Seamless "installation" of virtualbox in ubuntu

[spandanj]

Hi,

This IS a complain.:(

Why do things in the "linux" world always have to be complicated for the end user. Let me cite you my recent experience. I installed virtualbox 2.0.2 on my ubuntu 8.04. Getting xp to run on it was not a problem. However, to set up USB support and shared folder was a BIG hassle!

Now, most of you will say that it is NOT a big hassle. All you have to do was edit /etc/ ____ files. Yes. But, an "end user" should not have to do that. THAT is why they have ".deb" packages which install the software for you, like any ".exe" in windows. The virtualbox deb package should have done all that for me, leaving me with a simple prompt asking me whether to turn on/off the usb support.

THIS is the reason what keeps ordinary people away from ubuntu/linux. My friends all like ubuntu. they would pick ubuntu over windows anyday IF they didnt have to confront such "hassles". :)

So, whoever is listening, these are my 2 cents.

[Sef]

Moved to Community Cafe because of poll.

[cardinals_fan]

I'm very happy with my OpenSolaris. No problems whatsoever.

[LaRoza]

THIS is the reason what keeps ordinary people away from ubuntu/linux. My friends all like ubuntu. they would pick ubuntu over windows anyday IF they didnt have to confront such "hassles". :)


Windows isn't so easy, people are just used to its limitations. If people had to install the OS they wanted, they'd not pick Windows most of the time ;)

VirtualBox isn't Linux. It is an application by another company. It is free.

Why do I have to recompile irssi to get it to work in Windows? Windows is so bad... I can install it over the network with a single command in Linux.

(Before people complain, irssi does have a windows compilation I think, but not all apps do)

[cookieofdoom]

Windows isn't so easy, people are just used to its limitations.I agree. The biggest problem for people who might try switching over, I find, is that they don't have time to learn another operating system. It's not that Windows is any easier to use, it's just that they already know it.

[LaRoza]

it's just that they already know it.

Or rather, don't try to do what they don't know how to do. Most Windows users don't know anything other than a few routines.

[Darkade]

As it's said really often in this forums, "One does not fit all" I really like Ubuntu and I'm comfortable using the command line, it's so powerful. However if you don't like using the command line but like linux you could try openSUSE or PClinux OS both distros that claim to be totally user-friendly and don't really relay on the command line

[OutOfReach]

I'm one with the command line, so I voted no.
If everything was automated, it would become less...powerful, if you will.

[spandanj]

I agree with you.

What I am complaining about - virtualbox in linux supporting other OS - and other things which you can do in linux, are usually NOT done in windows by the general public. So, that sort of causes a 'dis-comparison' since what do you compare this problem with "what" problem in windows. Issri - or watever (i m not techie), is one I guess.

But, my point is, increasing more "click-and-point" philosophy in linux atleast for software that the general population on linux would use. I would consider virtualbox a common software that a general population.

Look, I m only arguing from a perspective a new linux user. I am not arguing the advanced linux users who use linux to run servers, develop computer language, programs, etc. Because I do understand that for those complicated stuff you would need command line, even in windows.

[Darkade]

I am not arguing the advanced linux users who use linux to run servers, develop computer language, programs, etc. Because I do understand that for those complicated stuff you would need command line, even in windows.
I don't think you need to be a "power-user" to need or use the command line, my girlfriend is not an advanced user and she uses the command line for some tasks, like installing software, or runing some programs as root, as basic as nautilus, (she has some sensible data that I adviced to change the owner and all permissions to root only)
Anyway, as I said there are some distros that do not require so much command line usage, really try openSUSE and PClinux OS.
I like to mess with my computer but I don't run a server or anything like that. Also I find command line instructions easier to follow (after all if you know you can trust those instructions you just copy-paste) than a lot of screenshots

EDIT and as for increasing the "point and click" several software has graphic and text front-ends (like transmission, vi, pidgin/finch) and that's software we often use. And vmware, nor virtualbox are common software, for real, I know of no one that uses it, if you need to use windows many times you reboot, or perhaps you install your software trough wine, a windows emulator is not a good option if you as me

[KOld Iron]

Hi,
... Now, most of you will say that it is NOT a big hassle. All you have to do was edit /etc/ ____ files. Yes. But, an "end user" should not have to do that. THAT is why they have ".deb" packages which install the software for you, like any ".exe" in windows. The virtualbox deb package should have done all that for me, leaving me with a simple prompt asking me whether to turn on/off the usb support.

...
So, whoever is listening, these are my 2 cents.

Two questions:
1. Does the Windows version of Virtualbox behave like you describe (like offering a simple prompt)? I don't know myself, so I am asking you, because only then the comparison would be valid.

2. This behavior is application specific, so you should address your complaint to the creators of Virtualbox. Why do you blame Linux, just because the DEB package is not behaving as you would like?

It's okay to criticize things, but it should be done in a fair way. As some previous posters already said, most users are just so used to Windows, that they don't realize, how much time they sometimes invest to get a problem resolved or a program configured the right way.

[cardinals_fan]

I agree with you.

What I am complaining about - virtualbox in linux supporting other OS - and other things which you can do in linux, are usually NOT done in windows by the general public. So, that sort of causes a 'dis-comparison' since what do you compare this problem with "what" problem in windows. Issri - or watever (i m not techie), is one I guess.

But, my point is, increasing more "click-and-point" philosophy in linux atleast for software that the general population on linux would use. I would consider virtualbox a common software that a general population.

Look, I m only arguing from a perspective a new linux user. I am not arguing the advanced linux users who use linux to run servers, develop computer language, programs, etc. Because I do understand that for those complicated stuff you would need command line, even in windows.
I find it easier to type "slapt-get -i *program*" than to click through a wizard. But maybe I'm crazy.

[spandanj]

Ok, I got a perfect example to support my belief that configuration should be wizard based instead of command line

So, I own magicjack, a VoIP telephone. I didnt work in virtualbox-winxp. I thought it had to do with networking. So, i started looking up on that. I found the problem could be solved if i set vbox networking from NAT to host interface using bridging. I set upon setting up the bridge. I did not know what I was up against.

I came upon this page to help me set it up: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox#8.04%20Hardy. So, I followed it's instruction of setting a bridge connection between vbox and host. Took me about 10 mins which involved change system files such as etc/network/interface, etc. installed bridge-utilities, etc. Ran several commands which I had no clue what it was doing except it was part of the 15-20 step process. I kept my cool running all the steps and being careful doing them just as they said (they looked weird since I am a newbie--a normal person who does not want to and shouldn't have to know how a linux operating system works).

When all was done and finished, magicjack still did not work in vbox. So, I said, I will just go back to NAT since it had no other problem.

I restarted the computer...

WOAH, it now tells me something like

kinit: boot image missing
resume normal boot
user tty1...something

my screen size had gone from 1280x800 to very low. all effects were off. I was scared shitless. Not only did I not know what went wrong, I had no idea wat to do fix it.

so, i re-edited all system files to the way they were. uninstalled bridge utilies. and restarted. still the same problem.
-->restarted again, chose 'recovery' ubuntu. did all the recovery-->restart. NOW, it worked fine.

So, the GIST of the story is: I had no knowledge/understanding of what the steps were telling me to do. I did not know how to reverse the effects if I wished to uninstall in future. And, it almost broke my computer setting up a bridge connection. Had it been windows, how would I have set up a bridge connection? Network connections-->right click-->bridge connection. that is it.


So, WHY can't we have a wizard to do mundane tasks like setting up bridge connections? or a script? The question is not WHY the command line? Because there might be benefits to command line to a programmer. The question is WHY NOT a wizard to make it easy? and I will tell you why NOT the command line....because guys like me can and possibly will mess up a lengthy procedure like this with no way of getting out or fixing it (or atleast not knowing how to).

So, tell me, why not a wizard or a script?

[cardinals_fan]

So, tell me, why not a wizard or a script?
Wizards don't grow on trees...

[cardinals_fan]

I appreciate your point, but it doesn't need to be posted in three separate threads...

[howefield]

So, whoever is listening, these are my 2 cents.

You are overcharging...

[Canis familiaris]

Wizards don't grow on trees...

Unless the tree is bash and zenity...

[mikewhatever]

Hi,

This IS a complain.:(

Why do things in the "linux" world always have to be complicated for the end user. Let me cite you my recent experience. I installed virtualbox 2.0.2 on my ubuntu 8.04. Getting xp to run on it was not a problem. However, to set up USB support and shared folder was a BIG hassle!

Now, most of you will say that it is NOT a big hassle. All you have to do was edit /etc/ ____ files. Yes. But, an "end user" should not have to do that. THAT is why they have ".deb" packages which install the software for you, like any ".exe" in windows. The virtualbox deb package should have done all that for me, leaving me with a simple prompt asking me whether to turn on/off the usb support.

THIS is the reason what keeps ordinary people away from ubuntu/linux. My friends all like ubuntu. they would pick ubuntu over windows anyday IF they didnt have to confront such "hassles". :)

So, whoever is listening, these are my 2 cents.

I am not quite sure why Vbox deb for Ubuntu can't enable USB, however, posting a complain here is not helpful. AFYI, vbox is not Linux, and it is developed by Sun, so write to them.

[spandanj]

I appreciate your point, but it doesn't need to be posted in three separate threads...

........just emphasizing.....you should have been where I was couple hours ago. i thought i had lost all my data!

[spandanj]

........just emphasizing.....you should have been where I was couple hours ago. i thought i had lost all my data!

plus, i am one of the guys who tell ppl to use ubuntu, and then it screws...so i take it personally.

[hyper_ch]

Ran several commands which I had no clue what it was doing

That most often leads to havoc... no matter what the OS is.

[spandanj]

That most often leads to havoc... no matter what the OS is.

Man, Focus on the POINT that I am making here. The Issue is that

1) even though I have used ubuntu for a year now, I still can fundle up my whole ubuntu installation if I make mistakes in system files...

2) installing a simple 'bridge' connection but involving 15-20 steps in command line WILL increase chances of any newbie of "fundling" ubuntu.

3) lack of proper "uninstall". Proper as in easy to do, easy to follow.

Finally, I am NOT blaming ubuntu. I am complaining about the entire linux universe where the end-user is, well, considered in the end of all priorities. If softwares would only properly dedicate and be diligent in providing proper software, the end-user would not have to suffer.

And, if i may request, do not take one sentence out of context, like McCain!

[technotitclan]

first off linux is a choice, if you don't like how it runs then go back to windows. we use command because it is simpilar for most linux ubuntu users. second your best off ditching magicjack. it sells your ip address to just about everyone and leaves you open to infection. i've hade to help several people try to remove it and the unfortunate side affects. ususaly ending up reloading the whole sys. and some one also mentioned to me once that the ability to sell your ip address is in the user agreement.

[hyper_ch]

Man, Focus on the POINT that I am making here.
I did... you ran commands on which you had no clue what they were doing... the could also just have been a sudo rm -Rf /* or sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd*....

1) even though I have used ubuntu for a year now, I still can fundle up my whole ubuntu installation if I make mistakes in system files...
You can do this even after 10 or 50 years...

2) installing a simple 'bridge' connection but involving 15-20 steps in command line WILL increase chances of any newbie of "fundling" ubuntu.
A "bridge" is advanced networking... there's no such thing as a "simple" bridge. Besides, what newbie wants to have a bridge anyway?

3) lack of proper "uninstall". Proper as in easy to do, easy to follow.
There is... use software in the repos or .debs... but then, you chose not to.

[spandanj]

I did... you ran commands on which you had no clue what they were doing... the could also just have been a sudo rm -Rf /* or sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd*....


You can do this even after 10 or 50 years...


A "bridge" is advanced networking... there's no such thing as a "simple" bridge. Besides, what newbie wants to have a bridge anyway?


There is... use software in the repos or .debs... but then, you chose not to.

Respectfully,

1) I called bridge simple b/c you can 'right-click' in windows to set up a bridge connection. I didn't intend to comment on the actual complexity of bridge networking.
2) 10-50 years down ... Yea, I agree with you on that one. It's my ignorance to blame, not the system files...However, I didn't want to have to touch 'em system files, I HAD to. I rather have not.
3) I did NOT *not* choose to use repos, or debs. God knows, I try not touch anything outside repos unless absolutely necessary. But, I didn't know you had anything in debs or repos to install bridge connections. If there is, could you point me to it please.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate everyone's willingness to help me out with the issue.

Personally, I have realized that the bottom line is that I am on linux, and this is what linux is all about: cutting-edge software, free, community-based, and command lines... I only have to get used to it, right! Afterall, I spent a decade to get use to Win xp...I get it.

[cardinals_fan]

bridge-utils is in the repos, if it would help

[lukjad007]

You should know that spamming doesn't really help. I know you don't view it a spamming, just "spreading the word", but it is really, really, annoying, and it is against the CoC. However, here is my beef with your post. Yes, you had trouble. Yes, you have the right ot vent. But you are angry, or at least frustrated. Never post when you are angry. I did once or twice and regretted it.

[spandanj]

You should know that spamming doesn't really help. I know you don't view it a spamming, just "spreading the word", but it is really, really, annoying, and it is against the CoC. However, here is my beef with your post. Yes, you had trouble. Yes, you have the right ot vent. But you are angry, or at least frustrated. Never post when you are angry. I did once or twice and regretted it.

Yes, Master.

[loell]

making wizards!? naahhh.. ;)

if ever that is done, the next thing to be blame is, how limited the options and information given to troubleshoot it.

also

Ran several commands which I had no clue is always a [-X

[Sef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukjad007 http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5827122#post5827122)
You should know that spamming doesn't really help. I know you don't view it a spamming, just "spreading the word", but it is really, really, annoying, and it is against the CoC. However, here is my beef with your post. Yes, you had trouble. Yes, you have the right ot vent. But you are angry, or at least frustrated. Never post when you are angry. I did once or twice and regretted it.

Yes, Master.

Please drop the sarcasm. lukjad007 is making some very valid points.

I appreciate your point, but it doesn't need to be posted in three separate threads...


They have been dealt with.

[spandanj]

making wizards!? naahhh.. ;)

if ever that is done, the next thing to be blame is, how limited the options and information given to troubleshoot it.

also

is always a [-X

Yea:roll:, but its Not a no-no in case when the instruction are coming from the community page on Ubuntu help site. if it were the case that I shouldn't run any commands I don't know what they would do or how they work, I probably couldn't do/install half the things in ubuntu. I run em because I chose to trust the source--where I get the commands from... I would not run a command that I read in just one thread....cuz in that case i am being stupid in not knowing wat it does and trusting just one unreliable source. But, if the commands are posted on Ubuntu's help site itself whom I trust:-k, I run them because I chose to trust. get my point?[-( Your point "no-no" is fallible[-X in light of the fact that you should be able to trust what you get from Ubuntu help site.

I love writing on ubuntu forums...):P:cool:

[cardinals_fan]

Yea:roll:, but its Not a no-no in case when the instruction are coming from the community page on Ubuntu help site. if it were the case that I shouldn't run any commands I don't know what they would do or how they work, I probably couldn't do/install half the things in ubuntu. I run em because I chose to trust the source--where I get the commands from... I would not run a command that I read in just one thread....cuz in that case i am being stupid in not knowing wat it does and trusting just one unreliable source. But, if the commands are posted on Ubuntu's help site itself whom I trust:-k, I run them because I chose to trust. get my point?[-( Your point "no-no" is fallible[-X in light of the fact that you should be able to trust what you get from Ubuntu help site.

I love writing on ubuntu forums...):P:cool:
By the way, that link to the Ubuntu Help pages is broken. Would you mind posting a valid one?

[spandanj]

Please drop the sarcasm. lukjad007 is making some very valid points.



They have been dealt with.

:evil:You did not just tell me to drop the sarcasm!:evil: Is that a rule on this form? Man, I am not seeing the "openness" mentality here in the open-source world if you ask me. We are a community here, not a court-room....gosh. You want me to not complain so much. I agree. You want me to not post 3 threads. I agree and I wont (I will cool down first). But,when you start dictating what I write, and how I write when it's not disrespectful to anyone, I DISagree.

Yes, I do agree with lukjad007. I was being honest in addition to being sarcastic. Please don't tell me what not to say again[-(, unless its warranted.

And remember we are community. dont be hostile. love thy neighbour.:oops:\\:D/:razz:

thanks.

[loell]

By the way, that link to the Ubuntu Help pages is broken. Would you mind posting a valid one?

the OP is referring to this community contributed page

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox#Create%20A%20Bridge

[spandanj]

ubuntu help link for vbox

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox#8.04%20Hardy

[spandanj]

ok, so i followed ALL of the following steps...

1. Create a permanent bridge by editing /etc/network/interfaces
2. Declare virtual interfaces which will be used by VirtualBox by editing /etc/vbox/interfaces
3. Configure networking in VirtualBox
4. Edit One System File On The Host Machine
5. Create A Bridge

I did not do 'automate the process'. by that time i figured this wasnt going so well...heh. so i stopped.

[loell]

Yea:roll:, but its Not a no-no in case when the instruction are coming from the community page on Ubuntu help site. if it were the case that I shouldn't run any commands I don't know what they would do or how they work, I probably couldn't do/install half the things in ubuntu. I run em because I chose to trust the source--where I get the commands from... I would not run a command that I read in just one thread....cuz in that case i am being stupid in not knowing wat it does and trusting just one unreliable source. But, if the commands are posted on Ubuntu's help site itself whom I trust:-k, I run them because I chose to trust. get my point?[-( Your point "no-no" is fallible[-X in light of the fact that you should be able to trust what you get from Ubuntu help site.


you are reading a contributed page by the way, actually I should be grateful if I where you, the page exist to guide people in doing things by some good samaritan without compensation.

trusting but clueless is entirely up to you..

[loell]

ok, so i followed ALL of the following steps...

1. Create a permanent bridge by editing /etc/network/interfaces
2. Declare virtual interfaces which will be used by VirtualBox by editing /etc/vbox/interfaces
3. Configure networking in VirtualBox
4. Edit One System File On The Host Machine
5. Create A Bridge

I did not do 'automate the process'. by that time i figured this wasnt going so well...heh. so i stopped.

heh, so you vented instead of asking help? that's not nice..

[spandanj]

Loell, man....what's up with your attitude.

I am not personally attacking you. You are personally attacking me.

"trusting but clueless is entirely up to you.." <--what else was I suppose to do? spend a year learning linux OS and networking in and out?

"heh, so you vented instead of asking help? that's not nice.."Does your statement mean that I shouldn't be trusting the community page, but instead seek help in forums first. THEN, what's the point of having a "community" page?

"grateful if I where you" You know, I was grateful when I started using that page. But, sadly, I wasn't by the time I reached the end of those instructions. You already know why that happened. Nonetheless, just so we are clear: I am grateful for the help I do get in general including ubuntu forums, community pages and your expert advice.

[loell]

Loell, man....what's up with your attitude.

I am not personally attacking you. You are personally attacking me.

i'm cool actually.. ;) you're the one who is being sarcastic and all.


"trusting but clueless is entirely up to you.." <--what else was I suppose to do? spend a year learning linux OS and networking in and out?

nope, a short verification by asking what's happening with the steps you took, would have been more sensible.


"heh, so you vented instead of asking help? that's not nice.."Does your statement mean that I shouldn't be trusting the community page, but instead seek help in forums first. THEN,

the steps you took is not noob proof, i would have encountered same experience as you do had i took the same steps of command.

but then i would have ask further, see if anybody knows what could be wrong.

what's the point of having a "community" page?

to share something what might be useful to others, anybody can share.
it is not without fault and subject to the limitations of the reader's knowledge.

[spandanj]

I am just frustrated that (from vbox end-user guide) if I wanted to bridge connect in win xp virtual box, its simple click-and-select. On the other hand, I have to do all this stuff in ubuntu...

[loell]

I am just frustrated that (from vbox end-user guide) if I wanted to bridge connect in win xp virtual box, its simple click-and-select. On the other hand, I have to do all this stuff in ubuntu...

I totally understand that. you can contact the page creator though, see if he had any clues with your setup. https://launchpad.net/~medigeek

or try asking help in irc freenode in #vbox channel.

[spandanj]

so much work....I am a med student.

[vikramaditya]

The question is WHY NOT a wizard to make it easy?
I agree. I made this wizard button with a button wizard.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/Ginchiest/wizard.png

I coulda made it myself, but not as fast. :)

[spandanj]

I agree. I made this wizard button with a button wizard.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/Ginchiest/wizard.png

I coulda made it myself, but not as fast. :)

Hah! ok. nice one.:lolflag:

[lukjad007]

@OP
I wish to point out that I really was not trying to be sarcastic. I was just relating my personal point of view. I wanted to point out that I had done something similar, (not here perhaps, but other places) and regretted it. If I seemed to have come off harshly, I apologize.

[Riffer]

Lets see if I got this right. You're running XP in a Virtual environment on Ubuntu. On XP you have no networking so you want to "bridge" networking over from Ubuntu. You found a HOWTO and tried it, now your settings on Ubuntu are screwy. And now you're ranting that things should be "easier", have a wizard and such for noobs.

First off, virtualization is advanced stuff, whether in Windows or Ubuntu, you use it at your own risk. Altering config files is advanced stuff, you do so at your own risk. Also when you do alter config files one slight mistake can cause havoc. Chances are you made a mistake, check and recheck your steps.

Some suggestions.

A tried and true method of preserving your data is to put it on a separate partition, I would set it as a "fat32" so that both Ubuntu and Windows can easily read it. A lot of people also suggest that you put your own /home folder in another partition, either way you data is safe if you have to reinstall your OS.
Also check out VMWare, when you first setup your guest OS it asks if you want "bridging" and I believe that you can change that setting at a later date with a couple of clicks.

I have to agree with the others here, while ranting is ok we've all been there, doing so in 3 threads etc. is not good. Chances are is that you've screwed up somewhere along the way. At this point I would undo what you've done and either try again or do something different.

[spandanj]

@OP
I wish to point out that I really was not trying to be sarcastic. I was just relating my personal point of view. I wanted to point out that I had done something similar, (not here perhaps, but other places) and regretted it. If I seemed to have come off harshly, I apologize.

oh, you didn't come out harshly, at all.

[aysiu]

I don't know what bridging is, but I think the OP has a point. If it's possible to create a wizard instead of a 15-step process that requires editing many configuration files, there should be a wizard (whom it's up to to create this wizard is another story - I don't think you can just demand there be a wizard).

That said...

1) Even if you have a wizard, if the wizard isn't programmed properly, or if there are risks associated with having different configurations, it's very possible that the wizard itself could render your system unbootable. So instead of having a badly programmed wizard for which you'd have to file a bug report, you got a badly written tutorial that may need some tweaking or just a good old disclaimer.

2) Any time you mess with a lot of configuration files, you should back up everything first. As a matter of fact, whether you're messing with configuration files or not, you should back up everything first. Check out my Linux Live CD Award page (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/livecdaward/). These are Windows users who were probably using only wizards (no configuration file editing, no terminal use), and they still had their computers crash (i.e., Windows won't boot - I don't see anything there that indicates a hardware failure).

Fortunately, there are a lot of good tools for backing up Ubuntu (and not just your personal files; the entire Ubuntu installation). You can find more details here:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/backup

So the bottom line is: yes, you're right. There should be an easy right-click wizard for setting up bridging (whatever that is), and there may be something wrong with the tutorial you followed, and that should be fixed. But, no, that might not have prevented the breakage you saw, and you should always do regular backups.

[Riffer]

Just checked the user manual for VirtualBox. It seems that Vbox should be able to use the host Os's network capablities from the start. To use bridging is a "WORK AROUND" in those rare cases that the default doesn't work.

[spandanj]

bottom line is:

ubuntu will never get mainstream with 1) command line, 2) lack of software integration (which runs exactly opposite to software "choice" philosophy of linux world),

everyday people can't handle installing bridge connection in vbox. And everyday people don't know how to get all the features of msn live in emesene or amsn which don't necessarily even have those features -- webcam. don't tell them to use a different chat software in linux, because it's about software integraton - MOST Of their friends are already using msn live, that's why. They don't want choice, but software integration that works with the Common (as in "large in number") population.

Solution? ==> Without eliminating the software "choice" philosophy, there is only one solution: MORE and better open standards shared by (wishfully) all linux proprietors and code-makers. We already have a few examples....openoffice. More/better standards will help take focus away from "integrating' and making it work to producing softwares which are actually feature-full, and competitive.

My 2 cents.

[cardinals_fan]

bottom line is:

ubuntu will never get mainstream with 1) command line, 2) lack of software integration (which runs exactly opposite to software "choice" philosophy of linux world),

everyday people can't handle installing bridge connection in vbox. And everyday people don't know how to get all the features of msn live in emesene or amsn which don't necessarily even have those features -- webcam. don't tell them to use a different chat software in linux, because it's about software integraton - MOST Of their friends are already using msn live, that's why. They don't want choice, but software integration that works with the Common (as in "large in number") population.

Solution? ==> Without eliminating the software "choice" philosophy, there is only one solution: MORE and better open standards shared by (wishfully) all linux proprietors and code-makers. We already have a few examples....openoffice. More/better standards will help take focus away from "integrating' and making it work to producing softwares which are actually feature-full, and competitive.

My 2 cents.
"Everyday people" can't handle installing a bridge connection in Vbox on any OS.

[aysiu]

If you want better open standards, you're talking to the wrong folks.

Go to talk to Microsoft and tell them to open up MSN Live and Hotmail and all their products.

[aysiu]

"Everyday people" can't handle installing a bridge connection in Vbox on any OS.
I don't even know what a bridge connection is.

[spandanj]

If you want better open standards, you're talking to the wrong folks.

Go to talk to Microsoft and tell them to open up MSN Live and Hotmail and all their products.

True say.

THEY are not open standard.....We ...AREEE.

You see i m willing to ditch msn live/hotmail any sec, IF open source softwares (other chat programs) had features like webcam and other stuff like msn live messenger. Sadly, they dont.

[aysiu]

True say.

THEY are not open standard.....We ...AREEE.

You see i m willing to ditch msn live/hotmail any sec, IF open source softwares (other chat programs) had features like webcam and other stuff like msn live messenger. Sadly, they dont.
I've never used MSN Live Messenger before. What's so special about it?

Skype for Linux works just fine with my webcam.

[spandanj]

skype - i ll give that a try if its free.