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View Full Version : Do you think Mono is evil?

medic2000
October 9th, 2008, 04:41 PM
Well lets discuss. Personally i am against it 100%. MS is seeing the future that they will die slowly so they are again playing tricks.(best job they have done) And i feel sorry seing the Gnome getting infested by Mono day after day.
smartboyathome
October 9th, 2008, 04:45 PM
Off to Recurring discussions you will go!

Personally, I'm for Mono, as it doesn't technically break any patents (at least not in Ubuntu), and it is actually beneficial for those wishing to port their .NET software (Like a dev did for Paint.NET when creating Paint.Mono).
Joeb454
October 9th, 2008, 05:22 PM
Off to Recurring discussions you will go!

No...really?? Well if you're sure...;)
directhex
October 9th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I think Microsoft are actually a race of hideous lizard-creatures who wear fake human suits. Their grand plan involves sitting around in a sunless cave deep below Redmond, cackling evilly, and infecting poor innocent people with mutant spores of doom

http://www.mikebaggley.com/photos/moviepics/alienbaby.jpg

Alternatively, read http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/51/
chungy
October 9th, 2008, 07:30 PM
It's not evil, but I don't really see the point in it. What popular applications are out there that use .NET?

The only one I can think of is Paint.NET, and it doesn't even work in Mono because it's not pure .NET (besides, it's not nearly as good as the GIMP anyway, but that's another discussion).
directhex
October 9th, 2008, 07:40 PM
It's not evil, but I don't really see the point in it. What popular applications are out there that use .NET?

The only one I can think of is Paint.NET, and it doesn't even work in Mono because it's not pure .NET (besides, it's not nearly as good as the GIMP anyway, but that's another discussion).

http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/normal_paintdotnet.png

More productively, there are plenty of apps in Ubuntu which use it, including two in the default desktop install. Ubuntu picks out the best applications for a given task, and in some cases, those best applications are written with CLI. From a programmer perspective, that's mostly because writing in something like C# is joy and light compared to C, meaning you can get a useful program written in a fraction of the time because you work with, not against, the language.
cardinals_fan
October 9th, 2008, 08:03 PM
No software is "evil". It is just a tool. I don't think that Mono is a particularly good tool - I haven't seen any Mono apps that I liked. However, that doesn't make it morally wrong or anything.
chungy
October 9th, 2008, 08:35 PM
[Paint.NET in Mono screenshot]

Well I stand corrected. I still don't see a point, but that's just my opinion. I might not like GNOME much either, but plenty of people do :)
Sand Lee
October 9th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Interview with Miguel de Icaza (http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7746284247.html)

I don't think Mono is evil. A lot of people do just because it's frequently related to Microsot. And in most peoples minds, Microsoft = evil. In fact, I think it's just another way to ease developers and enterprise users who implement .NET into opensource software.

Cheers
karellen
October 10th, 2008, 06:10 AM
no
lisati
October 10th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Is mono evil? Not in and of itself, but I prefer stereo. Watching a DVD with 5.1 surround sound can be an awesome experience.
medic2000
October 10th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Isn't there a possibilty that MS will sue for us for license issues?
directhex
October 10th, 2008, 06:17 AM
Isn't there a possibilty that MS will sue for us for license issues?

I don't think so. It would go against their business' interests to do so.
karellen
October 10th, 2008, 06:23 AM
Alternatively, read http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/51/
thanks for the link. useful reading ;)
medic2000
October 10th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Is mono evil? Not in and of itself, but I prefer stereo. Watching a DVD with 5.1 surround sound can be an awesome experience.

:lolflag:
medic2000
October 10th, 2008, 07:16 AM
So In MS we trust ha ? :)
directhex
October 10th, 2008, 07:36 AM
So In MS we trust ha ? :)

We can trust MS to look out for their business interests. Which includes getting as many people worldwide writing in CLI languages as possible - even if that means on a non-MS platform
Canis familiaris
October 10th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Is mono evil? Not in and of itself, but I prefer stereo. Watching a DVD with 5.1 surround sound can be an awesome experience.

QFT

:lol:
Canis familiaris
October 10th, 2008, 08:39 AM
http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/normal_paintdotnet.png

More productively, there are plenty of apps in Ubuntu which use it, including two in the default desktop install. Ubuntu picks out the best applications for a given task, and in some cases, those best applications are written with CLI. From a programmer perspective, that's mostly because writing in something like C# is joy and light compared to C, meaning you can get a useful program written in a fraction of the time because you work with, not against, the language.

Link please for Paint.NET. I want to try it.


BTW I think Mono is a good platform for learning C# in Linux and increases the appeal of Linux as a developer's platform.
My opinions on Mono have changed a bit from the past and I feel we should not "fear" Microsoft. If they try to force their "crap"(read Patents) against us, we will stand up and resist.
directhex
October 10th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Link please for Paint.NET. I want to try it.


BTW I think Mono is a good platform for learning C# in Linux and increases the appeal of Linux as a developer's platform.
My opinions on Mono have changed a bit from the past and I feel we should not "fear" Microsoft. If they try to force their "crap"(read Patents) against us, we will stand up and resist.

http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/

Needs to be checked out from SVN, and run it from a console - currently the only way to really quit it is with ctrl-C
irrdev
October 11th, 2008, 04:29 AM
I think that Mono is one of the best open-source project currently under developement. I definitely DO NOT consider it evil. Sure, I don't like Microsoft, but that doesn't mean I am biased against all of their products, much less open-source spinoffs such as Mono. Java was embraced by the open-source world even before Sun came up with OpenJDK. The .NET standard is complete open-source, as well as parts of the .NET runtime. Mono is perfectly legal, and I think that it does/may offer a bright future for running Windows .NET applications on Linux.
LaRoza
October 11th, 2008, 12:44 PM
Mono is perfectly legal, and I think that it does/may offer a bright future for running Windows .NET applications on Linux.

Mono follows an ECMA standard and is backed by a corporation and isn't illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecma_International

The licenses are GPL, LGPL and the MIT license, all free and open source.

This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

The only concerns are the parts of mono that are not part of the ECMA standard, which doesn't ship with Ubuntu and falls under patent law, highly specific to the US and it is not the issue here (that would be a civil issue between MS and Novell).
saulgoode
October 11th, 2008, 02:27 PM
Mono follows an ECMA standard and is backed by a corporation and isn't illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecma_International

The licenses are GPL, LGPL and the MIT license, all free and open source.

This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

The only concerns are the parts of mono that are not part of the ECMA standard, which doesn't ship with Ubuntu and falls under patent law, highly specific to the US and it is not the issue here (that would be a civil issue between MS and Novell).

Being an ECMA standard only indicates that the submitters of the standard have agreed that they will offer (http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/codeofconduct.htm) licensing for any necessary patents held by them on a reasonable and non-discriminatory basis. ECMA standardization does not indicate that any such license exists, nor does it indicate any details about the terms of any provided licensing.

In some jurisdictions, employing patented technology without proper licensing from the patent holder is illegal. Furthermore, in some jurisdictions users of an infringing product are liable for its infringement, regardless of the product provider and regardless of whether the technology is incorporated in an ECMA standard.

Mono's legality is not a fact, it is an opinion.
LaRoza
October 11th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Mono's legality is not a fact, it is an opinion.

This thread is on if mono is "evil" or not, not if it is legal.

So, everyone, keep legal opinions to yourself, including me.

Stick to evil ness.
directhex
October 11th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Being an ECMA standard only indicates that the submitters of the standard have agreed that they will offer (http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/codeofconduct.htm) licensing for any necessary patents held by them on a reasonable and non-discriminatory basis. ECMA standardization does not indicate that any such license exists, nor does it indicate any details about the terms of any provided licensing.

In some jurisdictions, employing patented technology without proper licensing from the patent holder is illegal. Furthermore, in some jurisdictions users of an infringing product are liable for its infringement, regardless of the product provider and regardless of whether the technology is incorporated in an ECMA standard.

Mono's legality is not a fact, it is an opinion.

"How do you tell if a piece of software violates a patent? Run wc -l on the source; if the number is greater than 1000, it probably does."
-- Nat Friedman