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zer0efx
October 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Good morning everyone!

I wanted to post a thread to get some feedback and see if there any plug-ins or adjustments that can be done to have gimp work a little like PS. I'm a multimedia designer and I've been a win user my whole life and just recently installed the latest release of Ubuntu on my production machine. As I use it more and more, I really like the platform and how fast it runs.

BUT.... being an avid Adobe user, PS has some key elements that Gimp does not (that I know of). One of the biggest missing elements I've seen so far is "layer grouping". Most of my PSD's have 50+ layers and I nest them with very detailed Layer Groups inside of Layer Groups. Working with gimp a little over the weekend, I haven't found a way to do layer grouping and my PSD's that I open, the layers palette is HUGE. Is there a compromise for this?

Also, being a multimedia designer, are there Flash and DW comparable programs to use within Ubuntu? I know there is VI, but that has a huge learning curve and it will take some time to learn all the commands and operate it efficiently. But also, I have over 50+ sites in my DW site directory and would like to see a program that uses maybe the same feature so I can easily change between sites and see my dir tree for those sites.

So, just a few questions. Hopefully I can get some good feedback to help my transition into this platform a little easier.

Thanks for any info or insight! Appreciate it.

lates

HellNoire
October 7th, 2008, 04:58 PM
As a casual designer, I couldn't say anything for sure, but I do believe you could run Flash, Photoshop, and Dreamweaver (all pre-CS3, so CS2 and lower) under Wine. I also know of Nvu/ KomPoZer that both do webpages, but I don't think they'll match Dreamweaver.

Hope this helped.

Half-Left
October 7th, 2008, 04:59 PM
No, GIMP doesn't have that feature and I agree it could do with layer group. Krita2 has just hit beta, which has layer grouping.

Dont rule out Photoshop in WINE if thats what your wanting, it's a option if needed.

zer0efx
October 7th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Wow! Fast and great responses! Excellent!

Thanks guys, I will check out these progs and look into Wine.

Appreciate it! :grin:

jedimasterk
October 8th, 2008, 05:08 AM
Linux is lacking big time in professional photo editing and video editing apps. Don't let others convince you otherwise. Linux apps are good, but are no way meant for professional use. I'm talking Gimp, Krita, Bluefish, etcc. Check out Adobe's new CS4 apps. Awesome!!. But you get what you pay for. And they are targeted towards professionals!.

airtonix
October 8th, 2008, 11:57 AM
In my opinion, if your target device isnt cmyk....then you dont need photoshop.

as for your dependancy on dreamweaver: are you running a large team of people who edit and update large sites already dependant on the dreamweaver templating system? if not you dont need dreamweaver(it's actually hampering your ability to understand and visualise efficient html)

use gEdit with its plugins. or geany. for flash animation....you really ought to ask yourself what parts of your website are using flash and why...not a vague question 'why' but a real technical 'why are we limiting ourselves to a closed source format' the only viable reason i can see that you would be providing videos. even then...

in then end my advice is : grow out of the parceltronics that windows embroils you in and move onto real web-design with a text editor that provides code colouring and document browsing (like gedit or geany) and get used to creating site mockups in inkscape.

if you still consider that dreamweaver and photoshop are things 'you simply must have', then i suggest you take some time out and read through the articles at : alistapart.com

jedimasterk
October 8th, 2008, 01:53 PM
In my opinion, if your target device isnt cmyk....then you dont need photoshop.

as for your dependancy on dreamweaver: are you running a large team of people who edit and update large sites already dependant on the dreamweaver templating system? if not you dont need dreamweaver(it's actually hampering your ability to understand and visualise efficient html)

use gEdit with its plugins. or geany. for flash animation....you really ought to ask yourself what parts of your website are using flash and why...not a vague question 'why' but a real technical 'why are we limiting ourselves to a closed source format' the only viable reason i can see that you would be providing videos. even then...

in then end my advice is : grow out of the parceltronics that windows embroils you in and move onto real web-design with a text editor that provides code colouring and document browsing (like gedit or geany) and get used to creating site mockups in inkscape.

if you still consider that dreamweaver and photoshop are things 'you simply must have', then i suggest you take some time out and read through the articles at : alistapart.com

Like I said before if your a professional don't let others convince you otherwise. And yes Dreamweaver and Photoshop CS4 are products that allot of professionals simply need to have for their workflows. But they need the stability of Linux as well!. This rant is not about what amateurs need, but what professionals need to use Linux, and Adobe products are one of those things that needs to be ported to Linux to gain market share in the entertainment and professional photography fields.

Half-Left
October 8th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Linux is lacking big time in professional photo editing and video editing apps. Don't let others convince you otherwise. Linux apps are good, but are no way meant for professional use. I'm talking Gimp, Krita, Bluefish, etcc. Check out Adobe's new CS4 apps. Awesome!!. But you get what you pay for. And they are targeted towards professionals!.

We know Photoshop is one of the best of it's type, but lets not over do it shall we? Even professionals were surprised at how GIMP can do stuff. Professionals even use the basic tools to do their work which GIMP has, you just need to create your own workflow in it to get over some of the drawbacks.

zer0efx
October 8th, 2008, 03:53 PM
airtonix, I wasn't asking for people to question why I use flash, dw or ps. I was asking if there are programs like it for the linux platform. Seems there's a some (which I use loosely) here who question my web professionalism and wonder why I do things the way I do. That wasn't the intent of this post and there are reasons to use flash and when not to use flash. That being said, most of the flash I design/develop are interactive CD's we use for our products and training material. Never do I create a site in 100% flash environment and I always create my sites with the most limited user in mind. So I thank you for your input, but let's not question the career I've been doing for the past 10 years.

My "dependency" on dreamweaver is purely because I've been a windows users my entire career. I don't use the DW icons and buttons to help my development, but I always code in the panel view and upload to the dev servers for testing. Every WYSIWYG editor adds erroneous code that is bloated and not needed, I know this, and this is why all my coding is done by hand. This way, I know the code inside and out, I know where each element of the site is, and where to go to troubleshoot areas that need it. So perspectively, I do have a dependency on DW, but that's because it's what I've been using since I have started.. well I actually first started out on Notepad back in the day.

Flash is largely used on a number of sites for great visuals and introductory awe, and video. When users hit a site, you have about 10 seconds to keep them there before they decide if this is the site they want, or if they need to go somewhere else. And I never restrict a user to the closed source of flash. If my websites do not find a flash player, we have static replacements to fill the gap. And flash is still a great tool to know and perfect. Flash is becoming a key player in Gaming, cell phone, PDA, and handheld device development. To throw it out and not know the program is only limiting your ability to become a better designer/developer with more to offer an employer.... and of course more pay. :)

As for PS, it's strictly a state of comfort and experience. I can whip through PS and create complex sites in a few hours. To just drop it and go to a new program will severely slow my work flow and production times down. This is purely something I can not afford to do at this point. Because I am used to the Adobe products and have used them for a number of years, does not mean I need to "take a time out" to re-eavulate the way I work. That is just ridiculous and a snipe at my experience. The main reason I like PS so much is because of the layer grouping it has. Some of my sites have well over 200 layers, the most was 500 and anyone in the web field knows this one thing, sites and layout always change. With that always in mind, I use layer grouping so I can easily turn off/on a group, move a section to different area while not affecting another and to easily locate the layers and it's partner layers to make modifications and adjustments. Yes, CS has some great tools and layer effect options, bit from looking at GIMP, it's nothing that can't be done with a few extra channels and seconds. And yes, I do a lot of Print work and CMYK is a must to have.

With all this being said, Half-left hit it spot on. It's a work flow preference and will take some time to adjust and re-arrange my habits from one to the other. But for the sake of deadlines and efficient working, PS is needed to keep my design at the pace my employers hire me for. DW is easier to transition because I always hard code anyways, plus I hate how WYSIWYG editors always jack up my indentation. :mad: I like my pretty coding style.

All these post were good info, including airtonixs, even though you attacked the way I work. Thanks for the info everyone and I will look into the plugins for gedit, geany, and inkscape. I don't need to go to listpart for a timeout, I view their site daily along with ajaxian, quirk, and a few others.

Thanks! :biggrin:

AJB2K3
October 8th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Gimp uses PS brushes and rumoured to use PS plugins too.

oldsoundguy
October 8th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Gimp lacks the functionality of Adobe Bridge. An adjunct that I have found very useful.

WINE is "OK" but really not ready for prime time. There is an added (commercial=paid) program that increases the functionality of WINE, but still is lacking in some areas for the true photographer/graphic artist. But, still worth a look: http://www.bordeauxgroup.com/store/bordeaux-for-linux

Having said that, I still run a Windows machine for just Adobe and media. Everything else has been removed from the machine and it seldom goes on line except to upload or for BOINC .. which I run on it in the background.

When the developers finally realize that photographers/designers/artists, either amateur or professional, make up a very large portion of their potential market (would venture to say close to as much as computer gamers (not console gamers), they just might start devoting a bit more attention to them.

bashveank
October 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM
You could always run all those programs in a virtual machine, seamlessly even: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=433359

jedimasterk
October 9th, 2008, 04:44 AM
We know Photoshop is one of the best of it's type, but lets not over do it shall we? Even professionals were surprised at how GIMP can do stuff. Professionals even use the basic tools to do their work which GIMP has, you just need to create your own workflow in it to get over some of the drawbacks.

Name a few professional photographers who use Gimp?. And let me know if they have websites. I would like to see their work with Gimp.

airtonix
October 9th, 2008, 12:31 PM
zer0efx (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=196672), I also have been making wesbites for near on 10 years now...and have yet to use photoshop. The key here is that im not a graphic designer providing a full marketing media solution like you seem to be.

But if your only using dreamweaver for its hand coding features i highly suggest you look at gedit and its associated plugins, everything is there: code colouring, auto-indenting, file-browser, project/session saving, snippets, code insertion.

geany is another editor i have been messing around with, has a few more features but is aimmed more at low level programming...

seriously, if your not using dreamweaver for its templating system (which is it's major strength) then have a look at gedit or geany.

remember gedit and its plugins :)



Name a few professional photographers who use Gimp?. And let me know if they have websites. I would like to see their work with Gimp.Not sure about pro photographers but...

from : http://www.linux.com/feature/27821

Scooby-Doo, Harry Potter, Cats & Dogs, Dr. Dolittle 2, Little Nicky, Grinch, Sixth Day, Stuart Little, and Planet of the Apes, Showtime, Blue Crush, The Fast and the Furious II, Stuart Little IIall made using a special version of gimp called cinepaint in their production

Half-Left
October 9th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Name a few professional photographers who use Gimp?. And let me know if they have websites. I would like to see their work with Gimp.

They prefer Photoshop, they know it inside out, why use GIMP or any other for that matter.

Are you saying you can't create good quality artwork with GIMP or is GIMP no better than Dpaint on the amiga 20 years ago which they used for professional stuff?

Alot DONT, use Photoshop for Photo's, they use lightroom sort of apps which are a separate thing, and tell me, can you tell the difference between a Photo edited in Photoshop or edited in GIMP?

oldsoundguy
October 9th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Photoshop is not the only issue with the developers. Gimp DOES work and in many ways and is an almost frightening clone of Photshop. The documentation for Gimp is outstanding. (just that Deke McLelland has not done a video instruction of it's usage!! LOL)
It is just that when you want to integrate into programs like Dreamweaver, Or Flash creator or use Illustrator (which still is better in the CS suite than anything I have seen in Linux YET) or use the TOTAL functionality of a Wacom pad (again very usable in Linux but not TOTALLY yet .. still no airbrush .. but hats off to Wacom as they are trying!)
Integrating programs and hardware together for the photographer/graphic artist/designer is the issue at this time. Especially the professional as you are dealing with bottom line for those individuals and re-learning time is part of the expense (the time is money thing.)
(and there is still nothing even close to Auto-Cad that I have seen in operation.)

(I use Linux for 98% of my activities, but the above is still the reason I have a Windows box .. that most likely will change in the future .. but not quite yet!)

zer0efx
October 9th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Photoshop is not the only issue with the developers. Gimp DOES work and in many ways and is an almost frightening clone of Photshop. The documentation for Gimp is outstanding. (just that Deke McLelland has not done a video instruction of it's usage!! LOL)
It is just that when you want to integrate into programs like Dreamweaver, Or Flash creator or use Illustrator (which still is better in the CS suite than anything I have seen in Linux YET) or use the TOTAL functionality of a Wacom pad (again very usable in Linux but not TOTALLY yet .. still no airbrush .. but hats off to Wacom as they are trying!)
Integrating programs and hardware together for the photographer/graphic artist/designer is the issue at this time. Especially the professional as you are dealing with bottom line for those individuals and re-learning time is part of the expense (the time is money thing.)
(and there is still nothing even close to Auto-Cad that I have seen in operation.)

(I use Linux for 98% of my activities, but the above is still the reason I have a Windows box .. that most likely will change in the future .. but not quite yet!)

You take the words right out of my mouth! The inner-functionality of the Adobe products has dramatically increased my work flow and majorly cut-down on production time. CS3 really did a lot of things I was wanting the adobe to do. And I also use a wacom, love that thing, and I agree they're are making bounds to further expand their user base. Just dont like to wait! :)

itisbasi
October 28th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Isn't it way too expensive though... 689 usd for photoshop cs4!!!!!!!!!!? Judging from a pure economical point of view GIMP makes a whole lot of sense... It's truly brilliant for a free software.... 3 cheers to the open source community..

xoger
October 28th, 2008, 02:07 PM
photoshop works really well in wine (windows compatibility layer)

oldsoundguy
October 28th, 2008, 05:41 PM
photoshop works really well in wine (windows compatibility layer)

You missed the point. Yes. Photo Shop on it's OWN works in WINE .. just that it does not work with OTHER Adobe programs in WINE as they do not work!

Third party developers such as Bordeaux and now CodeWeavers are working on the issue and working HARD. Not too soon in the future will the migration be able to done.

cavrep
October 28th, 2008, 07:50 PM
The crux of this debate is "what is good web design" which may better debated elsewhere.

In my view simple attractive web pages are better than the complex and flashy web pages that professionals make. It seems to me they try too hard to justify their high prices by producing a complex page with lots of tricks.

I refuse to update to the latest flash player because it is proprietary, onerous and unnecessary.

The best web pages I've seen are Japanese pages, pure, simple and attractive. We in the western world are not happy until we complicate things with dreamweaver and flash.

If this is your philosophy the best web pages can be produced with gimp and compozer.

jenee
October 28th, 2008, 10:26 PM
Krita2 may not have a pretty gui but it has some very handy tools to work with,

Jackelope
October 28th, 2008, 10:48 PM
This might sound unrelated, but Code Weavers is giving away Crossover Pro today only. It will run PS better than wine IMO if you can't find a suitable linux equivalent instead. Just sharing some good news.

http://www.codeweavers.com

factotum218
October 29th, 2008, 04:10 AM
Disclaimer: I didn't read through all the comments. Just the first page.

I am in a similar situation. At work I do publishing and advert design. Nothing epic. Just stand alone display ads for a local news paper. I spent my early years lurking around devianart and reading graphic design magazines and burning my mice out on Photoshop 7 with a Win 2000 box. I've spent a total of two years on a Mac PERSONALY.

I use a MacPro 8-12 hours a day 6 days a week for a paycheck.
I'm at the point where I want to focus more on what would result more as RGB graphics in my free time.
More or less I'm a budding web developer. For me, this is a great opportunity to take a second look at the software available on a Linux system again. I could use Dreamweaver but I don't need to. I could use Photoshop and...well... to be honest, probably will, I do a lot of Wordpress design for clients and really like working on mockups with it and Imageready, even if it's 7 or CS2. I haven't found anything in CS3 or CS4 that I myself would need. Otherwise I have Inkscape and Scribus for those few times I might want to use something like that.

I've sort of written this as it spills out but I hope I make enough sense to make the point I am trying to make. That point is evaluate what your goals are and what tools you will need. Not even by name brand, I mean like "Okay, I need a text editor with a file browser if available, something to create vector graphics, things like that. If you've invested years in what you do and what tools you work with than stick with them. Make a hobby out of what else is out there like I do. Otherwise, if your just getting started then by all means have at the free stuff!

icodeme
October 29th, 2008, 07:01 AM
I love Linux. But I must admit, after 4 years of using Photoshop, it has provided my pro outcomes. GIMP is still far from that service. Although it is rumored that it uses PS brushes and someday provide PS plugins, it still cannot match Photoshop.
Somehow, this is applicable for professionals who needs pro outcome on their image manipulations. But if you need a basic manipulation, GIMP is good enough.

If not in dual boot, Just grab PS 2 and run it in Wine It works!:popcorn: