassinated, which is what I'm convinced happened to dannymichael

I am full employed in web design/coding, but I am not against cooperating freely with whoever is doing stuff.

I have certain doubts that anybody wants such cooperation and/or help. I mean, if Acelin, who was a part of the design team says he was not listened to... But I do not object of using me to make icons or whatever.

[starcannon]

I'm using Darkroom, its in the default appearance theme manager; I like the brown, and with gnome-look.org just a mouse click away I'm still at a bit of a loss why theming is an issue. You can browse thousands of premades, or with tools readily available create one yourself. Anyway, I like the themes that have been put on by default, haven't seen an ugly ubuntu theme yet, too each their own though.

[Merk42]

I am full employed in web design/coding, but I am not against cooperating freely with whoever is doing stuff.

I have certain doubts that anybody wants such cooperation and/or help. I mean, if Acelin, who was a part of the design team says he was not listened to... But I do not object of using me to make icons or whatever.

I have nothing against you, I merely referencing this very popular thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=477078) dannymichel made a year ago. He had laid out palletes, interfaces, etc, and many loved his ideas.

Then he dropped off the face of the Earth...

[alex.rayu]

I have nothing against you, I merely referencing this very popular thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=477078) dannymichel made a year ago. He had laid out palletes, interfaces, etc, and many loved his ideas.

Then he dropped off the face of the Earth...

Yep. I understood it correctly. I believe I have seen the same with Acelin. Sometimes I feel like grabbing gcc++ and glade, starting editing programs and interfaces. But I must admit, I am weak in C++. Besides, witnessing many talented guys ignored, it makes no sense trying. It's like in Communism, nobody wants all these talented guys and their ideas in the product that does not bring direct profit.

[turezky]

Well, I also would like to collaborate if something new (or reviving something old) is started.
But the problem is... :) I can't draw :) But I can express in words what I like and what I don't. And I think the forum is overpopulated with guys like me :)
Another thing is... Well... I don't know pretty much about collaboration platforms.. How's it done? How meetings take place? How something is decided upon?
I agree on point that the most titanic labour is designing icons... More than that - consistant icons... And where noone has been befor - complete icon themes.
But, if we have enogh contributors... We can split :D In the end, we know how many icons are there...
Well, if we could get Acelin and dannymichel (that latter has damn sexy 3D avatar, that was the sexyness I waz talking about :)) back, and together do something (write some guidelinesj and mockups), and not just talk (I have submitted to that no "decision makers" actually read this post)...
But, hey, it's up to you community :) And it is communism (that's a separate issue to dwell on) here :)

[lukjad007]

You can use the "blubuntu" theme if you're averse to orangish-brown;sudo apt-get install blubuntu-look
I'll have to look that up.

[Mason Whitaker]

Did anybody mention that Ubuntu got to it's release of 8.10 and it still got no theme significantly different from its predecessor... I'm really disappointed... Waited so much, and here you go with the good old "human" which makes me vomit...
Uhh... Have to customize it all again with... ah.. whatever.. :(

If you're really that bummed out about it, you could download a theme and them mod it yourself to have the Ubuntu logo on it if it doesn't already ( what I did... )

[alex.rayu]

Or even better, just write your own version of Linux, with your own fork of Gnome, and don't flood the forum with your rant - you and alex.rayu, that rascal =)

[Giant Speck]

Or even better, just write your own version of Linux, with your own fork of Gnome, and don't flood the forum with your rant - you and alex.rayu, that rascal =)

No no no! The one thing this world doesn't need is another Linux distro.

[alex.rayu]

No no no! The one thing this world doesn't need is another Linux distro.
I couldn't do that anyway. Just like many other things that I can't do. I cant make a beautiful theme by myself, redraw all icons by myself, create a per column view for Nautilus by myself, edit GTK so it wont look gigantic by myself, and I can't even decrease huge interval in Evolution folders list by myself! But I cheer for the guys who want to do that and more. Who want to innovate, not just stretch old skin on the same nautilus year after year after year. Yes, I'll look at KDE 4 closer when it's 4.2

[turezky]

Thatis what I don't like in forums most of all... Everybody reads either first threads or the last threads only...
Well, every day I'm losing hope and becoming more desparate... And, yes, I'll look at openSuse closer when it's 11.1...

[alex.rayu]

I like Ubuntu so far, even though sound got broken and appears to be for long. For me, switching to another distro is few days lost in work. Ubuntu finds all drivers for my devices and I am not sure OpenSuse will do that, or will be very different in look and feel. Its like trading green pear for yellow pear probably. Will not be significantly different.

KDE may be - they have a different sound server. But it's too raw yet.

[lukjad007]

I would like to point out a few things.

1) Linux is not Windows.
2) GNOME is not KDE
3) Themes are just frosting on a cake.
4) A lot of people strongly dislike the Mac look.

I don't know about you, but I don't want Linux to look like a Mac, Windows version, or anything else without my say so. I do not like the Windows look. I do, however like the Human GNOME look. To me, it is simple, elegant, and functional. Each menu tells you what is there. Application has, well, application, Places holds the places in your system, and system has all the basic tools for adjusting your system. ;)

I like the colour, I like the theme. The only thing I don't really like is the wallpaper, but that is because I never like the default wallpaper. :D

No, this doesn't look like a Mac, nor should it. If it looked like a Mac, then people would just assume, no matter how wrongly, that it is a Mac. And then people will either get upset when it doesn't work like a Mac or never try it "because the don't like Macs". (My computer teacher really, really hates Macs.)

In short, I think that Linux, and by extension Ubuntu, should keep away from looking like another OS, at least as the default.

[alex.rayu]

Nobody says it should look like Win or Mac. There is more than one look possible in accordance with Human interface principles. But what Linux now has of all of that is the word.

[jedimasterk]

Here is a nice screenshot of the new opensolaris 2008.11. Nice default look!.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5659/opensolarisje3.png (http://imageshack.us) http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/opensolarisje3.png/1/w1280.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img185/opensolarisje3.png/1/)

[alex.rayu]

Yep the theme is good.
But that's just an empty desktop.

[jedimasterk]

I guess their art team is better than canonicals art team!.

[jedimasterk]

Yep the theme is good.
But that's just an empty desktop.

The color combination is good and the icons are nice for any desktop. Very stylish for Gnome!. They also have a very stylish theme to go with it.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7159/devicedriverutilityzv8.png (http://imageshack.us) http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/devicedriverutilityzv8.png/1/w587.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img201/devicedriverutilityzv8.png/1/)

[lukjad007]

Nobody says it should look like Win or Mac. There is more than one look possible in accordance with Human interface principles. But what Linux now has of all of that is the word.
I don't understand. Do you mean that Linux is only a theory? And, for the record, I like the default GNOME look.

[jedimasterk]

Cudos to the opensolaris art team. I still prefer Linux though. Looks even nicer than openSuse in my opinion. So now why can't Canonical do the same with Ubuntu. A stylish default desktop.

[jedimasterk]

The panels seem to have a transparency to them with a backdrop. Look by System and Places on the Menu and you can see the wallpaper slightly. And with their theme I'm sure all third party apps will look good. Unlike Darklooks with Skype.

[alex.rayu]

Yep thats a good theme. Very unobtrusive, and the right places are hinted with color.

lukjad007, what I meant is that "Human Interface" is actually a set of objective criteria (see here http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/) These are the guidelines for Gnome. As you see, it's an objective approach, rather than a " somebody likes it so it's acceptable" approach. Now, GNOME derives it's Human Interfce from the wider theory of Human Interface. So yes, there are objective criteria for a good interface.

One of them is that interface should not attract attention, but rather facilitate the usage of other elements (unobtrusiveness). Has to have respectable contrast to not spend too much time looking for an orange icon on an orange BG, etc. Its not all that bad with Ubuntu - I am not saying that. But there is a way to go.

[smartboyathome]

Cudos to the opensolaris art team. I still prefer Linux though. Looks even nicer than openSuse in my opinion. So now why can't Canonical do the same with Ubuntu. A stylish default desktop.

Willing to contribute? Ubuntu doesn't get there by itself, as it doesn't have all the money that Sun has to put into the default look. In fact, I think it still doesn't get as much in than it puts out. If Canonical were able to start making a profit, I am sure that they would hire more developers to help with everything. :)

[turezky]

I like Ubuntu so far, even though sound got broken and appears to be for long. For me, switching to another distro is few days lost in work. Ubuntu finds all drivers for my devices and I am not sure OpenSuse will do that, or will be very different in look and feel. Its like trading green pear for yellow pear probably. Will not be significantly different.

KDE may be - they have a different sound server. But it's too raw yet.

Well, maybe I was a little bit exagerating :)
As I said previously for me Ubuntu is more than just an OS... It's a whole philosophy with all it's ins and outs. And I think there's some magic inside Ubuntu, what made it the worlds most popular distro.
I mean Novell and RedHat were dumping money, and they couldn't have got the same attention as Ubuntu.

Btw, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081109-ubuntu-open-week-mark-shuttleworth-speaks.html :) We have a nice article here giving us some simple answers and... here we go again... promises :)

Mark Shuttleworth:
"We have been hiring, for months, designers and user experience guys. It has taken much longer than I hoped. That team will be in place in Jan/Feb, I imagine," he said. "Whether their initial work will make a dramatic visual impact on Jaunty, I don't know. I know that other work, on the user experience front, will land, but i'll keep some surprises in store till later. ;-)"

Yeap... I don't even know how to react :) Does it mean that we will actually get some changes, or simply that there will be a new icon here and less icon there, and another feature that nobody actually uses...

[Linkert]

Love to our Mark Shuttleworth :D

[alex.rayu]

Willing to contribute? Ubuntu doesn't get there by itself, as it doesn't have all the money that Sun has to put into the default look. In fact, I think it still doesn't get as much in than it puts out. If Canonical were able to start making a profit, I am sure that they would hire more developers to help with everything. :)

100% Thats true.

[alex.rayu]

Yeap... I don't even know how to react :) Does it mean that we will actually get some changes, or simply that there will be a new icon here and less icon there, and another feature that nobody actually uses...

That may be anything. From true effort to misguided effort to just speaking for the Media.

I believe I am witnessing lack of designers/coders for Ubuntu.

[turezky]

Well, there's only one way to find out I suppose :)
Another long six months of development, peeking into alphas screenshot tours (special thanks to softpedia :)) and hoping that some day the Mac's and Win's will kneel before Ubuntu :)
But this time I won't have that excitement everytime the alpha or beta or rc build is going to be released...

[alex.rayu]

I am waiting for KDE 4.2
Perhaps will switch.
I understand Hnome will do nothing new until GTK 3

[turezky]

That may be anything. From true effort to misguided effort to just speaking for the Media.

I believe I am witnessing lack of designers/coders for Ubuntu.

I don't think there's lack of 'em... I think they're just being managed inefficiently. Plus, there are tons of people willing to contribute (I am one for example) but there's no one who would plan, organize, lead and control :) either as Canonical employee or an outsider. Another possibility is that people appointed @ Canonical as leaders are not "the real leaders" at all... I don't mean to offend, but too few programmers have the managerial skills...
Well, as banal as it is, there's simply lack of communications between the community and the management (or developers/designers, whoever those peers might be)...
... Sigh ...

[turezky]

I am waiting for KDE 4.2
Perhaps will switch.
I understand Hnome will do nothing new until GTK 3

GTK3... Well, that's about 1.5 years to wait :) At least if what they say about when the GTK3 will actually land... Tooo long for me I'd say...

[alex.rayu]

wow THAT long??? Too long for me as well!
I have actually listened to a good Russian podcast. IT professionals said, Ubuntu 8.10 is out. You won't notice almost any changes, which is good, because people dont get shocked."

Somebody may be getting shocked but I am getting bored )

[turezky]

:)
Sorry to the guys who don't speak Russian but...
Алекс, Вы русский? :)
Не могли бы Вы дать ссылку откуда я бы смог скачать данный подкаст :)

What is the policy here about talking foreign languages??? :)

[turezky]

Btw, as far as I know, Gnome 3.0 == Gnome 2.30... Right?

[walkerk]

How about a minimal install. I like Ubuntu but I prefer a minimal system.

I chose a minimalistic install w/ the MinimalCD. Installed PekWM and themed it appropriately. Ubuntu is what you make it.

[alex.rayu]

Yes I'm Russian. They talk about it closer to the end. http://radio-t.com/podcasts/radio-t-110/

[itisbasi]

I like new wave more than dust...

[smartboyathome]

I like new wave more than dust...

And I don't because it makes the menu+window border look like its behind the window imo.

[L14UX_1NS1D3]

Did you even try to look at the themes! There's new theme besides the default "human" Called Darkroom. I was quite impressed the first time I ran the livecd. All the talk of implimenting a dark theme did happen after all, it's just not the theme that you see when start up ubuntu for the first time. Even though Darkroom is still brown. It really makes for a nice change. Eventually I'll switch my theme to something darker but for now I'm just getting wallpapers that match the brown theme. Currently Domo-kun greets me ever time I start up my laptop. Yay Domo-kun! :guitar:

[Giant Speck]

:)
Sorry to the guys who don't speak Russian but...
Алекс, Вы русский? :)
Не могли бы Вы дать ссылку откуда я бы смог скачать данный подкаст :)

What is the policy here about talking foreign languages??? :)

Я думаю, что вы можете говорить по-русски только в русских форумах.
I think you are allowed to speak Russian online in the Russian forums.

[alex.rayu]

Look at that! Russian mafia! =)
Vodka, tovarish, vodka! The theme needs to be cleaR !

[Artificial Intelligence]

English please.


Thanks.


regards
A.I. Dude
Ubuntu Forum Staff

[alex.rayu]

He said, speak Russian only on Russian forums.

As for the dark theme - it's very exotic, even if it's great. The default theme should never be dark.

[lotharjade]

I think people who like a dark look, use the combination of the DarkRoom Theme + Ibex Aleternative Background (http://backdropsforyourlife.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/official-ubuntu-intepid-ibex-alternate-wallpaper/) background by Sebastian Schmieg. It is really nice for those who are a bit light sensitive.

[smartboyathome]

Or use dust or new wave from the community themes package. ;)

[j_baer]

If you are looking for something between Human and Dust you may want to consider Synergy.

Synergy is a theme I created specifically for Hardy and Intrepid. To view over 30 screen shots and/or download go to projWiki.

http://www.projwiki.com/index.cgi/SynergyGtkTheme

Cheers,

John

[alex.rayu]

Synergy's good.

[lotharjade]

I could see the Synergy theme + SynergyEarthenIbex wallpaper as the new theme, with a lighter colored theme for those bright folks. That looks real nice. :KS

What is that monitor on the bottom right task bar? Is that part of the theme, or something else?

[smartboyathome]

I could see the Synergy theme + SynergyEarthenIbex wallpaper as the new theme, with a lighter colored theme for those bright folks. That looks real nice. :KS

What is that monitor on the bottom right task bar? Is that part of the theme, or something else?

Its a gnome applet. I can't remember what its called. :(

[yuminig]

the problem with ubuntu themes are color restriction. for example the human theme has orange everywhere even in firefox the forward and backward button is orange. while the clearlooks is blue. they should mix some more color for example make the icon folder yellow and in firefox or browsing in folder make the color of the back button red then forward button green. they should make mix some more color so that we can easily differentiate the items in the os. I know that their theme is based on the color of the ubuntu logo. but logo is logo and theme is theme they shouldn't restrict themselve mix some more colors do the chemistry for the users of the ubuntu.

it is just my opinion so don't take it seriously and be offended:KS

[Eddie Wilson]

I thought that this may be a useful thread, but I was wrong. I've wasted a lot of time reading that Ubuntu should be more like Mac's, how Canonical doesn't know what they are doing, how a new theme needs to be made so Ubuntu can complete with Windows and Apple. Surely no one here is STUPID enough to choose an operating system based on how pretty the desktop theme looks or how well it works, which some of the comments were just falsehoods. Mac's have some of the plainest themes I've ever seen and to Apple fanboys if you think they are so great what are you doing here? Running a little short on money? Same comment to the MS Windows fanboys. So go play a game. Isn't that what MS Windows is good for? This post may be a little harsh but most of these posters sound like they are still in high school and don't have any ideal what they are talking about. I get sick of kids coming to the forums just to bitch and cry more often than not about something they don't know anything about. This is my opinion and observation and not open for debate. If you don't have anything useful to say then just shut up and stop wasting my time.

[Merk42]

...Surely no one here is STUPID enough to choose an operating system based on how pretty the desktop theme looks or how well it works...

Actually a lot do, first impressions are important. If theoretically Ubuntu were in a brick and mortar store it would have on the default theme. If there were two identical computers next to each other, one running Windows (XP, Vista, etc) and the other running Ubuntu, people would more likely choose the Windows one because it looks better/more familiar. They wouldn't be bothered to even experiment with Ubuntu to see how it's better for them than the Windows version.

[turezky]

Amigo, you should really take it easy there. If you don't like this thread, so
what are you doing here?
Nobody made you read this :)
And you should really reread the initial threads and what it's all about... No one says Ubuntu should copy Apple or Windows. It's about being able to compete with them, as they're obviously more competitive in the issues of "presentation layer" I would say.
And, I'm sorry, this post might also be harsh, but you're behaving like one of the kids coming to the forums just to bitch and cry more often than not about something they don't know anything about. At least your manner of self-expression points to that...
Please, be kind to others!

[cardinals_fan]

Actually a lot do, first impressions are important. If theoretically Ubuntu were in a brick and mortar store it would have on the default theme. If there were two identical computers next to each other, one running Windows (XP, Vista, etc) and the other running Ubuntu, people would more likely choose the Windows one because it looks better/more familiar. They wouldn't be bothered to even experiment with Ubuntu to see how it's better for them than the Windows version.
Actually, an Ubuntu machine in a brick/mortar store probably wouldn't have the default look. OEMs tend to personalize their operating systems.

[Merk42]

Actually, an Ubuntu machine in a brick/mortar store probably wouldn't have the default look. OEMs tend to personalize their operating systems.

Source? I looked at DELL and System76 and it seems like they keep the default.

[alex.rayu]

What, Windows and Macs are stupid operating systems for the kids, who don't know what they want, right? Then why do they so absolutely dominate the market? Yes, stupid plain Apple fanboys, game-philiac Windows users, the world is filled with them, and you happen to be in the proud 3% of the smart people. Congratulations, tovarish! Have all Linux designers and developers been that smart, Linux would have remained a kernel for geeks to play with, what it initially was. The kind of even smarter guys, who even today use interface that looks like Windows 1.0, because you see it runs so fast. Or should we say that Ubuntu is currently mostly an OS for the school boys, who want to look cool before their peers? So, lets not do kindergarten.

Once the course for objectve user-firendliness is taken, it has to be maintained. You may not like Macs or Windows, but these are the companies that have spent millions of dollars studying usability, and have come up with designs that satisfy the widest range of clients. And the smart guys may use fluxbox, or plain terminal - nobody objects.

[bambootree]

Oh men, I think we went too far from the main topic of this thread.
Calm down, everybody.
Let it be !

[Giant Speck]

oh men, i think we went too far from the main topic of this thread.
Calm down, everybody.
Let it be !

+1

[nickdbliss]

Oh men, I think we went too far from the main topic of this thread.
Calm down, everybody.
Let it be !

+1
I would rather suggest to stop the ranting people and make a theme urself if u are so eager to see the change coming. If it is good, we promise we will rock it and ubuntu developers will have to adopt it at all costs. I would do it if i knew how to. But talking and showing frustration here won't take us anywhere for sure. Cheers

[oasmar1]

I hope Canonical hires professionals to create a theme for ubuntu, I have always found ubuntu and pretty much EVERY theme (including custom Windows and Linux themes) other than Mac OSX, Windows XP, Vista and classic difficult to use, things just do not seem to stand out properly. I can not explain it but there is a reason why Microsoft and Apple put so much money into designing their operating system.

Another issue, is that Linux (and Mac to some extent) seem to have blurrier fonts which despite any thing i have tried never look as good as Windows Fonts.

I will glady use Ubuntu Human theme until a theme is created which will boost ubuntu into the same beauty of Mac OSX.

[Merk42]

+1
I would rather suggest to stop the ranting people and make a theme urself if u are so eager to see the change coming. If it is good, we promise we will rock it and ubuntu developers will have to adopt it at all costs. I would do it if i knew how to. But talking and showing frustration here won't take us anywhere for sure. Cheers

Yeah right that doesn't happen! You mean like Dust? Then there are just stupid excuses like "oh OpenOffice.org doesn't theme properly" which I had never heard of before Dust and the other really popular community themes.
It's like the Art Department had a horrible case of "not invented here" syndrome so they refused to make it default, or even include it.

[smartboyathome]

Yeah right that doesn't happen! You mean like Dust? Then there are just stupid excuses like "oh OpenOffice.org doesn't theme properly" which I had never heard of before Dust and the other really popular community themes.
It's like the Art Department had a horrible case of "not invented here" syndrome so they refused to make it default, or even include it.

Mark Shuttleworth wants the theme to be working with everything, and there are quite a few programs (not just OpenOffice.org and Firefox) which have glaring bugs with the theme. Until all these issues get resolved, Mark won't even look at it.

[alex.rayu]

I think I was partially wrong for blaming Ubuntu. It's Gnome =) Without AWN it's Windows 2000. I think I will wait for KDE 4.2 and try to switch. I recently had a number of serious tasks to do, so I got a license of Vista. Have not used it for a year. Have used vista for a few days. Noticed how KDE 4 resembles vista. Looked back at Gnome, it does resemble windows 2000 with some enhancement. I guess Gnome is running out of innovation.

I guess Mark Shuttleworth does not have lots of options. Reviewed other distros of Linux. They are all the same mostly, with slightly different themes. All about taking all the same software like Gnome, KDE, FluxBox for geeks, and package it with a different theme. I wonder if there is going to be some breakthrough some day.

[Merk42]

Mark Shuttleworth wants the theme to be working with everything, and there are quite a few programs (not just OpenOffice.org and Firefox) which have glaring bugs with the theme. Until all these issues get resolved, Mark won't even look at it.


The default theme for 8.10 has a 'glaring bug' in that the title bar of non focused windows sometimes render oddly. I'm not on my computer right now so I can't provide a screenshot.

I still don't understand the bug specifics that you're talking about, though.
Where is the bug exactly? In the theme; in GNOME; or in OO.o, firefox, et al?

I downloaded Shiki-Colors just to look at it, and it seemed to have skinned Firefox fine (I don't use OO.o that much so I couldn't say)

I wonder if there is going to be some breakthrough some day.

Supposedly GNOME 3.0, but that's not due out until 2010

[smartboyathome]

The default theme for 8.10 has a 'glaring bug' in that the title bar of non focused windows sometimes render oddly. I'm not on my computer right now so I can't provide a screenshot.

I still don't understand the bug specifics that you're talking about, though.
Where is the bug exactly? In the theme; in GNOME; or in OO.o, firefox, et al?

I downloaded Shiki-Colors just to look at it, and it seemed to have skinned Firefox fine (I don't use OO.o that much so I couldn't say)

The bug is in the different apps which adopt the theme incorrectly. They apply the different portions of the theme to the wrong places, which is why many times Firefox needs to be patched for dark themes (for example).

Shiki Colors is very different from Dust in that its using different code, and even has a few patches like dust to apply themes in apps like Firefox (though Dust's theme maintainer had to regress the theme for these apps since they don't work well without some hacks like the dust Firefox theme).

[Merk42]

So the problem lies in the individual applications??
Then how will we ever get a new default? How does the current default Human skin properly then?

[alex.rayu]

I wonder what makes it so hard to create skins without bugs? Standardization problem? Nobody is responsible for saying "It should be like THIS"? As far as I know, this is not a problem for the QT toolkit. It's probably just Gnome.

It has been my impression that Gnome project badly lacks programmers. Seems to be experiencing major lags.

[Giant Speck]

I wonder what makes it so hard to create skins without bugs? Standardization problem? Nobody is responsible for saying "It should be like THIS"? As far as I know, this is not a problem for the QT toolkit. It's probably just Gnome.

It has been my impression that Gnome project badly lacks programmers. Seems to be experiencing major lags.

I think GNOME developers are too busy trying to develop GNOME 3.0 rather than maintain the current versions. It reminds me of the Mozilla when they were developing Firefox 3.0

[smartboyathome]

So the problem lies in the individual applications??
Then how will we ever get a new default? How does the current default Human skin properly then?

The themes are made simpler so that they can work with the different applications. For example, Dust is a very complex theme, so applications which try to emulate certain features of the system's GTK theme (or the whole theme itself) would not work as well. The Human theme, on the other hand, is very simple, and thus is easier for applications to apply.

[alex.rayu]

I think GNOME developers are too busy trying to develop GNOME 3.0 rather than maintain the current versions. It reminds me of the Mozilla when they were developing Firefox 3.0

Oh and it's still more that a year to go. I hope they come up with something worthy.

[jesterthejedi]

I find this discussion interesting because I recently switched back to Evolution from Thunderbird and was frustrated with the inconsistency in the icons (up until now I was using Crashbit Ubuntu). Here are some screen grabs to illustrate exactly what Alex is talking about:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-cb.png

Part of the icons are Crashbit and part are Tango. Not good. And it's not just with Evolution; if you have several toolbar items in Firefox (bookmarks, downloads, history, etc.) many of the icon sets will not replace them - only the defaults.

Even Human does not appear consistent in Evolution. Here is an example with HumanElephant-Savane, which is very similar to Human with a few tweaks:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-hes.png

In the end - as much as I hate Tango's cartoonish appearance (but couldn't bother with the Hydroxygen bloat and OS X ripoffs in some place) - I settled with GNOME Colors. It's the only icon set that is consistent across the board and fits in well.

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-gh.png

Even with GNOME Human, I still have reservations with all of the orange, especially since it was designed to complement Shiki-Human. However, I replaced the highlight color to the one used by Dust as the orange border didn't 'fit' in my eyes.

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/wicd1.png?w=300&h=288 (http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/wicd1.png)

And on that note I have to take back what I said in a previous post in the Community Cafe about GNOME Color's cartoonish look against Dust because in the end it's the only complete set in a world of half-baked sets on GNOME-Look.

Edit: I want to also illustrate how fugly some of these icon sets are. Meliae is quite popular around here, but IMO it completely falls off the rails in Evolution:

http://mackdieselx27.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/evo-mel.png

It must be the envelope.

I have been fighting to make Evolution as pleasant and user friendly as possible with my icon theme Mashup:

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Mashup?content=86452

I am only using Murrine Clean Blue, Hacked-Dark, and Redglass for the rest. It might be heavy on the eye candy, but the white/dark themes both go great with what I'm using.

[Half-Left]

I think KDE Oxygen and their icons are so much better, clearer and neater. I like tango but getting used to Oxygen they look to cartoony.

[alex.rayu]

I think KDE Oxygen and their icons are so much better, clearer and neater. I like tango but getting used to Oxygen they look to cartoony.

Try any other professional icon set and Tango will look cheap and cartoony.

[alex.rayu]

And they look cheap and cartoony because Tango Project is actually quite old. Being Open Source type, thay have been adding icons slowly. When they started, they picked a trend considered stylish at that time :D But now it looks very old and unprofessional.

[Giant Speck]

Despite the fact that Tango icons look cartoony and outdated, they are still consistent. Tango icons follow a strict color scheme and set of rules to make sure that theme uniformity is in place.

[jedimasterk]

And they look cheap and cartoony because Tango Project is actually quite old. Being Open Source type, thay have been adding icons slowly. When they started, they picked a trend considered stylish at that time :D But now it looks very old and unprofessional.

Speaking of cartoony and cheap have you seen the proposed wallpapers for Jaunty. A desktop with a rabbit and horns. Childish!. No wonder large businesses are reluctant to go with Ubuntu over openSUSE or RedHat.

[alex.rayu]

Yep they look cheap but because as Giant Speck has said, Tango is consistent, they look consistently cheap and cartooney.

Probably Ubuntu is winning it's place as a teenager's OS =)

Linux had a chance over the last few years to take hold of the markets while Vista was horrifying it's users. But now Win 7 is in beta. It's advanced, powerful, and has lots of eye-candy, that has been so much detested by the Gnome users, "Oh that KDE got all that needless eye-candy". And now Everybody is raving about Win 7. MS Servers crashed, the amount of beta downloads bypassed all expectations.

Linux had a chance, but it did not use it. And just a few years ago, newly-emerging Ubuntu seemed so promising. But with the Gnome slowness to change, ATI making such a huge trap in the form of driver support, and lack of serious attitude to Ubuntu as project, have resulyed that Ubuntu has given first place in the Distrowatch results to Suse in the last 30 days.

That is sad, Ubuntu was the 1st Linux distro that I actually LIKED.

[jesterthejedi]

Linux is still a better choice than Windoze for many reasons:

1. License restrictions
2. Buggy software
3. Viruses, Malware, and Spyware
4. Slow updates and releases
5. Poor 3rd party apps
6. Limited customization
7. Fragmented hard disks
8. Slow startup and shutdown
9. Needs rebooting
10. Windows ME (many errors)
11. Bland artwork

Having used windows for 12 years, I do know the environment really well, and I can truely say that even in Ubuntu's infancy its more of a polished and robust operating system. Yes it can seem behind the eye candy in the Mac world, but I used a few apples back in my day and the way the OS handled has always been strange. Yes the eye candy is nice, but its also highly proprietary, and anything free and open has the potential to over write the gains Mac fanbois rave about (mostly hype). I also must add that Windows 7 may win over the corporate and typical family user, but Linux will continue to be easier and less of a headache and make more converts. If all the users that pirate Windows and those crappy 3rd party apps just gave Linux a try, Adobe and many software companies would be building open source apps.

[alex.rayu]

even in Ubuntu's infancy its more of a polished and robust operating system.

Well I do agree to this. I have Vista and I have ubuntu and Ubuntu (with compiz and Mac icons of course) does beat Vista greatly in performance, intuitivity, and eye-candy (with compiz, AWN and screenlets).

Never the less, the theme/visual style is poopr - when I mean that "it does beat", I am thinking about the Ubuntu with Mac4Lin on it. Then it *does* beat, I'm positive.

I have never been a fan of open/not_open - I actually don't care if it's open or not. I care about functionality and productivity.

But what i have been saying about Win 7, is that Linux, despite all growth that it has recently had, has not used the opportunity to the extent everybody expected. It developed evolutionally, and everybody, including myself, expected a *revolutionary* leap, especially with adopting a seemingly better model of patronage, like with Ubuntu. There were many disappointed Win fans, ready to try it out. But now the door is getting closed, the fans will be trying out Win 7, which IS in many ways better than vista, and it will close the gap that has been around. Which, in the worst scenario, will result in lowering of interest of commercial segment to ubuntu, withdrawal of sponsorship, and the whole thing submerging into a savage but proud Open Sourse red-eye past. Which, I of course, hope, will not happen.

[amoxi]

I'm not so sure about that closing gap, because:

1. the issues jesterthejedi still exist and
2. its still beta. people also hyped Windows Vista, and everybody knows what happened.

In addition to that, looks aren't everything. While not finding Ubuntu (with the human theme) to be a extremely goodlooking OS, it is at least decent for my taste. I think many normal people ( e.g. non-designers ;) ) would agree.

[alex.rayu]

I wish that were true, and I wish Ubuntu were developing faster. Well, I like ubuntu. I am mostly upset about the GTK, the theme, and the icons. And whilst I can choose another theme and icons, I can't replace the gigantic gtk.

[alex.rayu]

And I truly am amazed how wnything at all be produced by enthusiasm. Some people must be REALLY energetic to first do their work and then do the free stuff.

[days_of_ruin]

If people used operating systems based on eye-candy and ui why wouldn't they
go for vista but love window 7?There really isn't much difference.
People use computers to do stuff.Not to stair at a cool ui.And tango icons
are about usability and intuitiveness not about looking cool/hip.

[alex.rayu]

If people used operating systems based on eye-candy and ui why wouldn't they
go for vista but love window 7?There really isn't much difference.
People use computers to do stuff.Not to stair at a cool ui.And tango icons
are about usability and intuitiveness not about looking cool/hip.
If people simply wanted "to do stuff" they would be still using windows 98. But not so. People are not robats. They want ease, intuitiveness, beauty. That adds to productivity, helps people do what they do easier. When a minimized window flips nicely to the dock, it's not for just fun. It tell people where it went in a natural intuitive way.

On contrary, Linux has been precisely the "do it" thing for many ears. It was oriented for raw productivity, rather than user experience. And nobody except server admins and a small circle of red-eyed fanatics ran it. And if you wanted eye-candy, they would say you are stupid.

Now, Linux's recent growth was majorily due to the fact that certain influential people recognized, that a raw "do it" approach was never going to it for Linux. People were plain scared of it. Linux was a synonim for something red-eyed, jerky, hard, uneasy, ugly, with high learning curve. Projects like Ubuntu have actually made a special point in fighting this specific approach. they took on hte "human" interface. They are working towards making it nicer, easier, more intuitive. And while some of the red-eyed jerks and "pure Open-Source fanatics" are criticizing Ubuntu and Suse, their own red-eyed versions of 'nix have hit the floor and are almost dead, nobody wants to use them.

So, it's been a long way for linux to arrive past that. And if you are now telling me it's about "doing it", no matter how ugly or unintuitive, man, you should be kept a canon's shot away from having anything to do with theming in Ubuntu!

And no, icons that are not looking well can not be intuitive enough. Tango has gotten old by the time of it's adolescense. Away with Tango!

[jesterthejedi]

I don't think I agree with you fully. Linux users started Compiz and Beryl years ago. Also X has been around since the 80's. One other point is Ubuntu gets a new version every six months. How long does a Windows or Mac release take? Windows 7 is actually release number nine, and Mac 10.5 wont be going to 11 for a while, the next release is at 10.54 or 10.6. So Ubuntu being 4 years old and already at 9.04 is good news to me. I also am aware that 9.04 means ninth release, fourth month. I myself have used Ubuntu since the Drapper Drake days and I have been able to go 100% Linux and not run a single program in Wine or Windows :)

[alex.rayu]

Well my response was mostly to the strategic point. Whether eye-candy matters or not. Ubuntu was created with specifically saying that it will be aspiring to be intuitive, beautiful, and user-firndly. And of course once we agree on that, we can discuss where and how it has met these standards or not.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Re Windows 7... I knew I should have finished implementing robin.com.au's window list (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=320315) :/

Oh well, artwork or no artwork, we still have Xinput 2 (MPX), fully integrated (and desktop neutral) instant messaging and kernel mode-setting coming along. Ubuntu may lack the eye candy, but there are always great ideas coming down the tubes :)

[days_of_ruin]

If people simply wanted "to do stuff" they would be still using windows 98. But not so. People are not robats. They want ease, intuitiveness, beauty. That adds to productivity, helps people do what they do easier. When a minimized window flips nicely to the dock, it's not for just fun. It tell people where it went in a natural intuitive way.

On contrary, Linux has been precisely the "do it" thing for many ears. It was oriented for raw productivity, rather than user experience. And nobody except server admins and a small circle of red-eyed fanatics ran it. And if you wanted eye-candy, they would say you are stupid.

Now, Linux's recent growth was majorily due to the fact that certain influential people recognized, that a raw "do it" approach was never going to it for Linux. People were plain scared of it. Linux was a synonim for something red-eyed, jerky, hard, uneasy, ugly, with high learning curve. Projects like Ubuntu have actually made a special point in fighting this specific approach. they took on hte "human" interface. They are working towards making it nicer, easier, more intuitive. And while some of the red-eyed jerks and "pure Open-Source fanatics" are criticizing Ubuntu and Suse, their own red-eyed versions of 'nix have hit the floor and are almost dead, nobody wants to use them.

So, it's been a long way for linux to arrive past that. And if you are now telling me it's about "doing it", no matter how ugly or unintuitive, man, you should be kept a canon's shot away from having anything to do with theming in Ubuntu!

And no, icons that are not looking well can not be intuitive enough. Tango has gotten old by the time of it's adolescense. Away with Tango!

So the only difference between win98 and winxp/vista is gui?No its not.

by saying that people use computers to do stuff I didn't mean ui's should be ugly.I like cool uis.But most people really don't care as long as the
ui is not distracting or really hideous.
I don't use the default window border theme because Its not my favorite.
But its not some grey,square 90's mess that you make it out to be.

Does using ubuntu as it is now give you read eyes?"Ugly" != unituitive.
And a lot of people like tango icons.I have seen them on many web sites
that aren't for FOSS.Basically you don't like how ubuntu looks so
its officially unusable and ugly and mark s should have consulted you.

Seriously just use another distro.

[jolx]

I also am aware that 9.04 means ninth release, fourth month.

nearly (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames) ;)

[amoxi]

i think the problem is that alex.rayu is an professional web designer and exactly recognizes the no-go's in ubuntus artwork. i mean, i don't see anything wrong about those darn tango icons... what really sucks is that metacity theme...the color is making me uneasy and the buttons don't look good either. those are the only things that bother me. oh, and that hideous new wallpaper of course. but other than that, its okay ...not good, but ok.
alex.rayu, have you ever thought about joining the art team or anything like that? i think they could use people like you!

[Mr. Picklesworth]

The wallpaper in 9.04 (which discussion has drifted towards) is not intended for a final release. It was built for an alpha release and only an alpha release, simply to distinguish itself from anything stable and nail home the idea that This Is A Draft :)
In other words, it's nothing to worry about. Nobody intends for it to shoot into the final release.

And here is the relevant mailing list thread for the matter:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-December/008445.html

And indeed, I'm sure your input would be really appreciated there.

I also don't really see what's wrong with Tango, since it does a great job of distinguishing icons. It isn't always the most pretty thing ever, but it does what icons are meant to do and it does that smoothly. However, for what it's worth the Breath icon set (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet) is coming along.

Something the Ubuntu community should do is look at Fedora and ask why it has such a rich community of artists that they not only have beautiful, consistent artwork every release but have so much of it that they have to vote for a particular set. I think this may have something to do with how easy and welcoming (http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora) it is to get to here (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#Designer).

[amoxi]

oh, i meant the intrepid wallpaper. the first ubuntu wallpaper i couldnt stand.
yes i agree, the fedoraguys do have a decent artwork.
but it doesnt help, it also looks kind of early-2000's.
i think the problem is gnome2.xx/gtk2.
it's getting old.
lets see what gnome 3 has to offer! have you read about/installed the gnome-shell? well, thats something new!

ooops...off-topic!!

[alex.rayu]

I don't object to input.