Four Valid Reasons to use Windows

[earthpigg]

edit: this is a light-hearted post, not a list of firmly held beliefs that i think everyone should subscribe to... im not even sure i subscribe to them. please notice the very first statement i made starting with "so, here..." ~end edit~

so, here is what is rolling around in my head right now:

there are four possible valid reasons to use any version of windows on a non-company-owned computer:

1) hard core gamer.

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).

3) enjoy malware.

4) you (or others with input/control over what you can do to your computer) are ignorant and/or lazy and/or you hate when people give you things for free.

if someone thinks they have a valid reason not listed above, then #4 probably applies to them. i know the validity of 1-3 are becoming less and less valid every day - i managed to get malware on my WINE install, but i was going out of my way to do so :).

And ill readily admit that #4 applied to me till just under a year ago - combination of laziness and ignorance.

any valid reasons i am missing?

disclaimer: i know presented as such, that is likely to come off as extremely arrogant depending on who i am talking to. i am not speaking at a Windows convention or anything... im posting on this forum :)

[lisati]

Another reason: too lazy to change the way things are.

[kdardio2415]

You would rather use a computer than work with it.

[LaRoza]

disclaimer: i know presented as such, that is likely to come off as extremely arrogant depending on who i am talking to. i am not speaking at a Windows convention or anything... im posting on this forum :)

Another one, one prefers Windows. Although I don't like Windows much, some may like it and have no reason to change. A choice is a choice. One shouldn't take flak for it.

(This thread may be moved to the Windows forum, as it is about Windows)

[Icehuck]

i know the validity of 1-3 are becoming less and less valid every day -


Where are all those PC games at ?

[earthpigg]

You would rather use a computer than work with it.

ok, i can kind of see that one. designed obscolescence kinda kicks the end user in the groin there, though.

yes, i spelled obscolescescescense wrong. im at work, on IE, with no spell check.

[earthpigg]

A choice is a choice. One shouldn't take flak for it.

who said anything about flak? i'd have to consult the man pages to change the oil of a car. i wouldn't be offended if someone said i was ignorant of vehicular mechanics. its true!

[zmjjmz]

yes, i spelled obscolescescescense wrong. im at work, on IE, with no spell check.

Portable Apps ftw.
Anyways, supposedly Linux does not have good CMYK support, so that's another reason to use Windows.
Oh, and your hardware not working is another reason.

[geoken]

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).



Graphic design is a pretty large umbrella. Just because someone is able to get buy using Linux doesn't mean someone else will.

[geoken]

Here are a few reasons;

- Movie Maker has no Linux alternative.
- Live Photo Gallery is better then every native photo-management app and only matched by Picasa (which runs in Wine anyway). And even then the Windows version of Picasa is newer/more feature rich than the Linux version.
- Windows Explorer is better than any Linux File Manager
- RocketDock is better than any Linux dock I've used
- My box boots faster and apps launch faster in Vista
- I can't find any circle menu launchers for Linux
- There is nothing in Linux that can match the Office '07/Microsoft Accounting/Contact Manager workflow



I'm sure I can list more.

[zmjjmz]

Here are a few reasons;

- Movie Maker has no Linux alternative. --Wrong. Open Movie Maker, Kdenlive, Blender, GIMP, I could go on.
- Live Photo Gallery is better then every native photo-management app and only matched by Picasa (which runs in Wine anyway). And even then the Windows version of Picasa is newer/more feature rich than the Linux version. Although I haven't used Live Photo Gallery, the online version of Picasa does perfectly for me. And then, F-Spot works very nicely too.
- Windows Explorer is better than any Linux File Manager Bovine Scat. Konqueror puts Explorer to shame. Two pane managers like worker make Explorer look terrible. Nautilus is better than Explorer.
- RocketDock is better than any Linux dock I've used Docks are overrated. But it's your choice.
- My box boots faster and apps launch faster in Vista I can safely say that's not the case with any of my 13 computers, most of which aren't capable of running Vista. Yet they are capable of running a good Linux distribution such as antiX or Debian and with them I can do things I would of used Vista for, and more. Can you tell me why Vista can't run on these boxes?
- I can't find any circle menu launchers for Linux I thought you used RocketDock?
- There is nothing in Linux that can match the Office '07/Microsoft Accounting/Contact Manager workflow Google Docs works very well with Gmail. Not so sure about accounting, I don't do much of that.

Added my responses. Do you want anything else?

[Frak]

1. It's Windows, which owns nearly the whole market still, so most apps are designed/only work for it.
2. Linux has rubbish CMYK support.
3. Hardware issues (if it only happens to you)
4. You're just happy using Windows. You really can't touch this one at all.

[Bölvaður]

This thread is quite silly.

But I'll try think of 4 reasons.

1) You are a dedicated professional or semi professional gamer (HIGH skilled gamer winning cups and money at tournaments)
2) You like to pirate software because you dont know about the CMYK format in some image editors in linux (use google :))
3) You are scared of change
4) You want to be the first to send machine that runs on windows to outerspace. And Im talking about the operating system.. there have been few actual windows in space, but because of mission critical reasons, the other kind of windows isnt as popular.

[zmjjmz]

Actually, several astronauts have Windows laptops on the ISS.

[earthpigg]

This thread is quite silly.

4) You want to be the first to send machine that runs on windows to outerspace. And Im talking about the operating system.. there have been few actual windows in space, but because of mission critical reasons, the other kind of windows isnt as popular.

silly = win.

and lol @ #4... space shuttle uses some decades old Unix setup, right?

edit: completely off topic, but wikipedia has a high rez photo of the space shuttle cockpit:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/STSCPanel.jpg

i cant find the Photon Torpedo button :(

[CarlosNYB]

Sorry, feeling a bit windy...

Re: #1 above, market share...

Some people really do prefer something that has such a large market share that they can easily go to a store and see lots of professional stuff already to go, walk into Bestbuy or an Apple Store and not think about what hardware/software to get, etc.

Back in the Bronze age which started shortly after I first learned computers (not as far back as the Stone age when C was invented..., I mean I was born before C but I wasn't programming then... anyhow, aeons ago), the PC clone thing really go things going. Otherwise it was an issue of gee, my computer (be it an Atari or Commodore or Apple) only supports this or this or this. The idea that all these IBM PC clones could use the same software, the same operating system, the same hardware, was a wild thing.

Unix and Linux culture extended this concept, along with open-standards organizations in general.

That said, if someone didn't make a PC clone way back then, it basically couldn't run PC software, period, it couldn't use PC hardware, period. Even then, this is pre-Windows 95 'plug and pray'... My best friend's dad worked at IBM fixing hardware, those were the days it could REALLY be agony to get hardware to work even with something designed for it, and maybe a soldering gun.

And so also, today, if someone makes a closed source driver, or if someone doesn't develop things to work with automatic configurations, things can get difficult.

Open standards are great. But ANY widely accepted standards are USEFUL. And Windows dominates and many use Windows standards, with their own closed source. It's a fact. So some will use Windows. No biggie. If they want their hardware from someone who does it closed source and not easily reverse-engineered, oh well, that's their preference. If they want a particular software package really bad and it isn't open source, well, what's it for, get it because it should work best for what it's built for. So be it.

Yes it sucks that hardware often has closed source or impossible to work with drivers, from a non-Windows or non-Mac point of view. Yes it sucks that some software really isn't portable to Unix or Linux. But *nix evolves every day.

Thankfully, the open source community has been thriving for years, making great advances to the point where for most types applications there is a suitable Linux variant (perhaps a superior Linux variant), and even for specialist professional applications, there are excellent options which are either already 'there' or 'getting real close...', and LOTS of stuff just works out of the box without having to install a driver. My camera, my printer, my iPod, my mouse buttons, my Delta-44 pro audio soundcard, none of it required looking for a special driver or using the install CD. I'm amazed at so many things I really just plug in and it just works.

[Frak]

IIRC, NASA uses Windows now as a replacement for their old Unix systems.

EDIT
I just saw the comment before this one.
Ever had to set the IRQ settings on an expansion card for an old Tandy/DOS (don't know what you have) box? As long as you knew which switch combos didn't interfere, or you prayed hard enough to make sure that two devices didn't interrupt at the same time, you were ok. That was back when you really had to be a pro to use a computer to it's fullest potential, as there was no software available to help with that.

[damis648]

Sorry, Steve Jobs was a former CEO of Pixar. I believe they use all Macs using Apple's Aperture, Final Cut Studio, Logic Studio, GarageBand, etc.

[the_darkside_986]

Another reason, some might feel that the old UNIX file abstraction for everything is outdated and pointless, and that NT's object oriented model is more suitable for modern computing. (I'm not literally saying NT series really properly implements object oriented abstraction, but some might feel that it does, for example.)

[zmjjmz]

Sorry, Steve Jobs was a former CEO of Pixar. I believe they use all Macs using Apple's Aperture, Final Cut Studio, Logic Studio, GarageBand, etc.

No, they use Linux.

[init1]

- I can't find any circle menu launchers for Linux

Apwal
http://apwal.free.fr/

sudo apt-get install apwal


Wrong. Open Movie Maker, Kdenlive, Blender, GIMP, I could go on.--

Yes, so could I, but none of those apps are actually good for movie editing. Open Movie Maker is total crap and crashes whenever I try to import something. Avidemux can't do much, and Cinerella crashes as soon as it starts. And, I'm not sure how you'd be able to edit a movie with GIMP or Blender.

5) You are forced to, because of your school or job
6) You want to run Windows-only apps that don't run in Wine (which is most Windows apps)

[damis648]

No, they use Linux.

Well my bad then.

[Northsider]

so, here is what is rolling around in my head right now:

there are four possible valid reasons to use any version of windows on a non-company-owned computer:

1) hard core gamer.

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).

3) enjoy malware.

4) you (or others with input/control over what you can do to your computer) are ignorant and/or lazy and/or you hate when people give you things for free.

if someone thinks they have a valid reason not listed above, then #4 probably applies to them. i know the validity of 1-3 are becoming less and less valid every day - i managed to get malware on my WINE install, but i was going out of my way to do so :).

And ill readily admit that #4 applied to me till just under a year ago - combination of laziness and ignorance.

any valid reasons i am missing?

disclaimer: i know presented as such, that is likely to come off as extremely arrogant depending on who i am talking to. i am not speaking at a Windows convention or anything... im posting on this forum :)

1. I'll have to agree there. Saying Wine doesn't cut it just doesn't cut it. I guess it works wonders for some (most?) people, but every attempt for me has been failure.

2. Graphics design? I use GIMP and Inkscape and both work better in linux than the windows versions. Besides don't Macs have the upper hand over windows anyways in that department?

3. I guess, if you enjoy it... I just got some yesterday, first time in like 5 years, not fun.

4.0 ArcGIS. Linux alternatives and/or GrassGIS, or FreeGIS just don't cut it. Sure Arc is bloatware from hell, but it works the way I need it to work...nothing else comes close.

4.1 Don't get me wrong, I love linux, but sometimes the command line is just annoying. Yes there are a lot of things you can do with it, but windows has many programs that can do it in one point and click, without having to memorize or look up some some monotonous code/function. Example: I need to convert FLV, MPG, WMV, and AVI movies into AVI and merge them all into one file. Xilisoft video converter does it in one fell swoop. I'm sure someone will try and counter that example with "ever heard of X..., or noob, try blah..."...I'm sorry, sometimes Windows is just better in these areas with the plethora of programs available.

[zmjjmz]

4.1 Don't get me wrong, I love linux, but sometimes the command line is just annoying. Yes there are a lot of things you can do with it, but windows has many programs that can do it in one point and click, without having to memorize or look up some some monotonous code/function. Example: I need to convert FLV, MPG, WMV, and AVI movies into AVI and merge them all into one file. Xilisoft video converter does it in one fell swoop. I'm sure someone will try and counter that example with "ever heard of X..., or noob, try blah..."...I'm sorry, sometimes Windows is just better in these areas with the plethora of programs available.
When you get to use it, the terminal is amazing. It's one of the biggest things that will never let me go back to Windows or OSX.
Anyways, there generally are GUI tools to do that (Konverter, gfslice) but nobody tells you that because it's easier for you to copy/paste terminal commands.

[earthpigg]

When you get to use it, the terminal is amazing. It's one of the biggest things that will never let me go back to Windows or OSX.
Anyways, there generally are GUI tools to do that (Konverter, gfslice) but nobody tells you that because it's easier for you to copy/paste terminal commands.

OS X = unix = has a terminal

however, i have no idea if apple allowed it to retain its power.

[zmjjmz]

OS X = unix = has a terminal

however, i have no idea if apple allowed it to retain its power.

I've tried it. It's not that it isn't powerful (it has bash), it's just that a lot of the terminal apps I use aren't available for OS X.

[Frak]

No, they use Linux.
They only use Linux for rendering.

In my book, that doesn't count as "using linux".

I've tried it. It's not that it isn't powerful (it has bash), it's just that a lot of the terminal apps I use aren't available for OS X.

99% of the Linux distro's use BASH, along with utilities that are built into OS X.

[zmjjmz]

They only use Linux for rendering.

In my book, that doesn't count as "using linux".


Then what does it count as? They definitely use it.

[Frak]

Then what does it count as? They definitely use it.
True, they technically use it, but they don't really create things on it, only put it together. Macs are used for the initial creation.

[geoken]

Then what does it count as? They definitely use it.

It doesn't count in the context you used it because you were making it seem as if that somehow invalidates the 'Linux isn't good for graphic designers' claim. If they're only using linux as the OS for their render farms, then they still need to use another OS to develop on.

[niccholaspage]

1) hard core gamer.

Something that needs fixing.

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).

I would say most people don't need any graphic design software. And GIMP should be enough.

3) enjoy malware.

I LOVE this reason!

4) you (or others with input/control over what you can do to your computer) are ignorant and/or lazy and/or you hate when people give you things for free.

Another good one.

[zmjjmz]

It doesn't count in the context you used it because you were making it seem as if that somehow invalidates the 'Linux isn't good for graphic designers' claim. If they're only using linux as the OS for their render farms, then they still need to use another OS to develop on.

But other studios, such as the one behind that movie with the bridge and the CGI monsters (I forget the name :P) used Linux exclusively.
So it is perfectly suitable for graphics, just not if you need heavy CMYK support.

[geoken]

Added my responses. Do you want anything else?

Yeah, I want apps that work as good/better. I don't wont you to post the results of your Google search for 'Linux Movie Maker alternative'. Have you ever used Movie Maker. I've used Open Movie Maker, KdenLive, Cinerala, kino, pitivi and maybe a few others I can't remember. None of them could get through my simple project of creating a preview video for a DVD without crashing multiple times. I actually had to run Windows in a VM to complete my task.


Vista can't run on your old boxes because it's made to run on and take advantage of lots of ram and resources. If you don't have the resources it will run dog slow, if you do have them it will run faster than Linux.

I use rocketDock as a task manager (live thumbnails for minimized windows) and for 'stacks' on my project folder. I use circleDock as a replacement for my quicklaunch menu.

As for filemanagers, In what way does Nautilus even begin to compare to Explorer? If you could find even a single feature Nautilus has that explorer doesn't, I'll find 15 that go the other way. Also, Explorer is faster than Nautilus.

[geoken]

But other studios, such as the one behind that movie with the bridge and the CGI monsters (I forget the name :P) used Linux exclusively.
So it is perfectly suitable for graphics, just not if you need heavy CMYK support.

Again, your using the term 'graphics' way too liberally. Graphic design is a hugely varied field. You can't say it's suitable for graphics because your able to satisfy a small subset of graphic designers.

[Frak]

And GIMP should be enough.

There are many features missing in GIMP. Some lot of those features are handy and used a lot in professional applications.

[zmjjmz]

Yeah, [..] task.
Kdenlive has worked perfectly for me. Not so sure abut you.

take advantage of lots of ram and resources.
But for the average user, they don't need it to. Vista was heavily criticized for using too much resources. I don't need 2GB RAM to do some web browsing and e-mail and word processing. 256MB should suffice.

I [...] menu.
I personally think live thumbnails are worthless. If I want to check on something, I would prefer to set Compiz's window preview to full size, so that I can view the entire window by just hovering over its entry in the window list. I launch most of my programs contextually or through a series of drawers on a GNOME panel
Stacks are also probably possible through gnome-panel, but it may not be as pretty. There is an AWN plugin for it though.

As [...] Nautilus.
Tabs. It may not be present in 8.04, but it is present in 8.10. I don't know if Explorer will have that anytime soon. And although you asked for Explorer vs. Nautilus, I think a more useful manager is worker, with chmod, shell input, and much more.

[Something you said about graphics]
Of course I didn't mean all graphics designers will find it suitable. CMYK users won't find it suitable, and obviously people who depend on apps not available for Linux for graphics work won't use it, but that falls under the category of a lack of commercial apps, not bad graphics support

Anyways, use what you will. I actually don't care if you use Vista or not.

[CarlosNYB]

Ever had to set the IRQ settings on an expansion card for an old Tandy/DOS (don't know what you have) box? As long as you knew which switch combos didn't interfere, or you prayed hard enough to make sure that two devices didn't interrupt at the same time, you were ok. That was back when you really had to be a pro to use a computer to it's fullest potential, as there was no software available to help with that.

My first program, in middle school algebra class, was in basic, on punch cards. '81 or '82. Then around '84 I got an Atari 800XL -- 64 MB, peeking and poking just to get any tune or sound effect out of it, etc. Didn't have to play with IRQ's until windows 3.1 or 95. Between then I had lots of fun in college on the original Macintoshes, Mac Classic, etc.

Re: Movies, Graphics, Sound....

There's definitely things that Linux can do very very professionally, and there are definitely things that are the professional standard and unequalled on a specific platform.

But Silicon Graphics workstations should be mentioned in this context... they aren't Macintosh... they weren't/aren't chopped liver.

I like ZynAddSubFx SoftSynthesizer, Beast, and Hydrogen better than a lot of the things I've seen in VST form in Sonar (Windows) or in Logic Audio Pro. But on the other hand, hooking them up with Rosegarden and/or Ardour is something I'd like to get working more intuitively/smoothely (maybe I'll script something in Bash or PythonCard that will help organize and launch project programs appropriately). I'm still seeing if I can feel as comfortable/productive with Rosegarden/Ardour, there's a learning curve when you change Sequencers or DAWs. Similarly with something like Photoshop or Gimp. Some features found on Mac or Windows pro audio software I never used, don't need. Some were handy (sysex bulk dump send/receive built into Sonar), but maybe I can script something that is fairly intuitive and then contribute to the linux community that way.

As things evolve sooner or later more and more pro features that are popular/necessary will be built in, and the gap will become smaller. I've seen that happen quite a bit just since 2001.

But in the meantime ya got to do what ya got to do, and if you need something specific, well, ok, whether it's linux or not. Some people will not find the learning curve of switching acceptable/practical/efficient/worthwhile, some will find certain features essential to professional work and efficiency/workflow, and so a preference for a specific app will be strong enough to matter to them.

If Windows and Mac were also open source, some things STILL wouldn't get ported one way or the other, based upon time resources of the developer communities, their idiosyncrasies. And so for some apps there would be people using OpenWindows or OpenMac.

[chungy]

4.1 Don't get me wrong, I love linux, but sometimes the command line is just annoying. Yes there are a lot of things you can do with it, but windows has many programs that can do it in one point and click, without having to memorize or look up some some monotonous code/function. Example: I need to convert FLV, MPG, WMV, and AVI movies into AVI and merge them all into one file. Xilisoft video converter does it in one fell swoop. I'm sure someone will try and counter that example with "ever heard of X..., or noob, try blah..."...I'm sorry, sometimes Windows is just better in these areas with the plethora of programs available.

One of my biggest gripes with Windows is exactly that the command line is so weak it's nearly useless. I almost always install MSYS on Windows computers just to have a resemblance of sanity. Sorry, but GUI alternatives are often worse, slower, and resource-consuming.

Anyway, I've used Avidemux for simple video editing, and it's not that hard to get around in it.

[saulgoode]

True, they technically use it, but they don't really create things on it, only put it together. Macs are used for the initial creation.

Pixar produces and markets RenderMan Studio for OSX, Windows XP, and GNU/Linux. Despite the name, it is desktop application used for the initial creation of "things". Pixar also markets RenderMan For Maya which is a plug-in for the Autodesk Maya modeling and animation editor. Maya is marketed for the OSX, Windows XP, and GNU/Linux platforms.

While I know no specifics about the deployment of the various workstation platforms at Pixar Animation Studios, I find it unreasonable that Pixar should not be using a significant number of all platforms which their software product targets. In addition, Pixar reportedly runs hundreds of HP workstations which, by Apple's own restrictions, cannot possibly be running OSX.

If there is some supporting evidence that Pixar uses Mac workstations exclusively -- or even predominantly -- I should be quite interested in knowing its source. Lacking such corroboration, the more logical conclusion would be that Pixar employs GNU/Linux and Windows workstations in addition to their OSX ones.

[Icehuck]

In addition, Pixar reportedly runs hundreds of HP workstations which, by Apple's own restrictions, cannot possibly be running OSX.


Pixar is owned by Disney and Steve Jobs sits on the board of directors as the single largest share holder of Disney. Do you think the OSX license agreement would apply to Pixar? I'm guessing this would be completely acceptable if it needed to be done.

I know this had nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I couldn't help commenting on this particular piece.

[VorDesigns]

so, here is what is rolling around in my head right now:

there are four possible valid reasons to use any version of windows on a non-company-owned computer:

1) hard core gamer.

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).

3) enjoy malware.

4) you (or others with input/control over what you can do to your computer) are ignorant and/or lazy and/or you hate when people give you things for free.

if someone thinks they have a valid reason not listed above, then #4 probably applies to them. i know the validity of 1-3 are becoming less and less valid every day - i managed to get malware on my WINE install, but i was going out of my way to do so :).

And ill readily admit that #4 applied to me till just under a year ago - combination of laziness and ignorance.

any valid reasons i am missing?

disclaimer: i know presented as such, that is likely to come off as extremely arrogant depending on who i am talking to. i am not speaking at a Windows convention or anything... im posting on this forum :)

You only show 1 valid reason; the game companies don't want to **** off Microsoft.

With two you're wrong; Mac is better than PC for creative endeavors.

Three is clearly a joke

And four only applies to places where you don't have a choice.

[Koselara]

As for filemanagers, In what way does Nautilus even begin to compare to Explorer?

Does the Vista version of Explorer have far more abilities? I seem to recall the XP one being rather limited, and it has only been a few months since I used it.

If you take other distros and options into consideration, as a newbie Kubuntu user I discovered and have been impressed by Krusader. I used to be very picky about file manager use under XP, so that might say something... Then again, my standards fell under a truck to "ohno just let it frickin work argh noooo please don't crash" in these early few months of learning-as-I-go-along, so it could be that I was simply thrilled at having two panes at the mere request of a menu. :)

I'll give an answer from a slightly different perspective on the "valid reasons to use windows":
The person encounters far more app/system crashes using Linux than XP, can't find clear instructions for less common apps they want to do/try, and are too uncomfortable or socially anxious to ask for help.
(I bet this accounts for more than a few people that switch back...)

[croucho]

Now that I have WOW running with Wine, I have completely removed windows form my laptop. Visual Studio was pretty nice for the coding (and Visual Assit), but to live windows free I can use Eclipse, vi, or emacs :)

[K.Mandla]

any valid reasons i am missing? ... :)
Isn't it possible that someone could just prefer it, and that be a valid reason?

It's an awful thought to me too, but there are some people who just like Windows. Seems like they should be able to do as they like, without being ignorant or lazy. Software freedom should work both ways, right?

[Northsider]

One of my biggest gripes with Windows is exactly that the command line is so weak it's nearly useless. I almost always install MSYS on Windows computers just to have a resemblance of sanity. Sorry, but GUI alternatives are often worse, slower, and resource-consuming.

I guess it's simply a matter of preference, and certainly depends on what you are doing. Plus, the majority of users don't even need to bother with the command line. I can't even think of why I'd ever need to use it in windows...I think I used it a few times to get my ip address and such, thats it. I'm not arguing for or against it, but I think linux users in general have to realize that the command line isn't always desirable (functionality-wise, sure it's great...but not all of us want to learn and look up the commands every time).

Anyways, there generally are GUI tools to do that (Konverter, gfslice) but nobody tells you that because it's easier for you to copy/paste terminal commands.
I'd rather not have to look up a command every time and copy and paste for certain functions For installing a program, it's great! A simple 'apt-get install' does the trick, not hard to remember that.

Seems like they should be able to do as they like, without being ignorant or lazy. Software freedom should work both ways, right?
You do have a point. Sometimes I just want to use windows (and often do with my dual boot system). I know the limitations and downsides...but so what? I like it. That being said I love Kubuntu as well. I know smoking isn't healthy, but hell, I love smoking my cigars!

[skunkbad]

I use Windows, Mac, and both Linux desktop and server, so please understand that I have no favorite, and I don't think it's totally appropriate to bash Windows or Windows users.

Especially considering that Ubuntu, which I think is the most user friendly Linux, is hard to configure in terms of tweaking the xorg.conf for dual monitor and multi-button mice, it's really not suitable for the mid-range user. Sure you can put Grandma on it, and us Geeks are satisfied, but it's just not right for the "average" person.

Windows does have an advantage of having many really good free programs. For instance Notepad++. Yes, there is a version available for Ubuntu, but it is not the same. Many open source programs that are very good are available on Windows.

Another thing... all the hype about Windows being vulnerable in terms of security... I just gotta say that I've been using Windows since v3.1, and I've never had a virus, and never had a crash.

[Giant Speck]

I can find a few reasons why people continue with this stupid argument:

1. People are ignorant.
2. People are arrogant.
3. People want others to choose what they choose and only what they choose.
4. People think everyone has the same experience with an operating system.
5. People get religious about their operating system.
6. People won't shut up about their operating system.
7. People want other people to only use their operating system. (goes hand-in-hand with number 3)
8. People blindly believe their operating system is superior just because it works for them or some other fanatic tells them it is.

It's an operating system.

I don't give a rat's butt what operating system you use. If you are happy about it, fine. If you think it's the spawn of Satan, fine. Just shut up about it already.

[airjaw]

LOL Post of the Year!

Folks, stop getting so religious about your favorite OS, text editor, processor, programming language, etc. You're no different than fanatical Christians who wonder why everyone else can't wake up and see the light.

I realize this probably won't stop most of you ubuntu zealots but it had to be said. its so annoying to listen to you.

that said, I use Ubuntu for some tasks - tasks that it does better than Windows, such as development. Ubuntu is getting better for sure but you can bet that if it starts to suck or if I find a better OS i'm gonna ditch Ubuntu and not look back. If you really want to have better luck converting people to your religion, make ubuntu better instead of sitting around belittling people for being too lazy/stupid/ignorant to change from windows. Most windows users have never heard of ubuntu and its funny how much you guys talk about them because they really could care less.

[quinnten83]

My main reason, better software support.
Commercial products tend to be more polished than many opensource counterparts, because they have to make money. So software companies make sure that people will want to use their product, by making them look better and doing their job. Granted, some of them fail miserably at it, but the intention is there.

What I dislike about a lot of Linux applications is that their GUI is just counterintuitive. I love gimp, but it sometimes can be difficult to figure out where a certain function might be.

Take the gnome panel even, gnome is supposed to be simple, but you have printer configuration in 2 separate places 9application>accessories> manage printjobs & system>administration>printing) Why not just create a single entry in hardware called printers? Everything in one place.

Also sometimes it's difficult to know if a certain software is maintained or not. Take dia, it kinda looks outdated, even the website looks outdated. Is it still maintained? I dunno, I can't find that info anywhere and the last newsupdate on the site is not recent. Granted this dia thing is a pet-peeve of mine. I wanted a good alternative to visio and as much as a delight to work with, and I haven't found it. I wish OOO draw would resemble it more.

So, using software without the frustration, that would be nice.
But then again, I can't expect people who code in their freetime from the kindness of their hearts to give me proffesional level quality software for free either, It just would be fair.

[quinnten83]

LOL Post of the Year!

Folks, stop getting so religious about your favorite OS, text editor, processor, programming language, etc. You're no different than fanatical Christians who wonder why everyone else can't wake up and see the light.

I realize this probably won't stop most of you ubuntu zealots but it had to be said. its so annoying to listen to you.

Well to be fair, in a way using Linux is like seeing the light and accepting Tux into your heart and be delivered from the chains of propietary. And you want to go out and preach the good OS. Praise be given to the Torvalds, the Stallman and the holy tux.
OKay, now i am done p!$$!ng off a lot of christians.
:P

Personally, I don't think everybody SHOULD use Linux, but i think everybody should give it a chance. At least consider your options, right? Don't just get sucked into one thing, think, consider, be enlightened!

[LaRoza]

Another one, one prefers Windows. Although I don't like Windows much, some may like it and have no reason to change. A choice is a choice. One shouldn't take flak for it.

(This thread may be moved to the Windows forum, as it is about Windows)

Isn't it possible that someone could just prefer it, and that be a valid reason?

It's an awful thought to me too, but there are some people who just like Windows. Seems like they should be able to do as they like, without being ignorant or lazy. Software freedom should work both ways, right?

Way too late ;)

[styfle]

I'm number one: Hardcore gamer
Thats why only the lappy has linux
Desktop is on XP

[earthpigg]

wow... cant believe i caused such a shytstorm with my OP... it was meant to be a lighthearted post!

notice i called myself ignorant, and started off saying it was just something bouncing around in my head. ie, NOT some firmly held belief :)

edit: edited the OP to clarify that im not attempting to write gospel. lol.

[Giant Speck]

wow... cant believe i caused such a shytstorm with my OP... it was meant to be a lighthearted post!

notice i called myself ignorant, and started off saying it was just something bouncing around in my head. ie, NOT some firmly held belief :)

A lot of these "lighthearted" posts turn in to a crapstorm for one reason and one reason only: people are way too serious about this issue to find humor relevant.

[earthpigg]

A lot of these "lighthearted" posts turn in to a crapstorm for one reason and one reason only: people are way too serious about this issue to find humor relevant.

i demand that this poster immediately be banned for promoting the use of non-FOSS software. you on it, LaRoza?

[Giant Speck]

i demand that this poster immediately be banned for promoting the use of non-FOSS software. you on it, LaRoza?

*opens Internet Explorer*

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[LaRoza]

i demand that this poster immediately be banned for promoting the use of non-FOSS software. you on it, LaRoza?

Sure, earths.

I'll ban the evil Windows user.

[earthpigg]

ty.

[Sycron]

Linux is NOT Windows people! In windows I can't have compiz fusion , neither gedit, htop , free. It doesn't see my ext3,ext2 and reiserfs filesystems. It's very choppy when it comes to multitasking. I have to reinstall again all the softwares when a new versions has arrived. In Ubuntu sudo apt-get update & sudo apt-get upgrade do the job. In windows I don't have repositories, so every software that I install could be mallware.

In windows I can't install twenty programs with a single command, etc. Windows is BAD/OUTDATED (*) people. All things that make it to appear better is the large database of BIG softwares like Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, Maya, etc.

The more software I install the more sluggish is. So I have to change the computer every 2years... The latest version of ubuntu works awesome on a 6years old computer.

(*) We are living in 2008. How can we use a OS made in 2001/2006 ?

[karellen]

#4 is just your opinion, try not to oversimplify things ;). many dual boot because they like to be in touch with both sides of the fence :)

[woli]

-You are extremely disorganized, so you want your os to be as well
-You think slow, so you want a slow computer as well
-You enjoy crappy 'effects'--which are unintentional--like the window trail
-You like to pay for programs which will give your computer a crappy version of compiz's graphic effects, yet will slow down your computer a ton more
-Chronic love for the BSOD

[Sycron]

-You are extremely disorganized, so you want your os to be as well
-You think slow, so you want a slow computer as well
-You enjoy crappy 'effects'--which are unintentional--like the window trail
-You like to pay for programs which will give your computer a crappy version of compiz's graphic effects, yet will slow down your computer a ton more
-Chronic love for the BSOD

nice, true

[FranMichaels]

*opens Internet Explorer*

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Um, if you are running Windows it's already open (explorer.exe, you can't have a start menu without it.)

Muhaha...hah. eh...hum.

Heck, try typing a url when you are browsing your C: drive. Surprised?

Disclaimer: my Windows knowledge is 3 years out of date.

P.S. For those opening Internext Explorer via wine, you just tossed a "valid reason" for running Windows... out the window. :KS

[uberdonkey5]

Here are a few reasons;

- Movie Maker has no Linux alternative.
- Live Photo Gallery is better then every native photo-management app and only matched by Picasa (which runs in Wine anyway). And even then the Windows version of Picasa is newer/more feature rich than the Linux version.
- Windows Explorer is better than any Linux File Manager
- RocketDock is better than any Linux dock I've used
- My box boots faster and apps launch faster in Vista
- I can't find any circle menu launchers for Linux
- There is nothing in Linux that can match the Office '07/Microsoft Accounting/Contact Manager workflow



I'm sure I can list more.

I have vista home edition (hardly anything extra on there) and ubuntu packed full of stuff, and my vista still boots slower than ubuntu (dual boot).. though really there is not much difference. You must kick your computer or something when ubuntu boots up ;)

Also, windows does specialise in being 'new and lots of extra features' (that people don't want). Even windows users complain regularly about having to upgrade to increasingly heavy systems with new features they don't use.

I know LaRoza said that some people just 'prefer' windows. But I am sure for most users it is simply 'cos they are used to it...

I had heard that microsoft have projects in Angola and Mocambique to give them cheap/free software in schools. How beneficient :D OR are they ensuring that when they are adults they only know windows.. its like pushing drugs on young kids.

OK, so my 4 reasons:
1. you are used to windows and too much hassle to change
2. installation is easier
3. gaming
4. you always messed up the computer when messing around with ubuntu

[geoken]

I have vista home edition (hardly anything extra on there) and ubuntu packed full of stuff, and my vista still boots slower than ubuntu (dual boot).. though really there is not much difference. You must kick your computer or something when ubuntu boots up ;)

Also, windows does specialise in being 'new and lots of extra features' (that people don't want). Even windows users complain regularly about having to upgrade to increasingly heavy systems with new features they don't use.

I know LaRoza said that some people just 'prefer' windows. But I am sure for most users it is simply 'cos they are used to it...

I had heard that microsoft have projects in Angola and Mocambique to give them cheap/free software in schools. How beneficient :D OR are they ensuring that when they are adults they only know windows.. its like pushing drugs on young kids.

OK, so my 4 reasons:
1. you are used to windows and too much hassle to change
2. installation is easier
3. gaming
4. you always messed up the computer when messing around with ubuntu

I think you're completely missing the point here. The question was, why would someone use Windows other than the 4 options given.

It's not really relevant whether Vista boots slower on YOUR hardware. As long as someone, somewhere has a setup that boots Windows faster than it's a completely valid reason. Same with the 'features people don't want argument'. I don't really care whether 99% of people have no clue what 'Stack view' is. It's still a valid reason for using Windows for that 1% of people who consider it an indispensable feature.

[billgoldberg]

OS X = unix = has a terminal

however, i have no idea if apple allowed it to retain its power.

I guess nobody ever explained you what the "=" sign means or is used for.

[geoken]

Kdenlive has worked perfectly for me. Not so sure abut you.

I'm glad it worked for you. Unfortunately, the instability of these types of apps on Linux is a recurring theme on these forums. For those people, it's definately a valid reason to use Windows.


But for the average user, they don't need it to. Vista was heavily criticized for using too much resources. I don't need 2GB RAM to do some web browsing and e-mail and word processing. 256MB should suffice.

Again, the thread is asking why *someone* would use Windows. There are plenty of people who have computers with strong processors and 3+ gigs of RAM. I'm not arguing whther or not they're in the majority, I'm only saying that if Windows runs faster for those people it is again a valid reason for using Windows.


I personally think live thumbnails are worthless. If I want to check on something, I would prefer to set Compiz's window preview to full size, so that I can view the entire window by just hovering over its entry in the window list. I launch most of my programs contextually or through a series of drawers on a GNOME panel
Stacks are also probably possible through gnome-panel, but it may not be as pretty. There is an AWN plugin for it though.

Again, a completely subjective response. The issue here isn't what you consider useless/usefull. It's to find actual differences which could, by extension, be valid reasons for preferring the OS. I could just as easily say Compiz's window preview is useless because it shows nothing for minimized windows.

As for AWN, it's development is far behind rocketDock. It still can't even be put on the top or sides.


Tabs. It may not be present in 8.04, but it is present in 8.10. I don't know if Explorer will have that anytime soon. And although you asked for Explorer vs. Nautilus, I think a more useful manager is worker, with chmod, shell input, and much more.

Stack View, Grouped items,filtering, breadcrumb dropdowns, 200+ metadata types, dynamic folders, etc, etc. In worker can I go into a project folder, look at the 9 different index_v*.html files and choose the right one based on it's live preview icon?




Anyways, use what you will. I actually don't care if you use Vista or not.

I don't care what anyone uses either. I'm just trying to point out reasons that go beyond "lazy and ignorant".

[LaRoza]

I know LaRoza said that some people just 'prefer' windows. But I am sure for most users it is simply 'cos they are used to it...

That is a valid reason for preferring it. I prefer cotton shirts. I don't own any non cotton shirts. I haven't sampled all the various fabrics. I like cotton because I am used to it (besides its comfort).

[dirtylobster]

I love Vistas external monitor hotplugging.

[aeiah]

- better mobile phone support

- better support for on-demand tv such as 4OD, bbc iplayer, netflix on demand etc

- clippy

[uberdonkey5]

I think you're completely missing the point here. The question was, why would someone use Windows other than the 4 options given.

It's not really relevant whether Vista boots slower on YOUR hardware. As long as someone, somewhere has a setup that boots Windows faster than it's a completely valid reason. Same with the 'features people don't want argument'. I don't really care whether 99% of people have no clue what 'Stack view' is. It's still a valid reason for using Windows for that 1% of people who consider it an indispensable feature.

Yeh, realise we don't wanna copy the 'i love ubuntu' type threads, I just find it hard to believe that vista boots up on ANY system faster than ubuntu does. Also, with features, the majority of windows users I know use less features than I used to (I'm newish to linux). Maybe we need to ask actual windows users :) cos I my guess is that some of these reasons are theoretical but don't apply to real windows users.

I'm willing to bet that if you ask 100 windows users why they use windows they'll reply with something like 'apple mac is too expensive' he he. Ubuntu isn't even on their radar.

P.S. I suppose I have another reason for using windows.. so they can laugh at ubuntu users who copy the vista desktop :D

[Northsider]

I just find it hard to believe that vista boots up on ANY system faster than ubuntu does
Well, believe it. It does easily on my desktop, and when compared to my kubuntu laptop vista blows it out of the water.
Maybe we need to ask actual windows users
I actually use visa more often than ubuntu. Like I said it has it's problems, but sometimes I just want to use it. Sometimes I don't want to have to fiddle with the command prompt or mounting external drives. It's just a preference, and I really don't see why so many linux users make it out to be a bad thing that I would prefer a decent GUI (doesn't have to ridiculously pretty or anything) than the prompt, for example.

[ammikulka]

Actually, several astronauts have Windows laptops on the ISS.

and got a virus not too long ago, was in the news LOL :lolflag:

[woli]

OK, so my 4 reasons:
1. you are used to windows and too much hassle to change
2. installation is easier
3. gaming
4. you always messed up the computer when messing around with ubuntu

Wait wait wait wait.... INSTALLATION IS EASIER? In that crappy blue console screen??? Ubuntu gives a live CD man! You install in a nice comfortable GUI!!

[Sycron]

And you can install thirty programs with a SINGLE command, and have them updated AUTOMATICALLY.

[karellen]

I guess one could find many as many reasons to use Windows as to use Linux. it's a matter of personal choices, needs and preferences and reducing everything at making fun and mocking Windows users is not a constructive attitude, even on a Linux forum

[Sycron]

In my opinion the linux is HARD, is very HARD, and why you need that terminal? If it doesn't click,install-run, then WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

I bet that users that DID NOT use linux for at least 5mins say that. It's the FUD. And have to be stopped.

[cmat]

Wait wait wait wait.... INSTALLATION IS EASIER? In that crappy blue console screen??? Ubuntu gives a live CD man! You install in a nice comfortable GUI!!

To be fair Vista uses a nice Live-CD-ish installation and it's much easier to repair a system. Although previous versions of Windows have somewhat arcane installations.

In my opinion the linux is HARD, is very HARD, and why you need that terminal? If it doesn't click,install-run, then WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

I bet that users that DID NOT use linux for at least 5mins say that. It's the FUD. And have to be stopped.

Absolutely, my parents who have been using Windows for years had not problem logging in, installing software, using the net, etc. They figured this all out on their own. I only use the console for development purposes I never had to use to do anything I was able to do on Windows.

[Sycron]

Well a common valid reason to use windows is to buy the latest quad-core computer and put the 7 years old OS, Windows XP, So malwares are MUCH faster.

[Bachstelze]

How about "I use Windows because I freaking want to, and what runs on my computer is my ******* choice!"?

[Sycron]

That is YOUR choice. People use Windows because they don't know about OSS and linux. And if they know the FUD may stop them trying it.

[fiddledd]

How about "I use Windows because I freaking want to, and what runs on my computer is my ******* choice!"?

Yep, you almost took the words out of my mouth.:)

Nobody has to justify their choice.

"Freedom to choose", a bit like the Ubuntu philosophy, which at times seems like the best kept secret on these forums.

EDIT: @HymnToLife, I just gave you your 100th thanks, do I get a special prize?

[Giant Speck]

That is YOUR choice. People use Windows because they don't know about OSS and linux. And if they know the FUD may stop them trying it.

I use Windows and OSS and Linux.

FUD didn't scare me away, and it didn't make me uninstall Windows.

Does that mean I'm not "people"? Where do I fit in your pocket of stereotypes?

[Sycron]

We'll you are an example for the others.

[karellen]

That is YOUR choice. People use Windows because they don't know about OSS and linux. And if they know the FUD may stop them trying it.

maybe you (deliberately?) forget all the people that use Windows because they need to ;). talk to a CAD designer. or a professional graphic designer ;). you would get an interesting answer. don't be so quick in labeling the others, it's not a wise behavior. the choice of an OS doesn't make someone dumb or brainwashed. keep that in mind

[Sycron]

Good point however, I live with terrible people around me. For example this day at school one mate told me Why Borland C++ 3.1 for dos doesn't work ? (LOL how could you work with a copyright '1980 software on a 64bit CPU )

What I've done? I've installed notepad++ and Mingw. He told me... "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT? I WANT BORLAND "

Why people don't want to change something ? When say people I'm not refering to all of you, just the n00b mass.

[karellen]

Good point however, I live with terrible people around me. For example this day at school one mate told me Why Borland C++ 3.1 for dos doesn't work ? (LOL how could you work with a copyright '1980 software on a 64bit CPU )

What I've done? I've installed notepad++ and Mingw. He told me... "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT? I WANT BORLAND "

Why people don't want to change something ? When say people I'm not refering to all of you, just the n00b mass.

I know what you mean. as for the last question....there's no straight answer - probably it's a mixture of the fear of change, ignorance, laziness and narrow-mindedness

[rockface]

Yep, you almost took the words out of my mouth.:)

Nobody has to justify their choice.

"Freedom to choose", a bit like the Ubuntu philosophy, which at times seems like the best kept secret on these forums.

EDIT: @HymnToLife, I just gave you your 100th thanks, do I get a special prize?

Ubuntu Linux is the one of the most obtrusive brands of any Linux distribution, but my mother would struggle to go to my local IT emporium and pick up a laptop installed with a copy of Hardy (or any non-Microsoft OS for that matter), even if she asked for it by name.

If you need Microsoft as part of your infrastructure (profits and all) you will disagree with what I say. The point I am trying to make is, most people in modern IT cannot function without Microsoft telling them what to do and how to do it. They will not think without Microsoft approval. Unless it is from Microsoft, it simply does not exist.

I asked an MS-MVP (?) over IRC about much of what I think (this is my opinion after all), I got no answer whatsoever.

Microsoft apologists can say a choice is always available, but billions (that is the entire GDP of whole nations) have been spent to keep things just the way they are now.

I still await a spokesperson from 'The Redmond Appreciation Society' to say outright I have the wrong end of the stick. That includes people on these forums.

Interesting, not that I will get a reply.

[Giant Speck]

I know what you mean. as for the last question....there's no straight answer - probably it's a mixture of the fear of change, ignorance, laziness and narrow-mindedness

Or perhaps people like programs so much that when they change, they don't want to update it because they don't like the new changes. A great example: Not upgrading Firefox from 2.0.0.15 to 3.0.2, or not upgrading from KDE 3.5.10 to 4.1.

People aren't afraid of the change, they just don't like the change.

[rokytnji]

Can't tune a Harley Davidson.

More on the Pro Tuner: TTS is no longer the software supplier. The new supplier for the "Super Tuner" is SPX Kent Moore. The screens look more like the Digital Tech screens since the software is from the same supplier. There are currently no plans for "auto tune" or real time cell tracing, which would have been nice. Dealers will be limited to 4 Super Tuners per month as production on the new tuner ramps up. As the product is tuned the same way the old one is, there should be no problem in getting your bike taken care of while one product is ramped up and the older one is phased out. You will be able to paste and copy older tuning files from SERT to Super Tuner files. The new dongle marrys to the ECM as the old one did. The biggest advantage from my perspective is USB connectivety and the data record option on the new dongle. And from Steve Cole of TTS: [quote]Well for those of you who do not know me I work at TTS and we designed and manufactured the SERT and several other products for HD. Many updates that we wanted to do were turned down repeatedly by HD so that is why the product did not grow as it should have. That being said we will be releasing our tuning software for the HD bikes to the public in the end of Feb. first part of March. The product works on windows 98 and newer platforms and yes it's windows Vista compatible

[fiddledd]

Ubuntu Linux is the one of the most obtrusive brands of any Linux distribution, but my mother would struggle to go to my local IT emporium and pick up a laptop installed with a copy of Hardy (or any non-Microsoft OS for that matter), even if she asked for it by name.

If you need Microsoft as part of your infrastructure (profits and all) you will disagree with what I say. The point I am trying to make is, most people in modern IT cannot function without Microsoft telling them what to do and how to do it. They will not think without Microsoft approval. Unless it is from Microsoft, it simply does not exist.

I asked an MS-MVP (?) over IRC about much of what I think (this is my opinion after all), I got no answer whatsoever.

Microsoft apologists can say a choice is always available, but billions (that is the entire GDP of whole nations) have been spent to keep things just the way they are now.

I still await a spokesperson from 'The Redmond Appreciation Society' to say outright I have the wrong end of the stick. That includes people on these forums.

Interesting, not that I will get a reply.

When I said "Freedom to choose" I was referring to people in this forum, rather than the average user.

The average computer user neither knows nor cares about Linux. The only choice they are aware of is the choice between a Mac, or a PC running Windows.

The philosophical side of the argument is totally meaningless to millions of computer users. They don't know or care about FOSS, and the majority never will.

It's OK for people in this, and other similar forums, to discuss FOSS, MS, Linux, etc. But for the majority of the general computer using public we might as well be discussing the Theory of Relativity here.

All most people want is a working computer, and at the best price, the rest is no more important than what OS runs their mobile phone.

[Sycron]

Or perhaps people like programs so much that when they change, they don't want to update it because they don't like the new changes. A great example: Not upgrading Firefox from 2.0.0.15 to 3.0.2, or not upgrading from KDE 3.5.10 to 4.1.

People aren't afraid of the change, they just don't like the change.

Well I was terribly happy about vlc 0.9.2, the alpha 1 version of intrepid ibex, the newest pidgin, the newest updates, the newest network manager, the *NIX initiative.

Linux, F/OSS is BAD, very BAD. I dislike everything, BUT i have freedom to choose, freedom to make things better, freedom to help, freedom to involve, freedom to make things EXACTLY like I want. And my PRIVACY is MY PRIVACY on a *NIX system.

[cmat]

FOSS is more about the developer's than the users. It's the philosophy that keeps them going. And yes, regular people don't care at all about it. Most people couldn't care less if their code was open since they don't edit code in the first place. The biggest problem with FOSS is that it's developer centric. People are running away from windows at a biblical pace to the linux desktop which was a developers playground. Microsoft made an empire off catering to the user not only the developer. People that develop for the linux desktop need to follow that.

[I-75]

Four Valid Reasons to use Windows

1. Homesick for the Blue screen of death.

2. Enjoy having to update and reboot.

3. Enjoy having to re validate after installing a new video card.

4. Like to pay $80 for anti virus per computer per year.

5. Enjoy having to re install Winamp after Windows crashed it.

6. Enjoy sending error reports to Microsoft.

[Giant Speck]

Four Valid Reasons to use Windows

1. Homesick for the Blue screen of death.

2. Enjoy having to update and reboot.

3. Enjoy having to re validate after installing a new video card.

4. Like to pay $80 for anti virus per computer per year.

5. Enjoy having to re install Winamp after Windows crashed it.

6. Enjoy sending error reports to Microsoft.

Hey, guys! I learned a lesson in math today!

4 = 6

Isn't it awesome!

[Canis familiaris]

(1) You require software such as MS Office, Photoshop, 3dsMax, and other commercial software.
(2) Your Hardware is not supported for *nix based OS.
(3) You Play Games a lot and your games do not run on WINE or you are unwilling to use WINE.
(4) You like the way Windows works and you could set it up to that extent that you don't face much problems and as such there is no such requirement for using an alternative OS.

[fiddledd]

Four Valid Reasons to use Windows

1. Homesick for the Blue screen of death.

2. Enjoy having to update and reboot.

3. Enjoy having to re validate after installing a new video card.

4. Like to pay $80 for anti virus per computer per year.

5. Enjoy having to re install Winamp after Windows crashed it.

6. Enjoy sending error reports to Microsoft.

In response to your 6 points (you really must improve your math skills ;))

1. Not seen BSOD in years, and anyway it's prettier than a Black Screen.

2. Updating is required by every OS, reboot not always needed, and when it is it takes all of 35 seconds with Vista.

3. Dunno about that one, my Laptop has integrated GFX.

4. All the Security software I use is free, most is FOSS.

5. Yeah, I'm sure Windows broke it, Winamp was not to blame at all.

6. Yeah it's really difficult disabling the Error Reporting Service, you have to click disable.

How did I do, am I playing the game right?

/me waits for it to be his turn again.

[Sycron]

Well I have Windows on a 8GB SDHC, and Ubuntu on a 4GB SSD. Windows is Windows XP only with FOSS. I use a computer for cross-platform programming, algorithms, ubuntuforums.org, etc.

I can do that with windows too. But still Ubuntu is doing this job better and faster than windows. At 630Mhz I can have compiz fusion running and the latest version of the OS with the newest softwares at an amazing speed. I don't need any anti-virus softwares that will make my computer sluggish at 630Mhz.

[lisati]

1) The video editing software I prefer doesn't come in a "Linux friendly" version
2) I don't have the patience to check out the copy I have with Wine
3) As good as some of the offerings are, the Linux-friendly video-editing and DVD-authoring software I've looked at isn't quite what I want
4) I interact with Windows users, and might need to try to replicate problems they experience.

Having said that, I'll stick with Ubuntu for the rest of the stuff I do....

[Sycron]

Well, I miss Adobe After Effects, and Microsoft Visual Studio, but I can live without them. However I don't own a copy of Adobe After Effects.

[karellen]

imho these type of threads are rather pointless, some will come and bash Windows, some will defend it, some will exaggerate things in one direction (aka how bad Windows is), others will try to be reasonable and militate for the freedom of choice, some will call the others zealots, the others will respond by waving labels like "brainwashed" and "MS drones"...and the list could go on forever

[Battie]

imho these type of threads are rather pointless, some will come and bash Windows, some will defend it, some will exaggerate things in one direction (aka how bad Windows is), others will try to be reasonable and militate for the freedom of choice, some will call the others zealots, the others will respond by waving labels like "brainwashed" and "MS drones"...and the list could go on forever

I think it's amazing that when "Please do not use this as a bashing area" is written in bold on the forum header threads like this one still thrive.

I'm really pretty disturbed to see so much FUD peppered in with the helpful threads. Even more amazing are that so many come in bashing aspects of Windows and I almost never see a technical discussion of why it is so. Shouldn't such a technically minded community be interested in digging into Windows to find out why the things they don't like are the way they are?

[rockface]

I think it's amazing that when "Please do not use this as a bashing area" is written in bold on the forum header threads like this one still thrive.

I'm really pretty disturbed to see so much FUD peppered in with the helpful threads. Even more amazing are that so many come in bashing aspects of Windows and I almost never see a technical discussion of why it is so. Shouldn't such a technically minded community be interested in digging into Windows to find out why the things they don't like are the way they are?

'Shouldn't such a technically minded community be interested in digging into Windows to find out why the things they don't like are the way they are?'

This is a good point and I do respect the likes of karellen, Giant Speck, fiddledd and many others that disagree with much of what I say. Most Linux users, by their nature, are more curious and open minded than their Windows counterparts.

What bugs me is that much of the Windows centric advice provided here is superior to the majority of advice given by specialist and approved Microsoft sources (IRC, MSN, IM and Microsoft Knowledge Base). Microsoft screwed up Windows as a creditable platform, but on a Linux forum the good people provide various methods of unscrewing Windows, an awesome act of generosity.

I have yet to see a Linux section (distro independent) on a Redmond sanctioned forum. Am I wrong in that observation?

[I-75]

I have yet to see a Linux section (distro independent) on a Redmond sanctioned forum. Am I wrong in that observation?

http://thevistaforums.com/index.php?showforum=103

[Battie]

'Shouldn't such a technically minded community be interested in digging into Windows to find out why the things they don't like are the way they are?'

This is a good point and I do respect the likes of karellen, Giant Speck, fiddledd and many others that disagree with much of what I say. Most Linux users, by their nature, are more curious and open minded than their Windows counterparts.

What bugs me is that much of the Windows centric advice provided here is superior to the majority of advice given by specialist and approved Microsoft sources (IRC, MSN, IM and Microsoft Knowledge Base). Microsoft screwed up Windows as a creditable platform, but on a Linux forum the good people provide various methods of unscrewing Windows, an awesome act of generosity.

I have yet to see a Linux section (distro independent) on a Redmond sanctioned forum. Am I wrong in that observation?

Oh yes! Despite my rant I don't want to discount the help of the good folk who are willing to lend their expertise. This is one of the first places I would think to go if I have a Windows question.

[Sycron]

Well, right now i'm on a Windows machine. It's fast, 25secs from cold boot (nlited version), but I can fell that is not for me. I need a much more advanced OS. Ubuntu was for me. There was no need for further configuration.

[L815]

1. Visual Studio
2. Software updates are independent
3. Driver support
4. All the software I could ever want is on here, INCLUDING all the OSS software I use :)
5 <- bonus track: Vista is fast on my l-top
Btw, why do people always complain about updating and rebooting?
Afaik, I have to do the same in Linux. I can wait on both OSes, and can go about my things. Updates are updates for a reason...


Anyway, don't get me wrong. I love linux, and am just responding to the OT. I just hope sometime in the near future there will be a port of Visual Studio (ya right haha), or something as good as it for Linux.

[drdread]

ignorance
fear
comfort zone
wot's that

[fiddledd]

ignorance
fear
comfort zone
wot's that

You might want to elaborate in case people think you are insulting Windows users by calling them ignorant.

Of course I don't believe for one minute that you would suggest such a thing.

[drdread]

whoever coined the term windoze was a very smart person,
but we all come to some realisation eventually,
see my current post in .....
wot brort u tu ubuntu
the ability is there, but - is the willingness!

[fiddledd]

whoever coined the term windoze was a very smart person,
but we all come to some realisation eventually,
see my current post in .....
wot brort u tu ubuntu
the ability is there, but - is the willingness!

Whoever coined the phrase "windoze" was probably 12 years old, and thought it was incredibly smart, as did others in the same age group.

I still don't get what you are actually saying, but I think I can guess.

[Sycron]

I don't knwo for what reasons but I think I'm gonna burn my computer, cuz neither unix neither Windows is not a complete OS.

I'll start with my CD's with illegal content. Hope that the microwave will resist. :)

[Northsider]

ignorance
fear
comfort zone
wot's that
You might want to elaborate in case people think you are insulting Windows users by calling them ignorant.

Of course I don't believe for one minute that you would suggest such a thing.
Yes, please elaborate.

What am I scared of? What am I ignorant of? What comfort zone? Juh? I am perfectly comfortable and happy with BOTH Linux and Windows.

[pseudo-random]

I'm happy with running Windows and Ubuntu. I've got the two dual-booting and have to say they both have stengths and weaknesses. Having used Ubuntu exclusively for nearly 2 years now and experienced the late nights compiling kernel modules for hardware and then doing it all again once the new kernel update breaks everything I thought I'd give Vista a try again.
It isn't bloated yet, but what has struck me is how little effort it takes to get everything working compared to ubuntu. Sure, being a bash shell guru makes admin quick and easy but thats like saying being a racing driver makes going to the shops easier.

Coming from a security background I'm going to stick my neck out and say that my Vista install is safer than my Ubuntu OS for the following reasons:
1) You can still get root on a default Ubuntu box by just booting into safe mode.
2) The software distribution system is vulnerable to abuse by hackers and is trusted blindly by users. Every other thread has a "sudo apt-get install app1 app2 app3.." instruction, often from untrusted sources. Even the trusted ones must be taken with a pinch of salt.
3) As an experiment I played around with some very simple linux reverse shells which worked flawlessly. On windows I would expect an alert such as "revshell.exe wants access...". Appreciate this can be mitigated against with IDS, Iptables etc but for the average home-user this isn't what they need to be doing.

I think Ubuntu and the open source movement is great but I also think its arrogant to dismiss the market leader no matter how shrewd their business tactics are.

[Battie]

Coming from a security background I'm going to stick my neck out and say that my Vista install is safer than my Ubuntu OS for the following reasons:
1) You can still get root on a default Ubuntu box by just booting into safe mode.
2) The software distribution system is vulnerable to abuse by hackers and is trusted blindly by users. Every other thread has a "sudo apt-get install app1 app2 app3.." instruction, often from untrusted sources. Even the trusted ones must be taken with a pinch of salt.
3) As an experiment I played around with some very simple linux reverse shells which worked flawlessly. On windows I would expect an alert such as "revshell.exe wants access...". Appreciate this can be mitigated against with IDS, Iptables etc but for the average home-user this isn't what they need to be doing.

I think Ubuntu and the open source movement is great but I also think its arrogant to dismiss the market leader no matter how shrewd their business tactics are.

The safe mode thing has long confused me too. They say not to activate the root, but if you DON'T activate it and set a password, you'll get into safe mode without being prompted for anything.

Even the recovery console on the Windows CD will make you supply the Administrator's credentials before it will let you use its (very limited) command line.

[CrazyArcher]

One of the main reasons I still heavily use Windows is Office2007. I've given OO a try, but they didn't convince me as applications for any serious work. Couldn't stand Calc for longer than 3 minutes, because it didn't have the features present in Excel - useful features, for the sake of discussion.

[Jaxco]

IF I didn't run windows, I would be S.O.L. for gaming for sure... I know, i know, wine and VMware :roll: Fact is, I was happy with Linux (other than gaming) until the last upgrade of Ubuntu - on one machine, the new version caused it to hibernate without any possibility of recovery because of the video card chipset.(An issue discussed in length here) On another machine, a different video card is not yet supported by linux drivers.

My choice? Go back to what WORKS every time and wait until these issues are resolved. I have been a computer user since the days of the punch card. My first PERSONAL computer was a TRS-80 when we had to write EVERY program and our hard drive was a cassette player... I am just old enough now that I just want to go the route of least resistance. I could dig into the command-line stuff all day long - but WHY? Totally unnecessary this day and age.

very similar to my first computer:

http://www.greentreegazette.com/uploads/Remember/trs80unit.jpg

[Sycron]

What ages. I were six years old and using a CIP computer. It was about 4Mhz. The cassetes almost never worked lol :).

[Kernel Sanders]

The only valid reason to use Windows is if YOU want to. It's all about personal choice :KS

[SoulRyuu]

Reasons ...

1. Hardcore Gaming
2. Image/Video Editing
3. If you enjoy being dominated
4. To have a reason to take your pc to the hot repair store woman.

[Sycron]

4 is a true reason. Why don't you try and go to her telling to repair an Ubuntu installation?

[rockface]

Reasons ...

1. Hardcore Gaming
2. Image/Video Editing
3. If you enjoy being dominated
4. To have a reason to take your pc to the hot repair store woman.

Number 3, yes I do...but that is for my pleasure.

Number 4, see response to number 3.

[ModdTaco]

2) graphic design or other work-related software (but even Pixar uses linux to make their movies, so...).

I was using Adobe's crap until they tried to tell me my Photoshop/Illustrator keys were pirated. I have the damb boxes for frigg sakes. Now I have converted and use the very charming Ubuntu-Studio.


3) enjoy malware.
Epic LOL

[Frak]

I was using Adobe's crap until they tried to tell me my Photoshop/Illustrator keys were pirated. I have the damb boxes for frigg sakes. Now I have converted and use the very charming Ubuntu-Studio

I read them the code my copy gave me and they verified it in about 2 minutes. It's not THAT big of a deal. Of course, unless you really are using a pirated version, then you would have a problem.

[ModdTaco]

They addmitted their mistake after a few days of bugging them. I then returned the software. I really did like them.. I did...

But now I need to know would some softer software make my hard drive harder?