Passwords

[Peter6218]

One of the things I find infuriating about every one of the Linux distro's I've tried is the incessant demand for passwords.

Quite bluntly it is insane on a single user machine to keep having to type in the password every time you want to do anything out of the ordinary.

Absolutely should NOT be necesary !!

Ubuntu in any flavour is as bad as the rest.

It should NOT be necessary!!

[JetskiDude911]

I don't mind it.

[bp1509]

Well if you like you can go back to Windows where all accounts have full admin access by default and enjoy your virus and spyware problem as a result of that.

[Peter6218]

Neither of you are addressing the problem or posing a solution. Try again.

[OutOfReach]

I for one, like it.
It's better than being full admin (or root) all the time and possibly causing harm to your system

[JetskiDude911]

Neither of you are addressing the problem or posing a solution. Try again.

That's just the thing, I don't see it as a problem. I don't have to do it that often, and I'm so used to typing in my password I really don't think about it. I know what actions are going to cause the system to ask for my password so I'm prepared. I find it to be a rather good security feature.

It makes you stop and think twice before you do something that could potentially harm your system.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Neither of you are addressing the problem or posing a solution. Try again.

The password is there for a reason, its for your safety.
Really you want to have spyware/ addware/ viruses again go back to windows.

[Peter6218]

Well that's an opinion.

I don't. That's also an opinion but for instance on Xandros you rarely had to enter a password and it was just as safe as Ubuntu.

Windows doesn't require them but is just as safe as Ubuntu if you have a good firewall and anti-virus.

If the Linux community ever wants to become mainstream these little annoyance have to be addressed.

[init1]

If you really want to, you can make a root account and log into that. It's a lot less secure, however, and an overall bad practice.

[Peter6218]

If you really want to, you can make a root account and log into that. It's a lot less secure, however, and an overall bad practice.

Again you are evading the issue. Keep trying to think!

[p_quarles]

Moved to Recurring Discussions. Keep it civil, everyone.

The smartest way to run Windows (and the way most workplaces with competent IT staffs do, in fact, run Windows) is with a password locked Admin account. So, to say that this is somehow specific to Linux is incorrect.

As for passwords being an annoyance on a "single user" system, there are a few things to consider:
1) If you are connected to the internet, it's not a single user system.
2) The password is only requested when you are doing things that are considered system administration.
3) It's relatively easy to tell the system to stop asking for the password, but not recommended.

As for "becoming mainstream" -- creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS. That will just be seen as a bargain basement deal, and never as a genuine alternative as it actually is. Sacrificing a good security practice for the sake of making Windows users more at home doesn't make any sense in the long run.

[corney91]

Well, if the problem is purely logging in, you could use the auto-login feature. It would be insane not to have a sudo password though ;)

[clanky]

Again you are evading the issue. Keep trying to think!

Actually that one is a valid solution, you won't have to put the password in all the time and if, as you said you are on a single user system then it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

The other option is to have a very simple password (can't remember if there is a minimum character limit?) which would make it a lot easier to enter, although this would be at best a workaround rather than a solution.

I am sure that I have rad of a way to avoid this having to enter your password all the time, have you tried a forum search?

[mr.propre]

Windows doesn't require them but is just as safe as Ubuntu if you have a good firewall and anti-virus.

That's not true, a firewall and a ant-virus program is just a program to protect the user against his or her own mistakes or attacks from outside. Never think that you are completely safe when using these under windows, there is much more that comes to see when talking about computer security.

Today all modern operating systems use a system like Linux, think about Vista and Mac OSX.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Really I dont see why the password is such an issue, its just a different practice then what windows does but in truth its the proper practice.
By maintaining a login password and secondary passwords the system becomes much more secure and safe.
Really if you want to take the risk and use the root account by default be my guest. and ignore all the warnings we will give you.
Sigh some people.

[clanky]

Not sure if this will do what you want, but maybe worth looking into?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=919642&highlight=password

[Peter6218]

"creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS"

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do.

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.

Never going to happen as long as the prevalent thinking displayed here continues.

You all need a new paradigm. The base product Linux is excellent, now do the things that will allow a Windows user, 90% of the installed OS's remember, to migrate to Linux with the absolute minimum of re-learning or annoyance.

Don't do that and it will remain forever a realm for geeks and nerds!

[aysiu]

What are you doing that you keep needing to enter a password all the time?

I don't understand, really.

Do you like to edit system files in your free time? Do you install and uninstall software five or six times a day?

Perhaps you should create a launcher or keyboard shortcut for gksudo nautilus and be done with it.

And Ubuntu is nowhere near as bad as the rest of the distros or even Mac OS X. Ubuntu has a sudo timeout, which means you can run commands for 15 minutes without needing yet another password prompt.

[SunnyRabbiera]

"creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS"

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do.

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.

Never going to happen as long as the prevalent thinking displayed here continues.

You all need a new paradigm. The base product Linux is excellent, now do the things that will allow a Windows user, 90% of the installed OS's remember, to migrate to Linux with the absolute minimum of re-learning or annoyance.

Don't do that and it will remain forever a realm for geeks and nerds!

So you want Linux to have auto logins and have instant root access?
Do you want viruses?
Spyware?
Addware?
Popups?
Trojans?
because the windows way of things allows stuff like that to happen.

[aysiu]

"creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS"

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do. Well, no. The statement you're quoting is saying "We want to become a mainstream OS, but we will do so by some way other than creating an imitation of Windows."

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.

Never going to happen as long as the prevalent thinking displayed here continues.

You all need a new paradigm. The base product Linux is excellent, now do the things that will allow a Windows user, 90% of the installed OS's remember, to migrate to Linux with the absolute minimum of re-learning or annoyance.

Don't do that and it will remain forever a realm for geeks and nerds! Like Mac OS X, you mean? Would be, by your logic.

Mac OS X operates differently from Windows. And Mac OS X prompts you for a password when you make system changes.

[aysiu]

So you want Linux to have auto logins and have instant root access?
Do you want viruses?
Spyware?
Addware?
Popups?
Trojans?
because the windows way of things allows stuff like that to happen.
If the Asus Eee PC implementation of Xandros becomes more popular, that's exactly what will happen.

[SunnyRabbiera]

If the Asus Eee PC implementation of Xandros becomes more popular, that's exactly what will happen.

Indeed, Xandros isnt a great distro and never was.

[p_quarles]

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do.

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.
I respectfully disagree. They are trying to create something that is easy to use for non-technical people without compromising the advantages of a GNU/Linux approach to building an OS. While I would agree that all mainstream Linux distros go out of their way to duplicate many of the more popular functions in Windows, that is not the same as trying to imitate it. Doing away with an administrative password would be just as counterproductive as adding a "registry" to replace the /etc filesystem.

Never going to happen as long as the prevalent thinking displayed here continues.
Be fair, now: the people posting here aren't the ones who will ultimately decide what features are added and taken away from Ubuntu in the future.

[lukjad007]

My "password" on my home PC is 3 characters long, each right next to each other. I don't bother with a long password because it would give me a false sense of security. The password is there to warm me when I am about to do some system level action that could possibly damage the OS or to stop someone or something from just running a dangerous command without my consent.

[corney91]

"creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS"

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do.

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.


No. Just no.

Ubuntu allows you to become an admin for 15 minutes to make a few quick changes. In Windows you have to log out and relogin as admininstrator - which is quicker? ;)

(Is that how to do it in Windows? I can't actually remember to be honest :p)

[aysiu]

No. Just no.

Ubuntu allows you to become an admin for 15 minutes to make a few quick changes. In Windows you have to log out and relogin as admininstrator - which is quicker? ;)

(Is that how to do it in Windows? I can't actually remember to be honest :p)
Well, that's the safe way to do it in Windows.

The default way is to just be administrator all the time, which is why malware proliferates easily in Windows environments.

Of course, if you install SuRun, you can get sudo-like functionality in Windows (P.S. folks, Run as... is not a practical solution).

[lukjad007]

What is SuRun? Is it the same as SuDown et al.?

[aysiu]

What is SuRun? Is it the same as SuDown et al.?
It's like SuDown but better.

[Peter6218]

"Be fair, now: the people posting here aren't the ones who will ultimately decide what features are added and taken away from Ubuntu in the future."

For which we may all be thankful, possibly.

That said I've been hit as hard on Ubuntu my malware as on XP. So I tend to ignore the fruitcakes who prattle on about Win being so dangerous!! Ain't so.

But to get back to my original point for the single user all this repititious password thing is ********!!

Every time Ubuntu sends out an update for instance they want a password before it will install.Hello ?? I wouldn't get the Update if I wasn't running Ubuntu. So just download and install and cut the caca !

[lukjad007]

There is such a thing as not wishing to update. I may not wish to update to a newer version if I have not researched the updates. I do not wish to have just anyone update it. Also, most people will not do what needs to be done for security, even when it is needed. So the security must either be on all the time (like Ubuntu) or off all the time (like Windows). If you show someone who claims to be, or is, knowledgeable, then someone who is not may just read how to change it and ignore the warnings about the danger. You do not want this.

[p_quarles]

That said I've been hit as hard on Ubuntu my malware as on XP. So I tend to ignore the fruitcakes who prattle on about Win being so dangerous!! Ain't so.
Windows isn't inherently dangerous, it just has a bad security model that has slowly been replaced over the past decade with an increasingly UNIX-like security model. These features being requested by the, umm, "fruitcakes" who work in IT administration and whose jobs rely on the systems for which they are responsible not being compromised.

But to get back to my original point for the single user all this repititious password thing is ********!!
Single user, huh? Did you miss my earlier remark that any computer connected to the internet isn't really a single user computer? That's an important point, though it may not be a convenient one for the position you are staking out here.

Every time Ubuntu sends out an update for instance they want a password before it will install.Hello ?? I wouldn't get the Update if I wasn't running Ubuntu. So just download and install and cut the caca !
So you would rather let Canonical control your computer?

[bp1509]

Neither of you are addressing the problem or posing a solution. Try again.

I did post a solution. Go on back to Windows. There, problem solved.

Or you can run as root and have a inherently insecure system.

Fact of the matter is the way file permissions and root access has been handled has been tried and proven since the 70s.

Microsoft attempted to break that mold b/c things like root access, decent file permissions, etc.. made computers "too difficult for the common man".

And now there's an entire anti-virus, anti-spyware industry created to think Microsoft for that decision. Now plenty of people spend more time fixing their computers than using them, and i'm not talking about techie people who know how to avoid such things.

The permission system is there for security and it's not a bug. It's not a problem and if you don't like it you're more than free to use something else.

[bp1509]

Indeed, Xandros isnt a great distro and never was.

Has nothing to do with Xandros. It has everything to do with the EEE PC's implementation of it. The security on those things has been scaled back to ridiculous levels in terms of what is needed to gain root or sudo access.

No wonder it's the only preinstalled linux distro to come with an anti-virus.

[Peter6218]

I didn't say anything about updating to a Newer version. I'm talking about the weekly updates sent out for most versions.

'Sheesh!!

[bp1509]

"creating an imitation Windows is not the way to become a mainstream OS"

But that is exactly what Canonical and others are trying to do.

Create a Windows like environment with the stability Linux.

Being easy to use doesn't make it "like windows".



Never going to happen as long as the prevalent thinking displayed here continues.

Frankly I think you just enjoy whining. My sister who's the dumbest person in the world with computers, uses Xubuntu and loves it. Both my parents do as well.

And other than system updates, they don't need the root password. Most people wouldn't. In fact, most people on Windows should run as a restricted account, and use an Admin account when they need admin tasks, but outside of the workplace you rarely see that.



You all need a new paradigm. The base product Linux is excellent, now do the things that will allow a Windows user, 90% of the installed OS's remember, to migrate to Linux with the absolute minimum of re-learning or annoyance.

Don't do that and it will remain forever a realm for geeks and nerds!
Why do people need a new paradigm? B/c you, one single person, has a complaint about a technology that has proven secure for over 30 years in Unix and Unix-like systems?

And for where Linux remains, you're no authority on that matter and apparently no expert either. I'll trust the developers and major corporations investing in Linux before a stranger on a message board about where linux is going and why.

[Peter6218]

I did post a solution. Go on back to Windows. There, problem solved.

Or you can run as root and have a inherently insecure system.

Fact of the matter is the way file permissions and root access has been handled has been tried and proven since the 70s.

Microsoft attempted to break that mold b/c things like root access, decent file permissions, etc.. made computers "too difficult for the common man".

And now there's an entire anti-virus, anti-spyware industry created to think Microsoft for that decision. Now plenty of people spend more time fixing their computers than using them, and i'm not talking about techie people who know how to avoid such things.

The permission system is there for security and it's not a bug. It's not a problem and if you don't like it you're more than free to use something else.

And guess what?? YOU can't log in as root !! Feisty and Gutsy won't allow it and I don't like Hardy for other reasons. Get with the program.

Windows does update and of late they are more trouble than they are worth. Shut them off. Windows right now, for my purposes is the preferred system. I wish it wasn't but there it is.

[Sub101]

Every time Ubuntu sends out an update for instance they want a password before it will install.Hello ?? I wouldn't get the Update if I wasn't running Ubuntu. So just download and install and cut the caca !

Vista is now, more or less, doing the same thing here. You cannot update Vista without being asked to 'Run as Adminstrator' and waiting for the screen to load. They are adopting this as it increases protection

[bp1509]

And guess what?? YOU can't log in as root !! Feisty and Gutsy won't allow it and I don't like Hardy for other reasons. Get with the program.

Windows does update and of late they are more trouble than they are worth. Shut them off. Windows right now, for my purposes is the preferred system. I wish it wasn't but there it is.

Someone advocating shutting off updates that may fix security exploits in windows, isn't someone's opinion i'm going to trust. I really hope you don't hand that advice out to people.

Secondly, you can enable root in ubuntu. It's not hard, look it up. And what's so complicated about sudo -s? sudo -s leaves you in the root environment until you exit it.

[smartboyathome]

Guys, stop feeding the troll. This person has had several solutions handed to him, but he doesn't want those, and keeps on trolling. So I am requesting that you guys just not talk to them.

[lswest]

Guys, stop feeding the troll. This person has had several solutions handed to him, but he doesn't want those, and keeps on trolling. So I am requesting that you guys just not talk to them.

+1 I think a mod should just close this thread, it's not serving a purpose if the OP ignores any suggestion offered, especially in his current manner.

[p_quarles]

+1 I think a mod should just close this thread, it's not serving a purpose if the OP ignores any suggestion offered, especially in his current manner.
Very well. Closed.